V Force III VS II comparison result.

[mega491]

My take on the V Force III over the V Force II is positive. It Comes in two pieces, the reed cage and an insert duct that fits in the cage so as to direct flow into the reeds. The V Force II does not have this duct insert. The duct insert did not match the stock CR 500 carb flange so I took time with a porting tool to match them up paying attention to the taper so as to maintain a nice flow as I opened it up, I relieved both pieces and finished up with a bead blast. I would not recommend installing without matching these pieces since the V Force III insert duct is much smaller than the stock CR 500 Honda flange opning and would choke the intake charge down significantly not to mention the turbulence that would occur.

I ride MX mainly and on the track the first thing I discovered was it was lean. I Closed down the air screw ¼ turn, lowered the clip one notch and one higher on the main (one circuit at a time by the way). It was a noticeable improvement over the V Force II from off-idle to WOT after these jet changes.

I Tried short shifting and revving. Both work impressively. Noticeably better torque for short shifts over the II and the motor over-revved noticeably better also over the II. On a very long uphill left hand sweeper I could short shift into 5th and pull the front wheel 18” off the ground as it accelerated to my braking point with my weight over the tank, leaving it in 4th had the same result. Both techniques got me to the corner equally it seemed. On the other end of the scale I noticed the motor could be slowed in 1st gear almost to a stop and without missing a beat, with a blip of the throttle would respond impressively, this would be a good trail rider benefit I think.

Just want to throw in the fact that in this section of track from corner to corner I could pull all the 450 4 strokes by 2 to 5 or 6 bike lengths depending on the rider. I am not including the obvious beginner riders, just those that were on the gas as evidenced by the popping of the rev limiters and volume of roost victims were ejecting as the 500 easily closed on them. Further please know I own and ride a 2006 YZF 450 and the CR 500 does feel that much faster in the seat of my pants and forearms. This rates as one of the fastest MX bikes I have ridden. Yes I know some of you have those insanely fast hill-climbers and dune machines I have read about here at this site. I am talking MX. For me when I gate in 3rd gear, feed in power with the clutch for 50’, then accelerate to WOT carrying the front wheel a foot or so in the air then click 4th and throttle back to avoid looping all the while sitting essentially on the tank with my 215 pound ass is plenty of power. MX and dirt track is all I have ever done as far as dirt bikes so my opinion is limited to that.

This test was on a fresh 91 500 with new everything from a new OEM crank/rod to every trans and main bearing, new seals and more with less than 10 hours on the engine in a Gen III CR 250 frame. The engine has stock port heights with transfers matched and opened up, boysen/boost ports opened way up, polished and matched the exhaust port and flange, I even hogged out and tapered those main bearing oiling holes in the transfer area, pro circuit pipe and silencer, CR 250 box, fresh stock coil, PWK quad vent air stryker, 50/50 mix of ERC 110 with 92 Chevron pump gas, Klotz R50 @ 40:1, and a fresh air filter.

Overall the V Force II works good but the V Force III is better in my opinion.



Gen III CR 500
84 CR 500
91 CR 500
2006 YZ 450F
4 1981 490 Maicos
80 CR 250
79 250 Maico
74 Rickman
67 Triumph TT Special
& more street Triumphs & Harley stuff

[MICK]

Thanks for the input! How old was your VF2 by the way?

[dannygraves]

very cool!

[mega491]

The VF II was installed new out of the box at initial assembly. It had less than 10 hours on it when I swapped in the VF III so it was fresh with very little use. This past weekend was the 1st ride with VF III. Just got it last week, maybe Wednesday or so. I think that duct insert is what makes the most difference personally.

Gen III CR 500
84 CR 500
91 CR 500
2006 YZ 450F
4 1981 490 Maicos
80 CR 250
79 250 Maico
74 Rickman 250
67 Triumph TT Special
& more street Triumphs & Harley stuff

[100hp honda]

sweet . did you buy it from a ebay store ? how fast did it get to your house and how much was it ?

[mega491]

5 days for $134.95 total including shipping......

[100hp honda]

cool. i like grinding on shit so this will be perfect . do you have link for where you bought it ?

[Ported&Polished]

I don't know why they don't just make the vf3 for our engines, in a year or two we will be the only folks keeping the reed companies in business.

