Who's got the balls to do a 09 ?

[nmdesertrider]

The gen 4 feels like your steering a bicycle, it felt weird and you couldn't really rear wheel steer it.
Mine is a blast in the sand and steers really good if you stick it in hard into a turn.
It's unridable in the tight stuff though. The 85 ignition has no retard and kicks sh*t out the back end even when your a hair off idle.
I am thinking of getting an old yz250 and slop it out for the mountains.

[Balaclava]

i got my eye on a 87 engine with a pvl ignition system...supposedly the PVL eliminates the rev limiter, for longer acceleration between shifts. Has anyone ever run an engine with this ignition? i'm wondering if it would have more of a retard then stock?

does the 87 have the same headstay and swingarm bushing differences as the 86?

I don't want to spend another 1000$+ for a 94+ engine, and i'm thinking of going oldschool to save $$ and to get the black motor...nmdesertrider do you think these older engines are too torquey to ride in the tight stuff? my 97 engine seems easy to ride in tight stuff, basically never shift it into first...

[nmdesertrider]

Anything is possible-- I am sure you can set up any year for the mountains... I think there are too many compromises if you set up a bike so it will ride in both

[Slow old Fart]

steers alright...the ass end is still jumpy here and there but going straight in sand is childs play...

-+The ass end does lick to kick side to side but the CR 250 gen 3 is the same way.

[dannygraves]

i got my eye on a 87 engine with a pvl ignition system...supposedly the PVL eliminates the rev limiter, for longer acceleration between shifts. Has anyone ever run an engine with this ignition? i'm wondering if it would have more of a retard then stock?

does the 87 have the same headstay and swingarm bushing differences as the 86?

I don't want to spend another 1000$+ for a 94+ engine, and i'm thinking of going oldschool to save $$ and to get the black motor...nmdesertrider do you think these older engines are too torquey to ride in the tight stuff? my 97 engine seems easy to ride in tight stuff, basically never shift it into first...

'89 was the first year of the 17mm bushings. So '85-'88 all need the bushings worked on.
I honestly think a '90+ motor makes a much better trail bike!

[Roostius_Maximus]

i have a hard time in the tight hilly trails on my "86 engined '88, it likes to wheelie hard and when i'm in this one place thats a tight left banked corner in the bush, i always roll into it in 3rd and it pulls hard, but at almost the end of the corner gets in to its rang where you swear the tire has broke loose cuz the power hits so hard and it s wheelie time.
I know with my '88 enigne in the '88 chassis it didnt have that hit and you could hold it wicked at the same point and it didnt make that kinda power so it would stay in the groove and was probably faster on the ground cuz i wasnt backing off to regain controll! trees hurt

[AJ]

the 04-09 gen 4 CRF250 chassis is the best *500AF* i've ridden

in my opinion the new 09 crf450 at best *might* finally be able to approach or equal it?
but i dont really think it will.

maybe i just dont dig CRF450 chassis..
ive never ridden one of any year that i thought was "fantastic"

good ? ,yes! ,but not great.

[dannygraves]

ya, I guess everyone is different, I don't like the way my gen-4 rides and actually prefer my gen-1 in the type of riding I do....
of coarse, I don't ride MX, I ride desert, dunes and ST

[ShanMan]

gen 2 chassis with gen 4 suspension...FTW!!!

[Slow old Fart]

the 04-09 gen 4 CRF250 chassis is the best *500AF* i've ridden

in my opinion the new 09 crf450 at best *might* finally be able to approach or equal it?
but i dont really think it will.

maybe i just dont dig CRF450 chassis..
ive never ridden one of any year that i thought was "fantastic"

good ? ,yes! ,but not great.

Those GEN 4 chasses are tweaky as hell. I had both a gen 4 250 and 450 CRF and they handled real similar,in loose terrain the gen 3's are way more surefooted. When a GEN 4 comes stock with a steering dampner that tells you something about the bike doesn't it!

500's are meant for speeds that a 250 and 125 have a hard time maintaining so stability is a big issue on a 500. This guy is talking about on prepped motoX tracks SMALL TRACKS! but for all conditions I believe a GEN 3 is superior.

AJ I do know you guy's are in the business to make money and that is good but the botttom line for you is $'s and every thing else is a second consideration. BETTER HANDLING IN WHAT WAY??????? because it dam sure is not high speed 500 stuff!

