Aluminum Sleeve Pictures

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » July 16th, 2009, 2:50 pm

well, that 81 octane worked well for chris in the vids

He wanted to prove he could make a gen-1 (2 bolt main, weaker xfer case) into a 10 sec daily driver, but he ended up lifting those damn 2 bolt mains, so a new motor is in the works

glen howell · Post by **glen howell** » July 16th, 2009, 3:14 pm

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · Post by **Roostius_Maximus** » July 16th, 2009, 3:27 pm

i call it good seeing as how its thee pump fuel that will support 1000hp on the street

Post by **AlisoBob** » July 16th, 2009, 4:00 pm

glen howell wrote:Do any of you old timers out there remember the chevy Vega,or the Cad.alum. block engines. Remember we relplaced them with metal sleeve kits,nuf. said.

Buick too.....

I like magnetic bores....

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » July 16th, 2009, 4:47 pm

Glen, are you talking about the cossworth motor? My old machinist in san clemente has a show peice cossworth vega, that thing was badass.

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » July 16th, 2009, 5:59 pm

dannygraves wrote:I found a couple places who would custom make them, nobody had anything off the shelf. the custom guys wanted like a minimum 100 qty order, so I posted about it on both boards and not one single reply

you talking viton ? i found a few places that can make about any seal known to man, with a wide variety of materials to choose from, but i dont recall seeing a minimum order listed on their website. maybe ill have to call them.

slowwrx · Post by **slowwrx** » July 16th, 2009, 6:25 pm

I'm not sure i understand why you would want an aluminum cylinder wall

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » July 16th, 2009, 6:26 pm

M.F.D.B. wrote:After seeing 2 examples (my half gig hour yz450, and my girls run dry on oil crf250) im totally sold on Niki cyl's. The only issue I have with doing the 500 is the lack of case law on the can do and cannots (cold stick, side clearance, etc.). Id be really interested in a single ring, tight sidewall forged setup run on E85. Too bad we cant track down sili crank seals...

double rings work fine in nikisil, ktm been doing it for over 20 years with great sucess. my most recent purchase is 15 years old, double ring piston, never had the topend off, still good compression with all things considered

.

what the hell is sili crank seals ?

M.F.D.B. · Post by **M.F.D.B.** » July 16th, 2009, 6:31 pm

MICK wrote:Oh gosh...is that because somebody read it has an octane rating of 100-105?? So you know that's RON. The way I see it E85 is 81 octane, Motor Octane Number that is. A number of premium pump fuels are rated at 95-96 MON. .

You really are an idiot...If you have absolutely no clue about the subject, why go to such great lengths to prove it?

E85 is pure grain Ethanol with an Octane of around 116 mixed with 15% (roughly) 87 octane. In the US we use the (R+M)/2 "pump octane" at which E85 usually shows 104-106 octane, which is 4-5 (approximately) LOWER than the rest of the would using MON. So in other countries E85 would be 110 Octane (roughly).

MICK wrote: It's well known ethanol raises compression, but it's not the compression we speak of when we talk about race fuels.

WoW really? How does it do that, MAGIC? Please kill yourself!

M.F.D.B. · Post by **M.F.D.B.** » July 16th, 2009, 6:32 pm

100hp honda wrote: what the hell is sili crank seals ?

Silicone (Alky friendly)...

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » July 16th, 2009, 7:28 pm

silicon ? look at this and tell me if thats what your refering to, i dont see any mention of silicon though

http://www.dupontelastomers.com/literat ... 1ec7f1.pdf

i was under the impression e85 and biodeisel vehicles are using viton fuel system components.

M.F.D.B. · Post by **M.F.D.B.** » July 16th, 2009, 9:15 pm

Viton may work, but im pretty sure the cart guys said they run Silcone seals. They are available but like Danny said, 100 pcs. minimum order. Now if Viton would work for both gas (end of day clear out) and Alky then thats the best of the best. Since Gas eats Silicone and Alky eats rubber, its tough to make it work with both. This is why Flex Fuel vehicles use so much Teflon (PTFE).

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » July 16th, 2009, 9:24 pm

when I was looking into it, I was considering all sorts of materials... whichever we went with an order of 100 was required. one of the places had a list of what materials are compatable with what and there were some weird ones that I can't remember the name of that sounded to be pretty much bullet proof.

Oh, and when I talk about compression I am refering to detonation resistance allowing a motor to run a higher compression without pinging... NO fuel can add or remove compression.

M.F.D.B. · Post by **M.F.D.B.** » July 16th, 2009, 9:29 pm

dannygraves wrote:NO fuel can add or remove compression.

Damn! There goes that plan...

MICK · Post by **MICK** » July 16th, 2009, 10:33 pm

MICK wrote: It's well known ethanol raises compression, but it's not the compression we speak of when we talk about race fuels.

