guys, they are making it harder to hate thumpers...

[nmdesertrider]

f*ck single track, I got a dirt bike to go fast

[britincali]

f*ck single track, I got a dirt bike to go fast

My thoughts exactly!!!!

[sabreguy]

Keep it going fellas this is GREAT!!!!!

[teamdns]

Sheep now, the goat left me remember

did the goat leave you for stoffers?

FUCK YOU!!!

thanks paul

[MICK]

What's wrong with electric start M.F.D.B.?? I'd like me some push button action KTM is really on to something if you ask me...

I've tried damn hard to like fourstrokes. I wish I was faster on them than my bike. I'm sorry you ride a steelie, if I had to ride one of them I'd prefer a 450 too. Turns out a 500AF is what I'm fastest on...MOST of the time. I wish I was as fast on a 450 as you say you are M.F.D.B. But I have to be honest, apparently I'm not. My 500 is plenty easy to ride, hooks up great, handles like a son of a bitch and goes like hell on a MX track. I'd like to say it's because of the rider. But unfortunately all too many guys can blister some laps aboard my bike as well. Assured most people are faster on a fourstroke, but what about those who aren't? I'm not going to like them because everybody else is faster on them. Shit if I'm going to ride a bike I'm slower on I'm better off taking the front brake off the bike I got...

Bob that video of Robbie is f*@#ing sick! I'm probably gonna watch it until I go to sleep

[AlisoBob]

Robbie Maddison FMX's his 500AF, no problem.


Robbie is wearing the helmet cam


Damm, I wish someone would tell him he's just a distance jumper, and not an "A" rider....

I'll post it again.

Robbie is incredible.

[ou812]

My no bike is better or worse, they all shine in various areas and kinda suck in others. I love my CR500's and when they are in they right kinda of riding conditions they are Thee bike. But they are not a tight single track bike, ya they will do it but it is at a cost, they wear you out to fast and it is no fun to be bagged out an hour into a tough goat trail ride. this is the stuff that makes a 4 bangger shine and even the MX 450's are still to abrupt of power for a 5 or 6 hour ride.

While the bigger 4 bangger pay a price in weight should you need to pick it up, they more then make up for it by not wearing you out and the magic button is really nice when your really tired. Up here in the north west Rockies there is mostly tight some times nasty single track stuff and most around here ride 200 or 250's smokers or 250's 4 bangers. Being I still love power my compromise was this for the trails and it is one nice bike.

2008 450XCRW

[AlisoBob]

Jay Lewis owns more 500's than anybody, but he still loves his " Couch"....

[Ported&Polished]

Yup, I have a xr650r, it is a big heavy beast, but it plushes through single track. Yes, it is alot of work because it's heavy, but the motor is a tractor and allows me to go aggressive, or sit back and plow the field. If I was going to buy one bike just for the forest here, it would be a wr250 punched out to 290 or so.

[Uzi]

The exact same scenario is played out in the MX mags when they test AJ's bikes. Most are slower on it, when compared to a thumper, the fast guys are faster on the 500AF.

From a test on the 500 LE





The only reason 4-strokes are competitive is because of the displacement advantage they are given.
A truly fast guy will be faster on a 500 than a 450. And the funny part is when they test them against each other the slower (B and C class riders) have less of a difference between laps times. And that test was with 1 or 2 test riders that had never been on a 500!

And even if you get a 450 that's trouble free it will need rebuilt at some point and that going to cost 2 to 3 times what it would for the 500. All that for a couple seconds (if that) faster lap time?

I'm convinced you could ride a 500 in an aluminum frame just as fast for your riding level be it in A B or C class. Take the money that your saving on maintenance put it in your suspension, a gym membership, and fees to practice a couple times a week at the local track.





I know that some people won't believe it but I give this example:
My roommate has MFDB's exact bike a stock in every way except for ASV levers 2006 YZ450. We have grown up riding together since about the age of 14-15 until now, he's 22 I'm 23. We have spent alot of time at the same riding areas and are similar in weight, height and riding ability (he usually finished mid to upper places in the B class)

Our last time at the track he was beating me by probably 5-7 seconds a lap, but I was on my 85' steelie. I feel that if I was on an AF his 4-stroke would really offer him no advantage. When we ride single track and woods we are dead even for the most part. I really believe that I have an advantage in comfort my 85 feels like a couch compare to the 450.

Bottom line I have never had to stop from being worn out any sooner that he has. I know that the 450's are smooth but if you ride a 500 right and stay below the power band with correct gearing I feel they are comparable. I know if I flew through the trees all revved and on the pipe I'd be worn out in a hurry but if you ran a 450 at 9,000rpm you wouldn't be much better off.