[mega491]

Go to Ebay motors then Motorcycle Parts then search CR 500. Once you get CR 500 parts list go to that little search drop down and select highest price to lowest and you will find one on there right now for $134.95 with free shipping on the first page about 1/2 way down.

[mega491]

Ported & Polished,

I think it is purpose built for Honda CR 500 do to the bolt pattern, (I think only CRs have that pattern). I am assuming the insert is small so it will fit all years. I'm thinking possibly some years the carb flange throats were smaller than others. Its easier to take material away than add. Since I have only used V Force III on my current unit I am not sure. The VF II I replaced and the one in my 84 does not have the insert and bolts right in (other than some minor releiving for fit on the ext. sides of the cage). On all my past CR 500s if I changed reeds I used the Boyesen which is all one unit.

Gen III CR 500
84 CR 500
91 CR 500
2006 YZ 450F
4 1981 490 Maicos
80 CR 250
79 250 Maico
74 Rickman 250
67 Triumph TT Special
& more street Triumphs & Harley stuff

[100hp honda]

I don't know why they don't just make the vf3 for our engines, in a year or two we will be the only folks keeping the reed companies in business.

im sure the vf3 is model specific, because no other mass production cylinder uses the cr500 bolt pattern that im aware of, maybe artic cat or polaris might be the same as cr500 but honestly i think they have their own pattern. i cant say why its designed the way it is, the engineers made it that way for one reason or another. but there always seems to be a way to improve apon anything.....probly why mega491 cut his bigger

[Ported&Polished]

Ported & Polished,

I think it is purpose built for Honda CR 500 do to the bolt pattern

The duct insert did not match the stock CR 500 carb flange so I took time with a porting tool to match them up. I would not recommend installing without matching these pieces since the V Force III insert duct is much smaller than the stock CR 500 Honda flange

Ok, so which is it then? Either it doesn't fit a stock cr500 and needs mods, or it is purpose built for the cr500.

[fastkart]

Ok, so which is it then? Either it doesn't fit a stock cr500 and needs mods, or it is purpose built for the cr500.

The VF2 required mods too via cutting off the deals that slip inside the stock cage. Does that mean the VF2 wasn't purpose built?

[Ported&Polished]

Am I dreaming? Is this another planet? I know I'm talking about a set of reeds that doesn't fit the cr500. I also know when I buy a round peg it won't fit into a square hole without mods. How the fuck can something be purpose built for an application, but not fit that application without mods? It seems clear as day, to me, that the reeds are not purpose built for a cr500. If they where, they would fit perfectly and need zero modifications. But, I'm willing to learn, so tell me then, why did they make them specifically for the cr500, and at the same time make them not fit the cr500?

[mega491]

I guess I should be more clear, sorry. It will bolt in without any mods. Its just that I chose to match the carb flange to the little removable duct insert. I thought about just not using the duct insert (the VFII doesn't have one anyway) but thought if matched up it would at least maintain flow and more than likely enhance flow . After all I went to the trouble of opening up and matching my cases to my cylinder in the transfers. (FYI....The cylinders are purpose built for the bottom ends and most of them need work to match.)

I think you guys might find interesting I put a VF III in a CR 250. It is the exact same design with the removable duct insert. I chose to match it up because it was a little off also.

Also be aware all the V Force reeds require you cut off those rubber turds that hang out the back of the carb flange. Directions on how to do this are included with the V Force as well as a jig. All you need is a hacksaw.

[dannygraves]

mega491, what year is the jug on your bike? and what year intake boot is it using? the '89+ boots have a much smaller opening than the earlier ones. maybe the vforce3 was made for a newer boot than you are running.

[87CR500Rider]

Also be aware all the V Force reeds require you cut off those rubber turds that hang out the back of the carb flange.

Not true. There was no modification required for my 87' CR500. Honda must have left the rubber turds off my bike.

[dannygraves]

the older intake boots didn't have the rubberpeices protruding out, instead, they had a plastic insert that most people threw out

[Roostius_Maximus]

I ported that plastic piece, and profiled the inner part of the boot on my '88 setup, Made a big difference!