I didn't realize I wrote "compression". Doh! I meant octane

but just maybe

M.F.D.B. wrote:E85 is pure grain Ethanol with an Octane of around 116 mixed with 15% (roughly) 87 octane. In the US we use the (R+M)/2 "pump octane" at which E85 usually shows 104-106 octane, which is 4-5 (approximately) LOWER than the rest of the would using MON. So in other countries E85 would be 110 Octane (roughly).

Really...you serious?

Black Stone drew samples from half a dozen(?) E85 retailers. ONE of them had a pump octane rating of 105 as you describe...ONE! This is because there are 3 classes of E85 fuel. And which one would you guess is most commonly offered? Go ahead MFDB, take a guess...
The first class you seem very familiar with. The second and third classes have considerably less ethanol and a higher % of piss poor commercial grade petro fuel. THEY ARE ALL MARKETED AS E85!! There are no laws requiring them, nor do they give a rat's ass if you purchase shit E85 and blow your car/bike the fuck up! As there used to be a law requiring stations to inform you of ethanol blended fuels...they have no obligation to do so anymore.
Furthermore, E85 has YET to become a standardized fuel here on our market. The R+M/2 method DOES NOT APPLY to all E85 fuels...not just yet. As unfortunately proven by Black Stone. Nearly half(?) of their tested samples proved 90 or below.
Lastly, riders I know who are trying to take advantage of E85 are complaining about pre ignition (not pre det). Cooler range plugs and a plethora of TBC coated heads and crowns are being tried and tested. Not a big problem I foresee on our CR500s, but larger displacement, higher comp multi cylinder engines appear to be prone.

I'll end this by saying you're correct MFDB...but there's more to this subject than that little bit of sorry information you posted. You come off as only being educated on this fuel's best case scenarios

...have a good day now

britincali · Post by **britincali** » July 16th, 2009, 10:45 pm

I still think alcohol is a crap idea as a fuel, it takes a ton more juice to run and between the gas milage, emissions and just making the shit is horrible on the environment.

Just another half ass thought out plan to save the world that in the long run makes things worse.

If they spent as much time and money on fuel cells the world would be a better, cleaner and less violent place.

The piston engine and carbon age is coming to an end folks.

MICK · Post by **MICK** » July 16th, 2009, 10:56 pm

I can't remember who did it (Edmunds?) but they compared fuel mileage, cost, performance and emissions from a Tahoe ran on E85, then regular unleaded. Ahh hell I'll just find the article...
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/alternati ... ticle.html

...results were pathetic

britincali · Post by **britincali** » July 16th, 2009, 11:01 pm

Great article mick!!

britincali · Post by **britincali** » July 16th, 2009, 11:08 pm

This is how I see it and this is gonna end in a major thread hyjack lol

Hybrids dont work... All the extra weight of the battery and hybrid tech plus the additional initial cost make the gas milage savings redundant and the environmental impact is massive when you consider the nasty stuff that is mined for the batterys and all the traveling the materials do.

Electric vehicles dont work as most of the electric coming out of the outlets is provided by hugely polluting coal plants.

E85 / alcohol dont work as mentioned above.

Diesel works awsome milage wise but the emissions are nasty and see below

Gas dont work as the oil producers have every car driving country by the balls.

Hydrogen fuel cells is the way to roll IF and its a big IF we can either find a better way of producing electricty with renewable non polluting sources or can all the coal plants and build reactors (waste disposal is needed)

Either way piston motors and oil based transortation are gonna be a distant memory within 100 years.

CR500R7 · Post by **CR500R7** » July 17th, 2009, 12:26 am

In 100 years time Brit it won't matter a F@#K, we will be dead long before then.

glen howell · Post by **glen howell** » July 17th, 2009, 12:39 am

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » July 17th, 2009, 3:30 am

M.F.D.B. wrote:Viton may work

of course it would work

. why would you use silicon seals that supposedly cant handle gasoline exposure. what if you want to use gasoline 1 day and mehanol the next weekend

.

says right on that website viton is impervious to oil, e85, 100% methanol, gasoline, and coolants.

M.F.D.B. · Post by **M.F.D.B.** » July 17th, 2009, 7:52 am

Sorry, I was more worried about my dog with explosive diharrea then reading all that info!

Alcohol for the win! Once Osama Obama gets done completely fucking the US and we go into a MAJOR depression, people will be KILLING eachother for Gasoline/Diesel cuz its going to be $10 or more a gallon. Ill be burning WVO in my diesel and fermenting fruit for our Flex Fuel Suburban...

thestuz · Post by **thestuz** » July 24th, 2009, 4:32 pm

wow, this thread kind of lost its way didnt it osama and $10 litres of fuel? i do like the idea of the ally cylinder. not sure about the price vs benefits factor though.maybe is it was a cheap change over option id do it.

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Aluminum Sleeve Pictures