Aussie Ray Gen 4 / CRF450R 06

[RideRed]

I think when they are welded and motor is bolted in they will be plenty strong enough.

Looks to be!

[KE 336]

My welder has been in the aluminum working / welding business for 24 years. He builds sprint cars mostly, but does many other things as well. He said that the only time aluminum needs to be heat treated is after the initial annealing. So in effect, the only time it would need to be heat treated for strength is after its been heated to bend. If that makes sense.

Quick facts from my welder himself:
1. 6061-T6 needs annealed to bend, 6063-T6 does not.
2. 6061-T6 is stronger in a straight line, but not as strong when bent.
3. It will run you approx. $70-$150+ per rail to anneal 6061-T6 just so that you are able to bend it. 6063-T6 is NOT easy to bend, but responds far better to bending then 6061-T6. At $150+ each, you better be darned sure about your bends.
4. And for the biggest reason for why he recommended 6063-T6 over 6061-T6 is that after you go through all the effort and cash to anneal, bend & heat treat the 6061-T6, it will end up weaker than it was before the process began, effectively making the 6061-T6 equal to or lesser than in strength to the 6063-T6. Once it has been through both heat processes and has been bent, it will never be as strong as it was before. So its a waste of your money to go through the process and have almost the same exact thing as the 6063-T6.

Oh shit, here we go with this again. Could you at least change it to "quick OPINION of your welder? Much of what you state is just bull shit!
I say this as a HEAT TREATER of 30 years. 100hp, stick to your plan because you are on the right track.

["SOLID Bro!!"]

My welder has been in the aluminum working / welding business for 24 years. He builds sprint cars mostly, but does many other things as well. He said that the only time aluminum needs to be heat treated is after the initial annealing. So in effect, the only time it would need to be heat treated for strength is after its been heated to bend. If that makes sense.

Quick facts from my welder himself:
1. 6061-T6 needs annealed to bend, 6063-T6 does not.
2. 6061-T6 is stronger in a straight line, but not as strong when bent.
3. It will run you approx. $70-$150+ per rail to anneal 6061-T6 just so that you are able to bend it. 6063-T6 is NOT easy to bend, but responds far better to bending then 6061-T6. At $150+ each, you better be darned sure about your bends.
4. And for the biggest reason for why he recommended 6063-T6 over 6061-T6 is that after you go through all the effort and cash to anneal, bend & heat treat the 6061-T6, it will end up weaker than it was before the process began, effectively making the 6061-T6 equal to or lesser than in strength to the 6063-T6. Once it has been through both heat processes and has been bent, it will never be as strong as it was before. So its a waste of your money to go through the process and have almost the same exact thing as the 6063-T6.

Oh shit, here we go with this again. Could you at least change it to "quick OPINION of your welder? Much of what you state is just bull shit!
I say this as a HEAT TREATER of 30 years. 100hp, stick to your plan because you are on the right track.

OH ! SNAP !!

[100hp honda]

My welder has been in the aluminum working / welding business for 24 years. He builds sprint cars mostly, but does many other things as well. He said that the only time aluminum needs to be heat treated is after the initial annealing. So in effect, the only time it would need to be heat treated for strength is after its been heated to bend. If that makes sense.

Quick facts from my welder himself:
1. 6061-T6 needs annealed to bend, 6063-T6 does not.
2. 6061-T6 is stronger in a straight line, but not as strong when bent.
3. It will run you approx. $70-$150+ per rail to anneal 6061-T6 just so that you are able to bend it. 6063-T6 is NOT easy to bend, but responds far better to bending then 6061-T6. At $150+ each, you better be darned sure about your bends.
4. And for the biggest reason for why he recommended 6063-T6 over 6061-T6 is that after you go through all the effort and cash to anneal, bend & heat treat the 6061-T6, it will end up weaker than it was before the process began, effectively making the 6061-T6 equal to or lesser than in strength to the 6063-T6. Once it has been through both heat processes and has been bent, it will never be as strong as it was before. So its a waste of your money to go through the process and have almost the same exact thing as the 6063-T6.

6061 is nearly double the strenght of 6063. your saying if you anneal and re-heat treat 6061 its lost nearly half the strenght, or just a partial amount ? it may lose some, i doubt much though. maybe ill have a chunk of my extra tube tested after the re-heat treat . and another thing, the moment "your" welder fired up that tig, he basically did a crude annealing to all areas of your cradle tube around the weld, causing it to lose basically all its strenght or atleast 80%, i bet he forgot to tell you that . from what i read it can gain a small amount of strenght back due to natural againg, a very small amount. maybe you misunderstood what your welder said, cant image a guy with 24 years experience saying some of that stuff. call a heat treater and ask them, they know by far more than your welder

[King of the 500]

Going to try 6063 and 6061 this weekend
What is the radius for an 05 crf 250 frame on the tubes
I see one of you say that you can bend 6061 t6 with out heat?
Is that true?

[100hp honda]

ridered i forgot to say but im not bashing your technique, or anyone elses. the nice thing about these conversions is theres many ways to go about it, depending on skills, financial situation, avalability of materials, availability of tools , etc etc etc. regardless of the technique used, i hope everyone rides safe

[RideRed]

My welder has been in the aluminum working / welding business for 24 years. He builds sprint cars mostly, but does many other things as well. He said that the only time aluminum needs to be heat treated is after the initial annealing. So in effect, the only time it would need to be heat treated for strength is after its been heated to bend. If that makes sense.

