Rear Engine bushings

[MTNielson]

I have an '87 motor that I plan to put in a '97 250 frame.

What's the best/easiest/cheapest way to fit the swingarm bolt through the rear engine mount.

I don't have the 250 motor, so I can't use the bushings from the 250 motor.

Is there enough material in the orig. bushings to drill them out ?

Has anyone had new ones made ? if so how much and where ?

Thanks

[AlisoBob]

These bushing are harder than a wedding night night boner...

I have seen them successfully bore out in a mill, once the case was split.

Its not something thats going to be done easily...

[ShanMan]

is that harder than Chinese algebra???

[jbird_710]

I had some bushings made for my bike but I don't have the same frame and engine combination you're doing. I measured the gaps and the shaft; then made a drawing fo what I needed and gave it to a machinist friend who made the bushings for $50. (actually was a friend of a friend).

I've heard you have to bore out the rear mount on and '87 engine but not sure the best way other than to take it to a good, dependable machine shop to ensure you don't mess it up.

[MTNielson]

Yeah, I'm talking about the bushings that are pressed into the case halves.



Bob,

Do you still have the cases from your CRF250 motor ?

If so are they usable ? if so, they're worth money, if not maybe we could work something out, I'd guess they have similar bushings that could be fit into my older cr500 cases.

I'm kicking myself, I had a crf450 motor that the rod went through the bottom of the cases, I threw them away a while back, but I'd bet they had similar bushings.

Thanks

[dannygraves]

I would just pop them out and take them to a machinist with the bolt and tell him to have at it! I'm sure he'd either bore them out properly, of fab up new ones.

[AlisoBob]

All my CRF stuff is long gone.

Sorry.

[ShanMan]

FYI: bushings (sometimes called plain bearings) are typically either case-hardened or through-hardened. if they are through hardened, they will be very difficult to bore out without getting chatter and thus a poor surface finish (to corroborate Bob's original comment). If they are case-hardened, you will likely breach the tough external surface when you bore them and be left with a much softer inner material that will dither or prematurely wear...not ideal for a bearing or bushing. By the way, used bushings will almost certainly have work hardened over time, and will be the most difficult to re-work.

I suggest getting some good 17-4PH or 15-5PH stainless and having the bushings you need turned by a machinist. The other possibility is to get some drill bushing stock in the correct outer diameter and have them bored. Just my .01999 worth.

[dannygraves]

the cases then selves are also a different diameter, to fit my newer 250 bushings in my '86 cases, I have to drill out the cases with a 13/16ths bit, it was actually a perfect snug fit.

[teemtrubble]

email me mike@fachar-sons.com I know a really good Machinist who is cheaper to pay than feed

[Uzi]

MTNielson

You might try PMing AJ on the other site he's got them laying around and sent me a set for free awhile back. Then all you would have to do is drill cases like danny said and the newer style bushings will drip right in

[conrod]

Yeah really nice guy that AJ from Service Honda, top guy, he sends out free parts to CR500 owners, and try’s to help anyone on a CR500, but don’t mention that you are a member here. (High time someone here kissed his ass)

But in the unlikely event that you can’t get a set form AJ, here is a thought. The bushes are made of bloody kryptonite but only the sides need to be hardened, this is because they are the bits in contact with the swinging arm bearing bushes. If the sides were soft metal the swing arm bushes would eat into them over time, and the swing arm bolt would keep coming loose. (Loose being a relative term as the torque setting is about 80foot pounds)

Soooo, if it’s only the sides that need to be hard, fair enough mill them out to the size you need if they can take it, or have some made in mild steel but fit hardened washers on the ends.





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[ou812]

Man I just don't get how you guy's go on about this topic. I've said it before but here we go again. THey are not bushings period. they are a lite press fit into the case halfs but they do not butt together so they transmit no load, when you tighten the swing arm bolt the cases take the load not the so called bushings.The swing arm bolt does not rotate, the cases do not rotate, the so called bushings do not rotate.

They center the rear of the motor to the swing arm. Now to do the same thing on a 80's motor into a frame with the bigger swing arm bolt just get a piece of shime stock, roll it, ad a little glue on each end and install it in the case, put the bolt in the case and let glue dry. centering issue done ,your cost, 50 cent of shime stock.

Now if you measure the flange end on what is being called the bushing, go get 2 metric washers of the same thickness and right bolt diameter, I found perfect one that were for car wheels lug nut washers. Now glue and clamp to each side of the case, let glue dry.

You just saved a lot of money. Been working great on my bikes.

