15 Tooth Countershaft

[FZ1426]

Does anybody run a 15? Are there any issues with the chain hitting the case?

[AlisoBob]

It " Self-Clearences" it......




Standard chains are best.... Orings come real close, I think the thinner "X" ring chains might fit better.

[MICK]

I just got a 15 last week. Had to take a little of the case saver so the chain wouldn't rub it. I'm using a non o-ring Sidewinder chain so it's got case clearance for days.
I'm experimenting with a 15 / 52 combination. I've heard that using larger sprockets but keeping roughly the same overall ratio reduces drag on the motor. I know the same principle works real well on snowmobiles, larger wheels let the track spin easier. I figure if nothing else it'll be easier on the chain.

[ISBB]

My xring does not have a clearance issue... RKXSO520

[AlisoBob]

I've heard that using larger sprockets but keeping roughly the same overall ratio reduces drag on the motor.

Your adding allot of weight that way....

Keeping the chain shorter would be the way to go, I thibk.

[MICK]

Your adding allot of weight that way....

Keeping the chain shorter would be the way to go, I think.

Well I thought so too, but the chain and sprockets are lighter than the units they replaced. So I'm not gaining any weight. The problem is I'll never know for curtain if it was the gearing or the 3lbs of unsprung weight I took out of the drive components that made the difference. I've toyed with the idea of purchasing a cheap set of sprockets in my old ratio to test the theory.

[MojoScojo]

Using a smaller countershaft sprocket generates more wear and more friction as it causes the chain to have to bend more turning a tighter radius.


....OMG, I can't believe I'm talking about this....AGAIN.

[FZ1426]

I just got a 15 last week. Had to take a little of the case saver so the chain wouldn't rub it. I'm using a non o-ring Sidewinder chain so it's got case clearance for days.
I'm experimenting with a 15 / 52 combination. I've heard that using larger sprockets but keeping roughly the same overall ratio reduces drag on the motor. I know the same principle works real well on snowmobiles, larger wheels let the track spin easier. I figure if nothing else it'll be easier on the chain.

Right up front, I don't know jack about snowmobiles, but on a cr500 I don't think that would make an even remotely perceivable difference. For me the whole point is to tone it down and make it more controllable as opposed to trying to reduce drag on the motor. The drag on the motor that counts most is traction, and there's almost never enough for a 500...

[MICK]

I'm not expecting a dramatic change. If I could just tell a difference one way or the other that would be cool. But you never know until you try. I want the rear end to spin like a bicycle tire. Zero resistance. I'm pretty close

For me the whole point is to tone it down and make it more controllable as opposed to trying to reduce drag on the motor.

Flywheel weights work great for this. And they don't require you to gear your bike to the moon

[FZ1426]

I'm not expecting a dramatic change. If I could just tell a difference one way or the other that would be cool. But you never know until you try. I want the rear end to spin like a bicycle tire. Zero resistance. I'm pretty close

For me the whole point is to tone it down and make it more controllable as opposed to trying to reduce drag on the motor.

Flywheel weights work great for this. And they don't require you to gear your bike to the moon

Yeah. I could see how on a snowmobile that might be something with all that traction from that big old track belt thing. But out here in the socal desert you need more top speed. And on a track you need a mellower hit.

[MICK]

on a track you need a mellower hit.

Duuuuude...on a track you need to use more than 1st and 2nd. You try gearing your bike up to smooth out the power you'll be going nowhere...fast. For all but the desert riding you do a CR500 can be geared down and beneift just about any rider.

I just received a cheapo aluminum 49 tooth rear. This weekend I shall swap my old 14t and this 49 with the old chain back and forth with the new 15/52 combo. Conduct a good back to back comparo.

[M.F.D.B.]

I'm experimenting with a 15 / 52 combination. I've heard that using larger sprockets but keeping roughly the same overall ratio reduces drag on the motor.

Thats like saying that weighing a boat down makes it plane faster...

[MICK]

It would seem that way...
My bike feels a good deal better lately and it's difficult for me to say "is it the gearing? Or a combination of other things?" I find it hard to believe the changes to the motor are responsible themselves? If you're thinking the sprockets weigh MORE than the originals that isn't the case. However I understand to some degree they may generate more inertia. This Sunday and Monday I'll have a better understanding of how this gearing and less rotating mass each have an impact on the motor.