I really don't think the 450's offer much advantage in comparable settings with comparable riders. Maybe a small amount but at my level of riding its not enough to really notice or be a factor when riding with my friends on 4 strokes. And its certainly not enough to justify the difference in cost of ownership.

Just my .02







Edit:

And yes I want to hear how riding a wheelie is hard on a motor or jumping 80ft on a track would prove that its used any harder than the next 450 that is after all what they where designed for. I'm don't mean to sound like a prick but I've seen a lot of bikes that spent what you could call a more than normal amount time riding wheelies.

A couple of guys I ride with can wheelie for more than a mile (yes literally and yes they are 4-strokes) on their dirt bikes. I have a Motorcycle and ATV repair degree and while I was in school we did service work on dozens of street bikes that where used specifically for stunting some where stripped of plastic, had cages and grind bars etc. These bikes spent plenty of time at odd angles wheelies and stoppies all that good stuff. I've never seen one then have an issue that was related to any of that.
I'd like to hear what you meant by that?

[100hp honda]

i was going to say same thing as the last guy: seems someone posted a magazine report on AP site of SH 500 vs 450 and the test riders were faster on the SH bike. anybody else read the same thing ? from what ive "read" , the 500 motor in AF chassis is just as fast or faster in all situations as 450, with competant jockeys of course. with that said, we know which motor lasts 20 years on original parts, costs a fraction of the price to buy, costs a fraction of the price to rebuild, makes 50hp in its very most detuned state. i see no comparison here

[AlisoBob]

I rode Justins 450, and liked the handling. But the motor was gutless.

The chassis specs (wheelbase, rake, trail, etc, etc) were identical to the CRF250X, so I knew what chassis I wanted to build.

My conversion is WAY easier to ride than the 97' steelie it replaced.

The thumper chassis is responsable for much of the perceived performance increase, not the motor.

[iggys-amsoil]

Its funny really. I watched my race bud do third gear starts this weekend, at first it looked like a bad start but by the time he got to the real first turn he was second up the hill. Was in first for a couple of laps til he swapped, stalled and trashed his radiator on Saint Helen. I guess what I'm getting at is he is the only one to tell me to stay with the 500 cause he knows its faster the his 450. 13.5:1 Dr. D pipe and Toyko carb mods oh and he runs straight race gas.

Everyone else is encourging me to get a 450. By the time I pay for all the mods I want/need I could get a SH.

Oh and Don Meada is the editor of TWMX.

[dannygraves]

you know, being at the MX track last weekend was a good first hand experience for me. I was quicker on Justins 450, no doubt. When Justin (a much more skilled rider than I) got on my 500, I could tell by watching that he was faster on my bike than on his 450, but it turned it into a much more agressive ride for him. on his 450, he was smooth, hitting the jumps, going through the turns... minimal roost. On my bike he was blowing roost everywhere, breaking it sideways everywhere. if there was a slight curve in the track, he was sideways and roosting like crazy.
in my opinion, the 500 is more fun, less forgiving, more power there for those who know what to do with it, less controlable for slow retards like myself...

[redrocket190]

I rode Justins 450, and liked the handling. But the motor was gutless. The chassis specs (wheelbase, rake, trail, etc, etc) were identical to the CRF250X, so I knew what chassis I wanted to build. My conversion is WAY easier to ride than the 97' steelie it replaced. The thumper chassis is responsable for much of the perceived performance increase, not the motor.

Earlier in the year I regularly rode an '06 CRF450R and my CR500R back to back. The engine is not gutless, but it feels that way - I guess it is the nature of the torque and to some degree the sound. It plain sounds flat compared to the crisp exhaust note of a two-stroke. Like many a novice I am pretty sure I would go faster on a 450, but just prefer the 500....

[redrider]

I have ridden many different bikes and I just can't do what I can on my 500 with them. Plus I like not shifting Yes, I would be much faster on a 200/250, but can I hang the ass end out @ 60mph around a big flat turn? Could I effortlessly pick the front up in 5th so I can negotiate big fast whoops on the same trail that has 1st geat stallers? No, atleast not with any confidence. The things i can do with the 500's power are fun. I ride for fun and don't get paid, but if I did, I hope i could do it on a 500.

Although I struggle with the 500 in the tight single track, I am confident it could be competitive with the right stuff. And yes, this is a very economical engine. If you don't need all the power, don't use it. My 500's powerband is very smooth. Its like I'm being pushed by the hand of god, rather than getting flicked by it. My bike is smoother than my buddies 08 crf250. If i run a gear or two high, it has less power too, it just doesn't stall out everywhere , and its quieter. You haters can say whatever you want while you're getting force fed some "ego" behind my mile-long armageddon of fire-hose roost.

