AJ post up some recent conversion pics

[AlisoBob]

In S/H's defense, I'm just trying to keep things Apples to Apples...

[TYSTYX]

I saw a SH bike and said I gotta have one of those, a friend of mine bought one and upon delivery the first thing I noticed was how it looked cosmetically and wasn't impressed I told my friend for that kind of money I could build one of those bikes. His response was "yeah right" and here we are...

It's become a level of acceptance in all industries. It's a shame... and any one who say's it's just a dirt bike has just become another sheep. I'm a DOD contractor and started building bikes because I wanted something better. If I choose to take building bikes to the next level which probably will happen soon. I know our products and services surpass anything and anyone out there and my customers know it and that's what matters even Frank.

[Uzi]

Geez guys!
You're not spending $800.00 on a clapped out dirt bike here,you're dropping 10 times that coin on either X or Y manufactures Aluminum framed 500. If I hear "Its only a dirt bike" one more time,I'm gonna lose it.In "04",we built a new house.In just about every phase of the build,there was a group of "specialist" that I just couldn't believe we were writing a check to have them do what they were doing. In "05",I bought a brand new tractor,not MTD home depot special ($30K) and a brand new Diesel pickup ($40 something K) A considerable chunk "o" change. Both of them had needed minor service service work early on. I wont get into exact details of what they did because the "its only a dirt bike" crowd wouldn't have thought twice about what they did....But their attitude about MY stuff was "its only a tractor" or "its just a truck" really friggen burned my ass. Obviously this isn't a manufacture fit or finish problem but the "I'll never see it from my garage" attitude towards someone Else's stuff is, and its just un-acceptable. Which, in this thread is just rolling into the end user not giving 2 sh ts about what "IS" in his garage.....I just don't friggen get it. Sub standard work and or service has become the norm, expected and tolerated in this country and it's just wrong. I was brought up as a kid were precision and excellence was ALWAYS expected and anything less was NOT tolerated at all.
Man.....People,start having some pride in your stuff already.

EDIT: AJ and Mike...Please dont take this post as directed to either one of you. I'm just a ticked off guy when it comes to all the service personel out there in general that dont give a rats ass about the customer and the customer just rolling over and taking it thinking "its just the way that it is".......

97af

I 100% agree with what you are saying above. I was speaking about looks not the customer service. Like I said in my post above i've seen both TTM and SH go above and beyond to help people out.

I guess the point I was trying to make is

If I can have 2 bikes both built for the same purpose one is less aesthetically pleasing but costs less (while still being fully functional for its purpose)

And the other being fully functional and more aesthetically pleasing but costing more, I would take the first bike.

Like I said that's just a personal preference. Obviously if the price is the same its a no brainer, but thats why I wanted the heads up comparsion as I have no idea what is being charged by SH or TTM for these conversions.

I do take pride in my bikes but its more the sort that I make it home at the end of every ride and that they are well maintained and mechanically sound. Not whether I have the most polished parts and best looking bike. Again just my personal preference. My cr5 is a ugly scratched up, dirty looking bike but its well maintained and always makes it back to the truck(knock on wood )

I'm just a ticked off guy when it comes to all the service personel out there in general that dont give a rats ass about the customer and the customer just rolling over and taking it thinking "its just the way that it is".......

I know what you mean by this I'm the guy going back through the drive in to get the right toppings put on my burger. And have argued with customer service people over things that other might consider trivial. Hope I explained myself better.

well i will now have 2 TTM bikes to my collection, my first one is a zero hour frame and zero hour motor....i gave myself an open checkbook to this build....i got every option on this bike...i really did make this one my true dream bike ...i will list the options as well as pics over the weekend, i will also share the exact cost of it.


i'll post the bike and list the options in its own thread over the weekend.

Thats exactly what I meant Teamdns. A run down of the cost combined with the options that you got. Looking forward to your post.

I'll stop now and hopefully AJ will come back with some answers and pictures like the thread was intended for.

[AlisoBob]

I'll stop now and hopefully AJ will come back with some answers and pictures like the thread was intended for.

yup.....