I will give some steering prowess up for a 500 that goes straight in rough terrain and set's up for corners right because on a 500 the straights and fast whoops is where they win over smaller bikes.

[Balaclava]

surefooted. When a GEN 4 comes stock with a steering dampner that tells you something about the bike doesn't it!

i agree with that...

[AJ]

slow old fart-


i've taken plenty of shots that my opinion is biased by how much money it makes me , or doesnt make me.


i suppose from the outside looking in,, thats fair enough.


but ive an idea..
or a suggestion at least?

how about giving me some credit where it is due?

that my opiniion might just simply be that, my opinion from my own personal RIDING and racing experience, without regard to anything else.

it is a possibility you know?

I rode and raced steelies for a long time, i've been building these AF bikes far longer than anyone, certainly have more seat time on most every style conversion possible out there.
and as much as a do truly love building and riding CR500AF's,

i work for a company,,where my salary doesnt change regardless wether the 500 project is a go , or a bust.


so my opinion is just that,
exactly how i feel about a particular bikes handling.


will it match every other riders on the planets' opinion ? of course not.


the 2008 and 2009 CRF250R comes with a sterring stabilizer because honda went with 22mm triple clamp offset verses the long standing 24mm they have used for a few decades.

in my opinion.. the 2005 thru 07 CRF250R based 500AFs were better handling than any of the generations before..
the 08 and 09 with the 22mm offset is even better.

they throw nto a corner easier, handle great,, flick around quite easily in there air and arw a pleaure to ride,,
a gen 3 is a fun bike ,qnd veery wel mannered,
but no ,ride them back to back , in MX or woods riding ,or tighter dsingle track,
and the gen 3's are not as good of handling bike.
compared stock vs stock (suspension wise)


that should be qualified with the following -

i like a bike to corner and corner well, if i even think about diving for an inside line, i want it to already be going there..and with a good suspension set up thats possible on most any chassis..
but easier on the new ones.

and most importantly
no!
i dont ride open high speed desert.
(truth is i would run a scotts or other brand stabilizer on ANY of the AF generatioms in that riding scenerio anyway) )


i have never ridden any CRF450 chassis that a really "loved"


that sjust me..

i'm a small rider, mostly mx, and have my particular tastes

large guys might prefer the bigger chassis and layout of 450s or other frame gens..


like always
yer milage may vary

[MICK]

With respect to the large desert crowd here...I would hate to ride a bike you consider "GOOD". I read about some of the things you guys do to your bikes and it makes me cringe. Not that I don't understand what you're doing but I realize our priorities are very different. I'm glad you think the Gen 4s are twitchy and unstable at speed Slow old Fart, because those are the bikes I like the most around the track and trail. I second AJs comments about wanting a bike to turn when the thought just crosses my mind. If I went riding out in the dez with some of you boys I'd just ride my KX. Pass you like you were moving backwards and later ask you why you ride an aluminum framed CR500 and not a steel framed KX5. I can smoke a cigarette in one hand and pound desert whoops at speed on that thing until the cows come home

But many of us do ride our AFs in other places than the sand box and could care less if it shakes a little at speed. Most stability issues are suspension related anyway, maybe it's due time to have the boingers serviced? I've been riding a Gen 4 250F quite a bit lately and love the way it handles. Can't get my mind off putting my 500 motor in one. All things considered, I am amazed how well balanced my Gen 3 is. It hasn't thrown fits at any speed, over any terrain. Save for the short period my forks were junk

[Slow old Fart]

What I am saying is a gen 3 will handle a wide variety of terrains better.

The GEN 4 is a pure moto bike and has more flaws when used in multiple terrains.

It is just not desert riding, yes a KX 5 is king their,some terrains a more stable front end works better to hook up in some conditions where a gen 4 has trouble. Yes a gen 4 is better when conditions are right but when they are not optimal for the quick steering the gen 3 works better.

AJ also claims the 125 conversion was the best until the CRF 250 showed up and by specs that puppy should shake like a wett noddle ?

[MICK]

What I am saying is a gen 3 will handle a wide variety of terrains better. The GEN 4 is a pure moto bike and has more flaws when used in multiple terrains.

This is a good example of our differences. I'm looking for a bike with a more focused build. I'll easily trade stability for maneuverability these days. I want a bike that's purpose built to rail corners...nothing more.

AJ also claims the 125 conversion was the best until the CRF 250 showed up and by specs that puppy should shake like a wett noddle ?