[conrod]

Ou812 you are mistaking, the hardened bushes are there for a reason, do you think Honda just make this shit up so that people 20 years down the line will get all fucked up about them on a forum.

The crankcases would be soft metal with a hardened pair of “Bobbins” as Honda call them torqued up against them. Yes the cases take the torque but soft metal would sheer if the bobbins for any reason spun, for example if some dumb fuck never greased their swinging arm bearings for 20 fucking years and had to cut the fucking swinging arm off. (You know who you all are)

Maybe your swing arm is perfectly torqued up, when was the last time you checked?


Anyone kissed any ass yet.




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[ou812]

Gee someone sounds a little bent?

Maybe your swing arm is perfectly torqued up, when was the last time you checked?

3 weeks ago and also did the front end lube too.

The bushes are made of bloody kryptonite but only the sides need to be hardened,

Then out of the blue

The crankcases would be soft metal with a hardened pair of “Bobbins” as Honda call them torqued up against them. Yes the cases take the torque but soft metal would sheer if the bobbins for any reason spun, for example if some dumb fuck never greased their swinging arm bearings for 20 fucking years and had to cut the fucking swinging arm off. (You know who you all are)

That would be do to the bolt welding to the inside of the "Bobins" which the degree of hardness would matter little.

do you think Honda just make this shit up so that people 20 years down the line will get all fucked up about them on a forum.

for example if some dumb fuck never greased their swinging arm bearings for 20 fucking years and had to cut the fucking swinging arm off. (You know who you all are)

So what your saying is Honda designed them around a 20 year maintanance shedule? That is why there so hard.

Come on, did you know the CR500 was designed and sold as a Competion use only vehicle? Did you know they were only sold with that disclamer and no warrenty? If someone is such a stupid Fck that they go 20 years between tear downs on a race bike, they deserve a well welded on swingarm bolt. Man are you for real?

If you look in a Honda manual it is quite clear by saying" Competition maintanance schedule, swingarm service, lube every 3 race or about 7.5 hours." ..................... Hello?

Honda sold this bike, BTW regardless of how you may use, as a race bike. If you think they some how planned for hillbilly tear downs some 20 year later, dude you need to put the crack pipe away, period.


And because this is just way to funny

Anyone kissed any ass yet.

Why? ya lookin for a place to plant your lips?

[conrod]

Hey you have to watch the use of the word “bent” around here.

Yeah Honda did put a hardened protective bush there to protect the crankcases, go back to around 84/85 and you will find washers and a tube inserted in there instead of the one piece hardened bush. If you manufacture a small protective bush like that and need to harden just the outside face, well stuff it the whole thing can just get heat-treated.

20 years is of course an extreme example but even a new bike can have some dumb ass working on it and forget to tighten the swing arm bolt right up, same result, the cases eaten into by the needle bearing bobbins allowed to spin with the arm movement.... So what are you saying should Honda just sell disposable 6 month use bikes, -----Oh wait a minute they do now, CRF250/ 450

Most CR500 forums have lots of examples of people asking how to get the neglected and seized bolt out of there.

My favourite was to get the frame on its side and get a Russian with a big sledgehammer to whack it. (Had to be a Russian).

Oh and the ass kiss thing, guess I have to spell that out here--- I think it’s high time bob kissed AJ’s ass and got him on here. AJ is the guy keeping the CR500 alive with Service Honda, they don’t deserve the rubbishing that they get over here.

I bet the Honda executives hear all about every world record jump made on the CR500AF, the bike “they” should have made and sold. And it will keep happening for years to come, much embarrassing disgrace for Mr Honda, thanks to AJ and the latest jump guy Robbie Madison


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[ou812]

Most CR500 forums have lots of examples of people asking how to get the neglected and seized bolt out of there.

That does not have anything to do with the intent of the vehicles original purpose. From 81 to 89 it was sold like any other CR be it 80, 125,250 or 500. it was sold to be raced for one season then you buy next years model. production from 90 onwards of the 500 was just to cash in on Hondas investment.

I worked in the eighties at a Honda dealer and also Honda Canada, and I know first hand Honda does not give to shits about any CR500 that AJ or someons else may do or set some record. Honda has been anti 2 stroke since the seventies and that is a fact. They only produced 2 strokes for sale when the money was worth it to them. Honda was the sole original driving force behind the death of 2 strokes in both on and off road professional racing on 2 wheels.

Oh and the ass kiss thing, guess I have to spell that out here--- I think it’s high time bob kissed AJ’s ass and got him on here. AJ is the guy keeping the CR500 alive with Service Honda, they don’t deserve the rubbishing that they get over here.