[south central hoon]

thinking out loud here...

not sure what the hype is about a "zero time" this or that mentioned here several times. is the bike going to be ridden? sat on? kicked over? the zero time title has a lifespan of about ZERO once its in a riders hands.....sounds like more money than brains syndrome to me.

But, i am the type of guy that rides my stuff as hard as my abilities allow me to, and wrench my stuff as well as my abilities allow as well. ( I like many, many before me on this site, built my own AF) I'd rather fix a "rider" than look at and baby a "zero time bike".

[south central hoon]

Questions for AJ:

How many S/H 500 have been sold? How many have failed? Is all your fab work done in-house?

[Slomo]

It looks to me like Mike does a single pass when he welds his frames.
Maybe AJ is welding his using multiple passes??

[MICK]

Well I can see this thread is going to be one of those where agreeances and opinions are never going to be met. Case in point...

If I hear "Its only a dirt bike" one more time,I'm gonna lose it.

It's a shame... and any one who say's it's just a dirt bike has just become another sheep.

Well then prepare to loose it. My bike is just a bike. It's ridden, raced, crashed, mangled and otherwise just abused. There isn't much on it anymore that hasn't been replaced. About the only thing that hasn't been a problem is the frame...go figure. I'll tell you what it isn't: A luxury sports sedan, a house, a diesel pickup, a tractor...my wife or my children so it doesn't get treated as such. It is after all, two wheels and a motor. Nothing more.

mick, are you not pissed that you paid the same money as the next guy that may have gotten a better looking conversion from service honda? why would you settle? you wouldnt accept a brand new vehicle with a big dent in the side of it or misaligned bumpers would you? after all it wouldnt impact the ride quality or performance.....then why settle on a dirt bike... if service honda truely stands behind their products why have they not replaced your frame as well as stouffers.

The answer is NO. I wouldn't be upset for paying what I did for the enjoyment I've gotten from this bike. Service Honda could give their AFs away from now on and I wouldn't say one negative word about it. I am not entitled to anything but a good ride. I got it. What anybody pays for these bikes is non of my concern. And it curtainly wasn't settling. I wouldn't ride a CR500AF if I had settled. I'd have a fourstroke...where was mike in DEC02? Not selling AFs. Why hasn't S/H replaced my frame? I haven't asked them too. Like I said, in my garage it's just a toy.

not sure what the hype is about a "zero time" this or that mentioned here several times. is the bike going to be ridden? sat on? kicked over? the zero time title has a lifespan of about ZERO once its in a riders hands.....sounds like more money than brains syndrome to me.

The hype is I don't want your shit sandwich. If I give her Hep B that's ok. But if she gives me your HB then I've got a fucking problem...Keep your ball of fuck, I'll pass. I'd rather make my own. Get it? And I'm not rich, but I can afford a new bike. Wasn't that difficult.

This isn't in defense for anybody. It's simply clearification on my point of view. I ride and race dirt bikes. Not Farrari's. Mike's builds are wonderfull, but pretty welds and heat treating mean dick to me. We aren't comparing an F4i to a RR. They are only seperated cosmetically. 10 minutes into a ride they all look alike anyways. In my opinion many of you think way to hard about this like we're dabating evolution vs. creationism. I think it's time for some of you to let the hamster take a knee and drink some water you've been running him so hard upstairs. Any more thinking about this you may have a seizure. The shop that gets my business next is going to be the one who can build me a new bike to put my current motor into the cheapest...whoever the hell that might be? Service Honda has an excellent track record given my experience with this bike. But maybe I can find a good frame and have Mike build me one for a better price? Either way rest assured cosmetic looks and heat treating will not be a factor in my decision criteria.

[Balaclava]

The hype is I don't want your shit sandwich. If I give her Hep B that's ok. But if she gives me your HB then I've got a fucking problem...Keep your ball of fuck, I'll pass.

Mick is scary...

[MICK]

Wait until you see what I look like on a bad day

[AlisoBob]

They are only seperated cosmetically.

Not true...

TTM bikes are superior in design, metalurgy, and construction

TTM bikes come sprung and valved for you, and your application, SH does not, its a $800 - $1200 dollar upgrade.

TTM will return any parts taken off for upgarades.( Chains, clutch covers, bars, etc..) S/H does not and keeps them to resell to other customers

TTM will build the bike any way you see fit. S/H will not.

