Looks to be!speedway501 wrote:I think when they are welded and motor is bolted in they will be plenty strong enough.
Aussie Ray Gen 4 / CRF450R 06
RideRed wrote:My welder has been in the aluminum working / welding business for 24 years. He builds sprint cars mostly, but does many other things as well. He said that the only time aluminum needs to be heat treated is after the initial annealing. So in effect, the only time it would need to be heat treated for strength is after its been heated to bend. If that makes sense.
Quick facts from my welder himself:
1. 6061-T6 needs annealed to bend, 6063-T6 does not.
2. 6061-T6 is stronger in a straight line, but not as strong when bent.
3. It will run you approx. $70-$150+ per rail to anneal 6061-T6 just so that you are able to bend it. 6063-T6 is NOT easy to bend, but responds far better to bending then 6061-T6. At $150+ each, you better be darned sure about your bends.
4. And for the biggest reason for why he recommended 6063-T6 over 6061-T6 is that after you go through all the effort and cash to anneal, bend & heat treat the 6061-T6, it will end up weaker than it was before the process began, effectively making the 6061-T6 equal to or lesser than in strength to the 6063-T6. Once it has been through both heat processes and has been bent, it will never be as strong as it was before. So its a waste of your money to go through the process and have almost the same exact thing as the 6063-T6.
Oh shit, here we go with this again. Could you at least change it to "quick OPINION of your welder? Much of what you state is just bull shit!
I say this as a HEAT TREATER of 30 years. 100hp, stick to your plan because you are on the right track.
KE 336 wrote:RideRed wrote:My welder has been in the aluminum working / welding business for 24 years. He builds sprint cars mostly, but does many other things as well. He said that the only time aluminum needs to be heat treated is after the initial annealing. So in effect, the only time it would need to be heat treated for strength is after its been heated to bend. If that makes sense.
Quick facts from my welder himself:
1. 6061-T6 needs annealed to bend, 6063-T6 does not.
2. 6061-T6 is stronger in a straight line, but not as strong when bent.
3. It will run you approx. $70-$150+ per rail to anneal 6061-T6 just so that you are able to bend it. 6063-T6 is NOT easy to bend, but responds far better to bending then 6061-T6. At $150+ each, you better be darned sure about your bends.
4. And for the biggest reason for why he recommended 6063-T6 over 6061-T6 is that after you go through all the effort and cash to anneal, bend & heat treat the 6061-T6, it will end up weaker than it was before the process began, effectively making the 6061-T6 equal to or lesser than in strength to the 6063-T6. Once it has been through both heat processes and has been bent, it will never be as strong as it was before. So its a waste of your money to go through the process and have almost the same exact thing as the 6063-T6.
Oh shit, here we go with this again. Could you at least change it to "quick OPINION of your welder? Much of what you state is just bull shit!
I say this as a HEAT TREATER of 30 years. 100hp, stick to your plan because you are on the right track.
OH ! SNAP !!
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6061 is nearly double the strenght of 6063. your saying if you anneal and re-heat treat 6061 its lost nearly half the strenght, or just a partial amount ? it may lose some, i doubt much though. maybe ill have a chunk of my extra tube tested after the re-heat treat . and another thing, the moment "your" welder fired up that tig, he basically did a crude annealing to all areas of your cradle tube around the weld, causing it to lose basically all its strenght or atleast 80%, i bet he forgot to tell you that . from what i read it can gain a small amount of strenght back due to natural againg, a very small amount. maybe you misunderstood what your welder said, cant image a guy with 24 years experience saying some of that stuff. call a heat treater and ask them, they know by far more than your welderRideRed wrote:My welder has been in the aluminum working / welding business for 24 years. He builds sprint cars mostly, but does many other things as well. He said that the only time aluminum needs to be heat treated is after the initial annealing. So in effect, the only time it would need to be heat treated for strength is after its been heated to bend. If that makes sense.
Quick facts from my welder himself:
1. 6061-T6 needs annealed to bend, 6063-T6 does not.
2. 6061-T6 is stronger in a straight line, but not as strong when bent.