= 491cc's everytime i get on
= everything else

Theres a reason this site exists. Its not because we wanted bikes to "look cool." We don't give a damn what people think of use as were passing them.

[87CR500Rider]

I bet that sparkling brand new state of the art fuel injected 4 stroke won't outpull your 500 with a carb and no power valve.

[redrider]

I bet that sparkling brand new state of the art fuel injected 4 stroke won't outpull your 500 with a carb and no power valve.

I don't know, 56hp? Thats pretty good. I haven't ridden one but I wouldn't underestimate their power. The better race would be time. Will the 450 still be running in 10 years? Maybe.

To be honest, I would have bought a 450 back when I was looking for a different bike if I would have had the money. After its all said and done, I spend 1200 on a bike that hasn't given me one ounce of trouble, and a ton of good times. Now that I've got a bunch of seat time on a bunch of good bikes, I can confidently say I own the best motorcycle ever made. (especially for the money). Even if a 450 is better, its not 6x better, so why would I spend that on one?

[britincali]

I wanna see the power curve on one of these new 56hp jobbies, Ill bet its only 56hp for 100rpm.

[Exnav]

I don't hate thumpers.
I hate the repair cost to the owner.
I hate what that does to the industry at the ownership level.
I hate watching racers kick these bikes and they not start.
I hate that there will be current and future generations that won't know about 2 strokes or know the feeling of when a 125 2 stroke comes on the pipe.
I hate that there won't be a Johnny O going head to head with 500's on a 125 at the Motocross Des Nations.

[JBaze]

I still maintain that the cost of ownership for a new four stroke, will be the deathblow for this sport. When I was 16, my parents co-signed a loan for me to buy my first new 500. Of course the bike only cost 2198 out the door. I can't see people who are average collar workers financing a bike that will be being rebuilt at the mear cost of 1000's and still making payments for 5 or 6 years on a bike that will be lucky to last for 1.

[MICK]

It's not the shear power numbers that are the problem IMO. It's the fact they don't start to make power until long after my 500 has signed off. I don't know how many of you that think you're faster on a 450 than your 500 are on a steel framed bike. But there is absolutely NO comparison between my bike and me on a fourstroke. And again IMO the 450s are totally gutless, without question. G-U-T-L-E-S-S. Why? 56hp is curtainly nothing to be ashamed about? Well it is when the fucking rider on the bike can't ride it agressively enough to keep the bike at that high of rpm! My bike may only produce 40hp? I don't know? But it produces alot of power right off an idle. And that's where I ride. It makes all the horsepower I need and then some below half throttle. I'm continually shifting 450s down and up and back down again to keep the fucker singing against the rev limiter. And I still don't go anywhere?? Still come up short on jumps, still bogging on landings and flaming out, still can't float the front end over chop etc. I'm just not a good enough rider to put the bastard in high gear and keep it on the rev limiter like it wants to be. I won't bitch and complain about how steller I think their handling is either . Better than a 2001 CR500? You bet! Better than a 500AF? Not a chance! Fourstrokes are garbage, and this 2009 model CRF450 is the epitome of that. My Honda four stroke powered lawn mower on the other hand has performed fantastic!

[JBaze]

Ha Ha Thats good Mick!. I have no complaints either about my generators or my mower they are top notch!

[Exnav]

Your point is valid in my mind about keeping them pinned against the limiter....and we all know what happens to an internal combustion 4 stroke engine that spends time in that operating range repeatedly. They go boom!

[M.F.D.B.]

You guys are ignorant, its that simple. If you havnt OWNED at least ONE thumper please leave your UN FOUNDED opinions somewhere else. I have a 450 thats been riddin hard as HELL since 06 when it was new and you know how many times ive rebuilt this "$1,000,000" top end? NOT ONCE!! Havnt even needed to adjust the FRIGGIN VALVES not ONCE. If any of you tumper experts doubt my riding capabilities or how hard I flog my bike ask someone who rides with me, or whatch some of my helmet cam vids and then STFU.

Thumpers have a bad name for 2 major reasons:

1) Old farts who are scared of change blowing things out of proportion.
2) Young idiot kids who dont properly maintain there shit and dont know how to ride fuggin there shit up.

I am UNBIASED as I own BOTH a 2 stroke and a thumper, I love them both, the 500 was my first dirt bike and ill always have a 500, but the thumper is way faster on anything but wide open shit/dunes.

Get a thumper, ride it for a couple YEARS so you know WTF you are talking about, then come back and give your opinions. Until then STFU already, you dont know WTF you are talking about so go drink some beer...