TTM charges you ONCE to build the bike. S/H charges you $100 to "swap" handelbars, $100 to "mount " a steering stablizer, $100 to "add" a Mugura clutch... It takes 5 minutes to install a Magura...

There are MANY differences between S/H , TTM..... Its not just cosmetic, in fact... cosmetics are just the result of quality assembly, not the goal.

[teamdns]

They are only seperated cosmetically.

Not true...

TTM bikes are superior in design, metalurgy, and construction

TTM bikes come sprung and valved for you, and your application, SH does not, its a $800 - $1200 dollar upgrade.

TTM will return any parts taken off for upgarades.( Chains, clutch covers, bars, etc..) S/H does not and keeps them to resell to other customers

TTM will build the bike any way you see fit. S/H will not.

TTM charges you ONCE to build the bike. S/H charges you $100 to "swap" handelbars, $100 to "mount " a steering stablizer, $100 to "add" a Mugura clutch... It takes 5 minutes to install a Magura...

There are MANY differences between S/H , TTM..... Its not just cosmetic, in fact... cosmetics are just the result of quality assembly, not the goal.

x's 2

[Balaclava]

haha but dude i take offence, my bike is not a ball of fuck!!

you're a cool dude mick but you gotta stop scaring me...

[97af]

I ride and race dirt bikes. Not Farrari's.

I ride and race dirt bikes too.Yea, you're right. I think I'll just quit washing them and park them on the side of the house when I'm done with them. It'll save me a ton of time and wear and tear on the pressure washer.
And by the way...Its "Ferrari".

[teamdns]

And by the way...Its "Ferrari".

enzo would be proud of you mike

[JBaze]

It looks to me like Mike does a single pass when he welds his frames.
Maybe AJ is welding his using multiple passes??

I might be wrong but looking at the SH bikes they use a spool gun wire feeder to weld their frames, and Mike uses TIG or heli arc. 2 completely different types of welding.

[MICK]

1. TTM bikes are superior in design, metalurgy, and construction

2. TTM bikes come sprung and valved for you, and your application, SH does not, its a $800 - $1200 dollar upgrade.

3. TTM will return any parts taken off for upgarades.( Chains, clutch covers, bars, etc..) S/H does not and keeps them to resell to other customers

4. TTM will build the bike any way you see fit. S/H will not.

5. TTM charges you ONCE to build the bike. S/H charges you $100 to "swap" handelbars, $100 to "mount " a steering stablizer, $100 to "add" a Mugura clutch... It takes 5 minutes to install a Magura...

1. I don't care, makes no difference when the gate drops.
2. S/H does charge an arm and a leg for this. Fortunately I loved the stock '03 valving.
3. Don't remind me
4. How doesn't S/H? I got just the bike I wanted
5. Do it yourself...

I understand what you're saying. I agree. Difference is I don't hold your arguments in as high a regard as you do. These points are negligable IMO.

I ride and race dirt bikes too.Yea, you're right. I think I'll just quit washing them and park them on the side of the house when I'm done with them. It'll save me a ton of time and wear and tear on the pressure washer.

Come to think of it...if you can't take care of your bike why don't you stop wiping your ass to? Hell save some more money and stop using soap and shampoo! A man of the house should be obligated to take damn good care of everything he owns. And help his neighbors take care of their shit too!! I don't know what track you came off thinking because my bike doesn't have a heat treated frame I shouldn't take care of it. You know what? I own a Dodge Neon too! Take care of it like it's a BMW. When your TTM build has seven years of riding and racing feel free to chime in here bro...


I beat it to hell all day. When I'm finished fucking it up I take it apart and everything gets cleaned and inspected. As per everything I own. But it's still just a bike. A toy. Nothing to get all philosophical about...It's an aluminum framed CR500. Jesus we're not splitting atoms here

*And Balaclava I wasn't calling you out specifically. I run away from used bikes as fast as I can. The proverbial ball of fuck is anything you take second hand. Sloppy seconds if you will.

[TYSTYX]

[Balaclava]

um dude, it kinda looks like you take very good care of that bike. It's a beaut...just a bike though??...it's really quite a bit cooler then a freekin dodge neon...

