Frame heat treatment post welding

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » March 9th, 2009, 8:41 am

thats what I used.

Morris500 · Post by **Morris500** » March 24th, 2009, 7:52 am

Hey Mike,
I am using an older sine wave transformer TIG to weld my aluminum frame. I'd like to get a pre-mixed bottle of argon/helium, but I'm unsure about the best ratio to use for increased penetraction on the downtube. Would you say 75%argon/25%helium would work well, or would a 50%/50% mix be better? I'd like to use AC with high frequency instead of DCEN with straight helium. Thanks.

cryzsurfer · Post by **cryzsurfer** » March 24th, 2009, 8:12 am

If you get too much helium in there it will flutter real bad causing the weld appearance to not have that row of dimes look. If you can't get a mixer just rig up a simple Y connection and adjust your helium/argon to where you're getting a good melt but without the sputtering you get with too much. The Y connection is handy for when you're going DCEN with pure helium you only open the helium plus you don't have to buy another bottle of mixed which probably isn't cheap.
Craigus

Morris500 · Post by **Morris500** » March 24th, 2009, 8:26 am

Interesting idea on the Y connection. This setup won't damage the flowmeters on the tanks?

cryzsurfer · Post by **cryzsurfer** » March 24th, 2009, 12:29 pm

I've been doing it for years and even have the inert gas brass valve Y fittings on some machines for times like when you're out of helium for example you can close that valve and have your empty tank picked up by the supplier. They do sell "T" mixers that'll do it, but the connecting fittings are a little different than the usual argon/helium fittings.
Craigus

Morris500 · Post by **Morris500** » April 11th, 2009, 7:29 am

I ended up purchasing a large bottle of 75% Argon/25% Helium for the TIG. This gas mix works much better on aluminum than straight argon. I even tried some DCEN with the gas and it worked. Very cool stuff.

cryzsurfer · Post by **cryzsurfer** » April 11th, 2009, 7:00 pm

If you like DC welding with mixed gas you'll love it with straight helium.Glad you liked it. Welding is fun and I'm glad I haven't burned out on it after all these years. Rode the iron CR500 today along with the rebuilt YZ285 and had a total blast. The dirt was awesome and I now feel like I've been hit by a garbage truck. I'm too tired to unload the bikes, but I'm going outside right now and chaining them up for the night. I'm making progress on the tank and will have some more pics next week.
Craigus

Morris500 · Post by **Morris500** » April 11th, 2009, 7:51 pm

Thanks again for your input cryzsurfer. I know that "hit by the garbage truck feel". I have another question for you. I got a small bottle of straight helium from the welding supplier a few weeks back but had very poor results welding aluminum with it on DCEN. I'm wondering if they gave me balloon helium. Is there a way to tell which type of helium I have by looking at the bottle? It just says compressed helium. Thanks.

cryzsurfer · Post by **cryzsurfer** » April 12th, 2009, 8:07 am

There are differences in the grades as we've completely stopped using balloon grade helium because many times one out of six bottles was contaminated. When you fire up it'll boil and turn brown and when you try to add filler it'll basically reject the rod. With DCEN make sure the piece is clean as there's no cleaning action with DC like you get with argon and AC. I use a three angle carbide scraper to remove the oxide prior to welding but a nice SS brush will work in a pinch. If it turns green when you fire off it's probably 50 series containing magnesium and a bitch to DC weld. Try another piece of scrap that you know is from a different batch. You need to run a bit more flow also when using this process like ~45-50 to the top of the ball. Turn down the post flow as helium is pretty pricey. Don't use a high speed sander to clean the weld area on aluminum for DC as it leaves embedded particles from the oxide pads making lousy welds. Carbide tools are a friend on aluminum prep. Keep us informed on your results and maybe a picture which helps.
Craigus

Morris500 · Post by **Morris500** » May 19th, 2009, 5:50 am

I have a three part question:
1. Does anybody have experience using 4643 filler rod instead of the usual 4043? I will be heat treating my frame and this filler rod supposedly contains small amounts of magnesium to help in the heat treating process. I guess 4043 is dependent upon dillution with magnesium from the base metal for proper heat treatment results. Inadequate dilution is a problem as the base metal gets thicker.
2. Does anybody know if this filler rod is compatible with the mystery alloy that Honda supposedly uses on it's downtube?
3. Is the DCEN pure helium TIG welding process compatible with this 4643 filler rod just like 4043?
Thanks.

cryzsurfer · Post by **cryzsurfer** » May 19th, 2009, 5:33 pm

I'm not familiar with that filler, but depending on the amount of magnesium the more mag the harder to weld with DCEN. You might use DC for the hot pass then switch to AC for the cosmetic cap pass. Yry using it to tack with but in a spot on the frame that you have access with a cutter in case it turns to shit and starts cracking immediately. Keep us posted and need I say it..... pictures would be cool.
Craigus

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » May 19th, 2009, 6:13 pm

Morris500 wrote:I have a three part question:
1. Does anybody have experience using 4643 filler rod instead of the usual 4043? I will be heat treating my frame and this filler rod supposedly contains small amounts of magnesium to help in the heat treating process. I guess 4043 is dependent upon dillution with magnesium from the base metal for proper heat treatment results. Inadequate dilution is a problem as the base metal gets thicker.
2. Does anybody know if this filler rod is compatible with the mystery alloy that Honda supposedly uses on it's downtube?
3. Is the DCEN pure helium TIG welding process compatible with this 4643 filler rod just like 4043?
Thanks.

a dude on the other site gave the breakdown of what elements honda was using. seems like some parts were 7xxx series and other were 6xxx series. im going off old memory, you might want to go find that thread to be for certain.

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