3. It will run you approx. $70-$150+ per rail to anneal 6061-T6 just so that you are able to bend it. 6063-T6 is NOT easy to bend, but responds far better to bending then 6061-T6. At $150+ each, you better be darned sure about your bends.
4. And for the biggest reason for why he recommended 6063-T6 over 6061-T6 is that after you go through all the effort and cash to anneal, bend & heat treat the 6061-T6, it will end up weaker than it was before the process began, effectively making the 6061-T6 equal to or lesser than in strength to the 6063-T6. Once it has been through both heat processes and has been bent, it will never be as strong as it was before. So its a waste of your money to go through the process and have almost the same exact thing as the 6063-T6.
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ridered i forgot to say but im not bashing your technique, or anyone elses. the nice thing about these conversions is theres many ways to go about it, depending on skills, financial situation, avalability of materials, availability of tools , etc etc etc. regardless of the technique used, i hope everyone rides safe
This is just what my welder told me. I'm not stating it to be fact. Calm downKE 336 wrote:RideRed wrote:My welder has been in the aluminum working / welding business for 24 years. He builds sprint cars mostly, but does many other things as well. He said that the only time aluminum needs to be heat treated is after the initial annealing. So in effect, the only time it would need to be heat treated for strength is after its been heated to bend. If that makes sense.
Quick facts from my welder himself:
1. 6061-T6 needs annealed to bend, 6063-T6 does not.
2. 6061-T6 is stronger in a straight line, but not as strong when bent.
3. It will run you approx. $70-$150+ per rail to anneal 6061-T6 just so that you are able to bend it. 6063-T6 is NOT easy to bend, but responds far better to bending then 6061-T6. At $150+ each, you better be darned sure about your bends.
4. And for the biggest reason for why he recommended 6063-T6 over 6061-T6 is that after you go through all the effort and cash to anneal, bend & heat treat the 6061-T6, it will end up weaker than it was before the process began, effectively making the 6061-T6 equal to or lesser than in strength to the 6063-T6. Once it has been through both heat processes and has been bent, it will never be as strong as it was before. So its a waste of your money to go through the process and have almost the same exact thing as the 6063-T6.
Oh shit, here we go with this again. Could you at least change it to "quick OPINION of your welder? Much of what you state is just bull shit!
I say this as a HEAT TREATER of 30 years. 100hp, stick to your plan because you are on the right track.
Just two quick indisputable facts:
1. 6061-T6 is more brittle than 6063-T6 as it will shear before flexing.
2. There is a difference on paper, but no one here will ever be able to notice a difference once welded up. No one is going to test PSI strength ratings. (At least I hope you have better things to do, like actually ride)
1. 6061-T6 is more brittle than 6063-T6 as it will shear before flexing.
2. There is a difference on paper, but no one here will ever be able to notice a difference once welded up. No one is going to test PSI strength ratings. (At least I hope you have better things to do, like actually ride)
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6061 T6 is brittle. i was having a chat with the heat treater and he mentioned something about it being classified as not bendable or something to that affect. obviously it will bend but i think what he meant was its not recomended to be bent while still in the T6 condition. obviously it can snap, and i think some how it also changes the strength properties but thats getting pretty deep for me because i dont know alot about that technical metallurgy shit.
Thanks for giving an honest and impartial answer to the 6061-T6 love fest. I don't know much about metallurgy shit myself. I just want people to know that there ARE other options out there. I am tired of reading the bullshit some people spew that: 6061-T6 is the STRONGEST therefore BEST, or the ONLY TYPE TO USE, basing that information off of what others say or what they read on a metals spec sheet that they don't even know how to interpret themselves . A frame section or cradle made or 6063-T6 or 6061-T6 is only as good as its welds.100hp honda wrote:6061 T6 is brittle. i was having a chat with the heat treater and he mentioned something about it being classified as not bendable or something to that affect. obviously it will bend but i think what he meant was its not recomended to be bent while still in the T6 condition. obviously it can snap, and i think some how it also changes the strength properties but thats getting pretty deep for me because i dont know alot about that technical metallurgy shit.