*And Balaclava I wasn't calling you out specifically. I run away from used bikes as fast as I can. The proverbial ball of fuck is anything you take second hand. Sloppy seconds if you will.

It's cool man i know what you are talking about...i personally like getting used bikes and then rebuilding them to look brand new...i find it's even better because i make them the way i want em'...nothing too hard about changing bearings and seals or plastics...

[teemtrubble]

Mick your points are valid and noted.

Here is what I meant about all industries....

After posting yesterday teamdns and I went to go and get something to eat.

We went to Burger King drive thru I order a "number 2 with a Dr. Pepper" the person asks me if I want a combo? My reply was "I thought that was a combo?" he say 's "oh yeah" then say's "would you like a small, medium or large? I tell him "a small please" he say's "so that's a medium with what kind of drink?" while we were eating I told Ryan now I remember why I don't eat this shit! but, it's only a burger right?

Because people just say ok that's the way it's supposed to be.

Take a new Corvette and a similarly priced Ferrari or one that is even more and "today" I would rather have a new Corvette because it's better not a little but, a lot better and you'll still get people who'll say the Ferrari is better and why because it's a "Ferrari" is the new Corvette less of a car because it's a new Generation Corvette of course not it's still a better car but, that could change "tomorrow" and I've owned a few Ferrari's...

[teamdns]

Nothing to get all philosophical about...It's an aluminum framed CR500. Jesus we're not splitting atoms here

and thats why you settle for the substandard workmanship you got.

you are paying top dollar for a dirt bike (toy or not) why cant you get in return top dollar quality, workmanship and engineering.....

i would expect to see that kind of work from a friend of a friend who said they know how to weld and fabricate....most of the home builds look better than the SH's pictured around. why cant AJ just answer some simple questions that have been brought up a hundred times...

[AlisoBob]

3. TTM will return any parts taken off for upgarades.( Chains, clutch covers, bars, etc..) S/H does not and keeps them to resell to other customers

3. Don't remind me

If that isnt reason enough not to do business with S/H, what is ?

[teemtrubble]

And by the way...Its "Ferrari".

enzo would be proud of you mike

FUCK Enzo he never gave me a deal on my second one

[teemtrubble]

I ride and race dirt bikes. Not Farrari's.

I ride and race dirt bikes too.Yea, you're right. I think I'll just quit washing them and park them on the side of the house when I'm done with them. It'll save me a ton of time and wear and tear on the pressure washer.
And by the way...Its "Ferrari".

Stop buying cheap pressure washers

[MICK]

um dude, it kinda looks like you take very good care of that bike. It's a beaut...just a bike though??...it's really quite a bit cooler then a freekin dodge neon...

Yes just a "little" bit cooler than a fag Neon But it is what it is...I take care of the grocery getter just the same.

Mike my arguments aren't about you or the work you do. It's not a Service Honda vs. TTM thread. Atleast in my mind. The bottom line is I bought a bike, which I don't feel I overpaid for, and I've had a wonderfull time enjoying it from coast to coast, track to trail. I don't see that changing any time soon and I know for a fact your outstanding worksmanship wouldn't change that. Service Honda's work isn't as clean, but it hasn't to this day nor do I see it in the future letting me down. It's not as pretty, but it's sound.

and thats why you settle for the substandard workmanship you got.

I understand you feel that way. Understand that I don't. Substandard IMO is welding my KX frame back together after every race. Service Honda's work on my bike has been strong as an ox. No complaints here...

you are paying top dollar for a dirt bike (toy or not) why cant you get in return top dollar quality, workmanship and engineering.

Again I understand you feel $8,300 for a brand new bike is top dollar. I feel however that $8,988 for a four stroke is in fact "top dollar" and in retrospect my bike was a down right steal.

why cant AJ just answer some simple questions that have been brought up a hundred times...

Finally! Something we agree on...

If that isnt reason enough not to do business with S/H, what is ?

In my case I can easily look past this. They gave me free tie downs, a loading ramp and gloves. It's not like I asked for them and they said "NO". Honestly I was giggling like a school girl when they wheeled my bike from around back and started it up. My brain basically took a shit on me...

*I'm talking about the OEM engine covers S/H kept as I requested the billet aluminum ones.