Quick facts from my welder himself:
1. 6061-T6 needs annealed to bend, 6063-T6 does not.
2. 6061-T6 is stronger in a straight line, but not as strong when bent.
3. It will run you approx. $70-$150+ per rail to anneal 6061-T6 just so that you are able to bend it. 6063-T6 is NOT easy to bend, but responds far better to bending then 6061-T6. At $150+ each, you better be darned sure about your bends.
4. And for the biggest reason for why he recommended 6063-T6 over 6061-T6 is that after you go through all the effort and cash to anneal, bend & heat treat the 6061-T6, it will end up weaker than it was before the process began, effectively making the 6061-T6 equal to or lesser than in strength to the 6063-T6. Once it has been through both heat processes and has been bent, it will never be as strong as it was before. So its a waste of your money to go through the process and have almost the same exact thing as the 6063-T6.

Oh shit, here we go with this again. Could you at least change it to "quick OPINION of your welder? Much of what you state is just bull shit!
I say this as a HEAT TREATER of 30 years. 100hp, stick to your plan because you are on the right track.

This is just what my welder told me. I'm not stating it to be fact. Calm down

[RideRed]

Just two quick indisputable facts:

1. 6061-T6 is more brittle than 6063-T6 as it will shear before flexing.

2. There is a difference on paper, but no one here will ever be able to notice a difference once welded up. No one is going to test PSI strength ratings. (At least I hope you have better things to do, like actually ride)

[100hp honda]

6061 T6 is brittle. i was having a chat with the heat treater and he mentioned something about it being classified as not bendable or something to that affect. obviously it will bend but i think what he meant was its not recomended to be bent while still in the T6 condition. obviously it can snap, and i think some how it also changes the strength properties but thats getting pretty deep for me because i dont know alot about that technical metallurgy shit.

[RideRed]

6061 T6 is brittle. i was having a chat with the heat treater and he mentioned something about it being classified as not bendable or something to that affect. obviously it will bend but i think what he meant was its not recomended to be bent while still in the T6 condition. obviously it can snap, and i think some how it also changes the strength properties but thats getting pretty deep for me because i dont know alot about that technical metallurgy shit.

Thanks for giving an honest and impartial answer to the 6061-T6 love fest. I don't know much about metallurgy shit myself. I just want people to know that there ARE other options out there. I am tired of reading the bullshit some people spew that: 6061-T6 is the STRONGEST therefore BEST, or the ONLY TYPE TO USE, basing that information off of what others say or what they read on a metals spec sheet that they don't even know how to interpret themselves . A frame section or cradle made or 6063-T6 or 6061-T6 is only as good as its welds.

[RideRed]

Aussie Ray,

My apologies for this. Your build thread got out of control and off-topic fast.
Please let me know what you want me to delete and I will.
Sorry,
John

[Mik329]

Going to try 6063 and 6061 this weekend
What is the radius for an 05 crf 250 frame on the tubes
I see one of you say that you can bend 6061 t6 with out heat?
Is that true?

Seems like everyone is using 4.5 or 5.5 radius. I can get a 5.5 for my JD2 bender so I was thinking of trying this as well one of these days

[AlisoBob]

I'll stand by my statement that if the tubing your using will bend in a machine, it will bend when you case a boulder, rock, log, or whack anything else hard and unmoveable.

The OEM lower cradle tubes I retained in my build WILL NOT BEND. Their harder than fuk....I retained them for that reason, cuz I seem to whack shit all the time.

[King of the 500]

Seems like everyone is using 4.5 or 5.5 radius. I can get a 5.5 for my JD2 bender so I was thinking of trying this as well one of these days

Cool I will have to give that a try I have 10 feet of each to try.

[speedway501]

Sorry for poor quality pictures. They are taken on my phone.

[King of the 500]

That looks goooood man keep it going..

[speedway501]

Thanks King.

RideRed, No need to apologise, all very interesting stuff.

[asteroid500]

Dont use photo bucket...
unless you plan on spending more time on there then you do banned or facebook...you'll soon find all your posted pictures will be gone & replaced with a shity logo and an "Inactive account caption"

[speedway501]

asteroid500, Thanks. I don't know much about it but i used "tinypic". See how it goes.

[speedway501]

[gregrobo]

I'll stand by my statement that if the tubing your using will bend in a machine, it will bend when you case a boulder, rock, log, or whack anything else hard and unmoveable.

The OEM lower cradle tubes I retained in my build WILL NOT BEND. Their harder than fuk....I retained them for that reason, cuz I seem to whack shit all the time.

so how does honda bend them then bob ?

[asteroid500]

FUCK ME RAY...you could drive a golf ball between your engine and frame
and from the fairway as well..those shaggy rail are good.

[speedway501]

asteroid500, I am useing Shaggy's head stays only. I had frame rails and engine mounts made up by mates. Purposely allowed plenty of clearence around exhaust for stroked motor or maybe even a CPI Top end later.

[asteroid500]

thats it...now we know were your son gets it...your fucked
What about running alcahol, nitros, and many of the other over the top mods going on over there....imagine doing a set of woops with NOS on....i'm crasy but i'd not do that

[AlisoBob]

so how does honda bend them then bob ?

They heat treat the whole frame after all the welding is complete.