The 125 or 250F should shake like a wet noodle? I would think you're talking about them both. I have ridden each of them and I didn't think either one was unstable. Granted the 125 was gutless and I didn't reach speeds on either of them to really push the chassis. But the 125 was no surprise, it handles like a mountain bike with a motor. The Gen 4 250F just flat rails. So either bike is an excellent platform in my opinion. You may not want such a dedicated track weapon...but I do. If you guys like the Gen 3s so much go ahead and give me an offer. Flatter me enough the chassis could be yours next week

[teemtrubble]

You deffinetly deserve credit AJ where credit is due that's for sure

Where stock suspension is concerned in comparison with out revalving I disagree and prefer a GEN3 but, nobody has let me beat up their 08-09 CRF250 yet! and just sitting on one, I'm not impressed with the 450

[MICK]

and just sitting on one, I'm not impressed with the 450

It's terrible, but I wouldn't take a truck load of 450s if I could have just one 250F to put my motor in. I know I'll get flamed by everybody who rides 450s for saying this. But I don't feel they do anything, not one single solitary thing BETTER than my bike. A couple things they do AS well...
I had the fortunate opportunity to ride some private team's 450s this summer. I thought, "Oh this is it, these are what all the hype is about!" Uhhh...no dice brother. Eight laps and parked them. Sat in their air conditioned trailer for an hour playing spades with their girl friends waiting for them to stop riding my bike
The 250Fs atleast handle real sharp and are fun to ride in that regard. I wouldn't piss on fire to put a 450 out.

[nmdesertrider]

I would say the best of both worlds would be a GEN 3 250, my buddy has a SH500AF and that thing tracks good and turns like a SOB.

But what should SH do? The CR250 is history and they have to move on.

[Slow old Fart]

Alot of it is terrain dependent and setup. A gen 3 250 to me is to small other than that it would be my bike.

Jack at he other site liked his gen 1 250 500 better than his GEN 3 250 500 for whoops and high speed. It is hard to get a bike that does all well. And I will take my CRF 450 GEN 3 500 anyday over a GEN 1 250 500.

The best one I have found for do it all was my 1972 Hodoka Wombat.

[AlisoBob]

You deffinetly deserve credit AJ where credit is due that's for sure

Yup....

[pstoffers]

You deffinetly deserve credit AJ where credit is due that's for sure

Yup....

X3

[dannygraves]

see, everyone is arguing over nothing... the gen-4 makes a great MX and tight ST bike, but sucks ballz everywhere else, the gen-3 is a more well rounded bike that can hold its own everywhere, and my gen-1 rocks in the high speed and whoops, makig it perfect for a dunes bike.
I ride dunes, and Apex, which is basically nasty rocky ST w/ sand dunes in the middle, gravel washes and some mini mx tracks carved out of the natual landscape.
my gen-4 was am inprovement in the very tight ST and the little MX type stuff, the thing just freaken turns and turns fast! its like riding a GSXR on the dirt
but when I hit the washes and dunes I seriously fear for my life while death gripping so hard I cramp up!
my gen-4 will be for sale soon

[Roostius_Maximus]

Danny, how far off is that gen3 you're dooing, i want to hear your opinion on it when completed!

[dannygraves]

I'm waiting for the azzhat I built that other gen4 for to bring me my front axle, then all I have to do is assemble. The problem though is, I was gonna use my built motor out of the gen-1, but I was so pleased with my gen-1 last weekend at dumont, that I think I am going to build up my '89 motor and drop it in the gen-3. that being the case it will be a while...

the gen-3 I'm taking my time on and not sparing anything. both my gen-4 and gen-1 didn't come out quite as I'd like because I was too anxious to ride. I even got the full bailey kit for the gen-3 the gen-3 is getting every single bearing replaced, the suspension done and everything before final assembly so I can be confident in the perfect bike. the '89 motor I'm using is getting all new bearings and seals and the jug was replaced with new by a previous owner with very little time on it and a clean wiseco, so she is getting some major porting treatment

[Roostius_Maximus]

right on, i'm going to do this gen3 cr250, but i've got til march likely, dammn snow's a comin! I'll keep an eye out for the posts of your build! I'm thinking about that frame pressing method.

i was also going to ask you what you'd done with that port work again? I mocked up this '88 assembly again today to spec it out, and with no gasket the piston matches the transfer port floor, and the piston isnt outta the deck yet!