Seems like everyone is using 4.5 or 5.5 radius. I can get a 5.5 for my JD2 bender so I was thinking of trying this as well one of these daysKing of the 500 wrote:Going to try 6063 and 6061 this weekend
What is the radius for an 05 crf 250 frame on the tubes
I see one of you say that you can bend 6061 t6 with out heat?
Is that true?
I'll stand by my statement that if the tubing your using will bend in a machine, it will bend when you case a boulder, rock, log, or whack anything else hard and unmoveable.
The OEM lower cradle tubes I retained in my build WILL NOT BEND. Their harder than fuk....I retained them for that reason, cuz I seem to whack shit all the time.
The OEM lower cradle tubes I retained in my build WILL NOT BEND. Their harder than fuk....I retained them for that reason, cuz I seem to whack shit all the time.
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- asteroid500
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Dont use photo bucket...
unless you plan on spending more time on there then you do banned or facebook...you'll soon find all your posted pictures will be gone & replaced with a shity logo and an "Inactive account caption"
unless you plan on spending more time on there then you do banned or facebook...you'll soon find all your posted pictures will be gone & replaced with a shity logo and an "Inactive account caption"
"not speeding officer".....qualifying
CR250 97
CR500 AF 99 (in progress)
CR500 AF CR G-4
CR500 1985 true legend
RGV250 96 X2
GSXR600 07 TRACK BIKE
VH Commadore cup car (race)
CR250 97
CR500 AF 99 (in progress)
CR500 AF CR G-4
CR500 1985 true legend
RGV250 96 X2
GSXR600 07 TRACK BIKE
VH Commadore cup car (race)
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so how does honda bend them then bob ?AlisoBob wrote:I'll stand by my statement that if the tubing your using will bend in a machine, it will bend when you case a boulder, rock, log, or whack anything else hard and unmoveable.
The OEM lower cradle tubes I retained in my build WILL NOT BEND. Their harder than fuk....I retained them for that reason, cuz I seem to whack shit all the time.
only posties ride 4 stroke hondas
goldfields sheet metal fabrication
98 yzfr1
05 crf 500 race tech goldies
2010 rmz 500af
01 banshee
goldfields sheet metal fabrication
98 yzfr1
05 crf 500 race tech goldies
2010 rmz 500af
01 banshee
- asteroid500
- Posts: 1047
- Joined: January 5th, 2009, 1:29 am
- Location: Australia Melbourne
FUCK ME RAY...you could drive a golf ball between your engine and frame
and from the fairway as well..those shaggy rail are good.
and from the fairway as well..those shaggy rail are good.
"not speeding officer".....qualifying
CR250 97
CR500 AF 99 (in progress)
CR500 AF CR G-4
CR500 1985 true legend
RGV250 96 X2
GSXR600 07 TRACK BIKE
VH Commadore cup car (race)
CR250 97
CR500 AF 99 (in progress)
CR500 AF CR G-4
CR500 1985 true legend
RGV250 96 X2
GSXR600 07 TRACK BIKE
VH Commadore cup car (race)
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- Posts: 62
- Joined: November 28th, 2009, 9:11 pm
- asteroid500
- Posts: 1047
- Joined: January 5th, 2009, 1:29 am
- Location: Australia Melbourne
thats it...now we know were your son gets it...your fucked
What about running alcahol, nitros, and many of the other over the top mods going on over there....imagine doing a set of woops with NOS on....i'm crasy but i'd not do that
What about running alcahol, nitros, and many of the other over the top mods going on over there....imagine doing a set of woops with NOS on....i'm crasy but i'd not do that
"not speeding officer".....qualifying
CR250 97
CR500 AF 99 (in progress)
CR500 AF CR G-4
CR500 1985 true legend
RGV250 96 X2
GSXR600 07 TRACK BIKE
VH Commadore cup car (race)
CR250 97
CR500 AF 99 (in progress)
CR500 AF CR G-4
CR500 1985 true legend
RGV250 96 X2
GSXR600 07 TRACK BIKE
VH Commadore cup car (race)