We will have to agree to disagree on that. Fact: everything AJ does at SH is based on putting coin in his pocket. Fact Bob provides free knowlegde, photos and insight to help the general public ( yes even you) on how to update your CR500 power plant and bring it up to a bike that is of a ride level equal to any modern MX bike, and way more fun.

So IMO Bob does it from the heart, AJ does it for self centered reasons

[AlisoBob]

AJ and I have somewhat checqured past...

It stems from the fact that I think he can improve his product alot, and I think he beleives that I tend to be difficult , just to do so.

I think AJ started like someone like Russell Mitchell , and has turned into someone like Paul Teutul.

Look at what Mike @ Teemtrouble is doing.... BEAUTIFUL Craftsmanship right there....

Service Honda is not the leader anymore, times have changed...like they allways do.

So IMO Bob does it from the heart

I just wanted to offer a place where Hoons can come and have a good time without all the oppression... and its turned out to offer much more, due to the great members we have.


To think that it all started from the other site banning the term WFO because it was determined to be vulgar.....

[pstoffers]

AJ and I have somewhat checqured past...

It stems from the fact that I think he can improve his product alot, and I think he beleives that I tend to be difficult , just to do so.

I think AJ started like someone like Russell Mitchell , and has turned into someone like Paul Teutul.

Look at what Mike @ Teemtrouble is doing.... BEAUTIFUL Craftsmanship right there....

Service Honda is not the leader anymore, times have changed...like they allways do.

So IMO Bob does it from the heart, AJ does it for self centered reasons

I just want to offer a place where Hoons can come and have a good time without all the oppression...

[mxracr121]

So IMO Bob does it from the heart, AJ does it for self centered reasons

Yes, Bob does do this from his heart, and does many good things, I can vouch for that, he did a TON for me. But, to say AJ does his conversions for self centered reasons is kind of going too far. AJ does it as a business, to put food on the table, and have a roof over his famlies head. Nothing self centered about that. By the way, I'm not an AJ supporter or anything, I just hate when people say somebody does things for the wrong reasons, when all they are doing is running a business.

And, yes, there are better conversions out there than Service Honda's.

[ShanMan]

Bob is righteous as a man, as a friend, and as a hoon...with or without a website. Anyone who thinks differently clearly has not met the man...simple as that folks.

AJ too is a cool enough cat. For those NOT in the know...AJ Waggoner did not invent or produce the first 500 aluminum-framed converted bike. His employer, SH was savvy enough however to semi-mass produce the concept. Big deal at this point, they have sold hundreds, and AJ is now building Kawi big-bores as well. I think he understands that the lid has been blown off the CR500AF market. The honor of being the first builder you ask? That honor goes to Rick Daughty, current owner of Vintage Iron in Yorba Linda, CA who with much help from HRC and with huge dollars, produced the beautiful example that sits in Greg Primm's collection:



Like Bob says, time marches on, and people adapt and overcome. It's nothing personal against AJ Waggoner anymore than every replica Cobra is against Carroll Shelby...except that Carroll DID invent the AC Cobra.

[teemtrubble]

Holly shit! All this in a thread about bushings? WTF! Mike you should have posted I took care of boring the bushings for you I've had Bob here in my shop and all I can say is he's a good dude. I wouldn't want his grocery bill..... Shan I thought Micky K built the first one

[AlisoBob]

Holly shit! All this in a thread about bushings? WTF!

Can you tell its a Cold , Rainy , Saturday?

[AlisoBob]

I think its very cool AJ is active on the other site. He's taken a few lumps, and continues to log on, and stick around.

Bob is righteous as a man, as a friend, and as a hoon...with or without a website. Anyone who thinks differently clearly has not met the man...simple as that folks.

Off the scale Brother....

[MTNielson]

This thread has become much more interesting than getting my '87 motor to fit in my gen 1 250 frame.

I did get the bushings bored out by Mike at Teem Trubble. Thanks Mike, Thanks for helping me out. Mike's a good guy to deal with and took care of me. I also got one of his heater hose manifolds that will make the plumbing much easier on the Gen 1.

Side note: I'm helping a friend replace the crank and bearings on an '01 yz250. When I was shopping for parts I noticed Yamaha sells their "COLLARS" (bushings) separately from the cases which Honda does not do. The inside diameter is the same size as the newer Hondas. List price is about $15 ea. But you'd still probably need to bore the cases to fit Yamaha collars.

Thanks Mike.