[mega491]

I talked to a tech guy at Tassinari this AM. The cage and insert originally was made special by Tassinari for an aftermarket Banshee cylinder block produced by CP or something like that. The aftermarket company used the CR 500 pattern for the "trick" banshee block by design. That is what comes in the "new" CR 500 VF III. He said this winter they will be designing an insert specifically for the CR 500. I told him in the mean time they should include instructions explaining why and how regarding the mismatched insert. My take after talking to the tech guy is that it was rushed into production and they left that bit of info out.

Unfortunately some guys will not notice the mismatched insert and will not get the best performance the VF III is capable of. So if you know anyone who purchased one be sure to tell them. We don't want word of any 450 Briggs & Stratton hanging with a Hoon getting out now do we? I did say hanging cause we all know that even if a Hoon left his choke on he will still smoke a 450 air compressor.



Gen III CR 500
84 CR 500
91 CR 500
2006 YZ 450F
4 1981 490 Maicos
80 CR 250
79 250 Maico
74 Rickman 250
67 Triumph TT Special
& more street Triumphs & Harley stuff

[mega491]

Roostius, Good eye. Most guys wouldn't see that and make that mod.

[MICK]

Thanks again Mega, that's squared away! Got the answer straight from the man. Good to know

[100hp honda]

I talked to a tech guy at Tassinari this AM. The cage and insert originally was made special by Tassinari for an aftermarket Banshee cylinder block produced by CP or something like that. The aftermarket company used the CR 500 pattern for the "trick" banshee block by design. That is what comes in the "new" CR 500 VF III. He said this winter they will be designing an insert specifically for the CR 500. I told him in the mean time they should include instructions explaining why and how regarding the mismatched insert. My take after talking to the tech guy is that it was rushed into production and they left that bit of info out.

Unfortunately some guys will not notice the mismatched insert and will not get the best performance the VF III is capable of. So if you know anyone who purchased one be sure to tell them. We don't want word of any 450 Briggs & Stratton hanging with a Hoon getting out now do we? I did say hanging cause we all know that even if a Hoon left his choke on he will still smoke a 450 air compressor.



Gen III CR 500
84 CR 500
91 CR 500
2006 YZ 450F
4 1981 490 Maicos
80 CR 250
79 250 Maico
74 Rickman 250
67 Triumph TT Special
& more street Triumphs & Harley stuff

ok it makes sense now. so in a sense it isnt cr500 specific, the reed cage would be the same but the insert would be different. ya i think some CP cylinders do use the cr500 bolt pattern, but i thought they used 39 pwk. maybe they only used 36mm carbs which might explain why the insert is so small

[100hp honda]

i just got thinking again. im pretty sure the vforce 3 has been available for a long time for the CP cylinders with the cr500 bolt pattern. if i would of put 2 and 2 together i would of realized they would interchange between motors

[blackz34]

I talked to a tech guy at Tassinari this AM. The cage and insert originally was made special by Tassinari for an aftermarket Banshee cylinder block produced by CP or something like that. The aftermarket company used the CR 500 pattern for the "trick" banshee block by design. That is what comes in the "new" CR 500 VF III. He said this winter they will be designing an insert specifically for the CR 500. I told him in the mean time they should include instructions explaining why and how regarding the mismatched insert. My take after talking to the tech guy is that it was rushed into production and they left that bit of info out.

Unfortunately some guys will not notice the mismatched insert and will not get the best performance the VF III is capable of. So if you know anyone who purchased one be sure to tell them. We don't want word of any 450 Briggs & Stratton hanging with a Hoon getting out now do we? I did say hanging cause we all know that even if a Hoon left his choke on he will still smoke a 450 air compressor.



Gen III CR 500
84 CR 500
91 CR 500
2006 YZ 450F
4 1981 490 Maicos
80 CR 250
79 250 Maico
74 Rickman 250
67 Triumph TT Special
& more street Triumphs & Harley stuff

I just typed "V Force" in the search box and found this old thread because I'm beginning to make my "needed part list". So, did they ever made a "correct" insert for the 500?

I read a couple of thread trying to decide which brand to choose, some like them, other not. Some thread were a little old, so what's the trend now? I will ride mostly MX, stock cylinder (or slightly cleaned!), probably FMF Gnarly pipe, and maybe another carb (like a PWK41).

Thank you!