[dannygraves]

making a taller final drive ratio on a cr500 DOES NOT MAKE IT MORE CONTROLABLE! infact it has the opposite effect. Since the 500 has so much grunt down low, the way to make it more controlable is to ride around in higher revs with lower gearing. if you ride around in hairy shit like ST or the nasty rocky shit we ride in here, you want to go with lower gearing, so you can hit the nasys in 1st or second and have the revs up higher. when you have the gearing too tall (I tried 15/45 to get a good top speed once) it will bogg in 1st in the nastys, then get some uncontrolable wheel spin, followed why a gnarly wheelie, then some looping action... I know, it happened to me

[MICK]

I would rather gear the bike down and use second, than gear it up and use first. It makes the tranny more versatile for my riding. But as FZ1426 said, he only rides in the dez so gearing it up just makes good sense.

Nothing I've done to my bike has EVER been to mellow or tame the hit. Quite the opposite. To this point I've been trying to get it to hit harder and lower in the power and still carry each gear to the moon. I would eventually like to only use one or two gears on a track. 3rd and 4th. The titanium engine parts, light free rolling chain and lighter sprockets are intended to let the motor build power sooner so I can pull 3rd through a 2nd gear corner, but not have to grab 4th down the next straight. I'm very close right now and I'm running out of options. I'm about to try some better wheel bearings.

[dannygraves]

have you tried a cr250 cdi? on my gen-1 it gave it way more hit down low, more overerv and just flat out better acceleration. the only down side is it is just plain hard to control.

[kkvslayer]

have you tried a cr250 cdi? on my gen-1 it gave it way more hit down low, more overerv and just flat out better acceleration. the only down side is it is just plain hard to control.

Sounds like fun I think I'm gonna go this route with my A/F,I know your using only the CDI,will the complete 250 Ignition produce the same results?

[MICK]

I've been thinking hard about it and putting together parts lists. I think I PM'd you about it a couple weeks ago. It's on my list of things to try. But I have to be carefull what I do now because I'm close to the edge of uncontrolability for my riding level. I have good reason to feel the 250 cdi setup would put me well over the top. I still have to be able to ride the bike fast...and not get owned by my 500.

If it wasn't you I PM'd about the 250 setups I'd appreciate a PM with a list of things you had to purchase to finish the job. Thanks for the insight Danny.

[dannygraves]

ya, if you think its close, than the 250 cdi will put you way over the limit. hands down the best mod for power.
on an '86 (which is whats in my gen-1) you only need the 250 cd from '86-'88
on a '87+ you need the 250 cdi, stator w/ plate and flywheel, but can still use the 500 coil.
'03 250 is the last year that will work and needs to be modified (just the stator plate) either '99 or '01 is the last year that the plate mated with the cases properly. '98-'01 should be the best years since it went digital and uses a form of traction control. andy other year cr250 will swap over '89-'92 or '93-'96
the '97 cdi was known for some bugs being the first year digi cdi, so avoid it.
'04+ used a TPS, so it would only work if you used the cr250 carb.

[M.F.D.B.]

The titanium engine parts...

light free rolling chain and lighter sprockets are intended to let the motor build power sooner...

If you put on larger CS AND rear sprockets they ARE NOT lighter, AND the extra weight is further from the center adding a higher moment of inertia as well. Have you tried lightening the crank and or flywheel yet??

If you want to build power faster by increasing efficiency then you need to use a non O-ring chain, and SMALLER sprockets and if possible a smaller pitch gear setup. This is what I did on my street bike. Went down to a 520 from a 530 chain, and used lighter tri-metal sprockets. BIG difference!!

[MICK]

M.F.D.B. take a power knap man and think about what you said.

Never mind I'll just tell you so it comes faster:
1. The stock 14t sprocket weighs 130 grams. A Pro Taper 15t sprocket weighs 124 grams.
2. A Sidewinder 49t Ti-Moly sprocket weighs 48 ounces. A 52t Ironman weighs 22 ounces.

I know a larger diameter sprocket will increase inertia. But in the case of the Ironman sprocket it's so much lighter I don't believe this is the case. I use non o-ring chains. My new chain is actually lighter than the previous by 2 ounces.

I use a smaller pitch combo on my superbike too. It won't work for a dirtbike. On our superbikes we're only changing chain width. To go to a smaller pitch chain than a 520 means changing the length as well (520-420). Now you've got to add links to make the reach. Because the links are shorter you've got to add teeth to the sprocket to acheive your original gearing. I've tried this already. It's not a road worth traveling with the 500. Unless you know somebody who produces lightweight 420 pitch sprockets for a CR500? I couldn't find any. I'm with you on this one though, the 520 pitch works wonderfully compared to a 530!

Titanium engine goodies:
clutch spring bolts, clutch hub nut, clutch gear bolts, primary drive gear bolt, flywheel nut & countershaft sprocket bolt. Every washer in the right side crank case was replaced with aluminum units. The clutch hub and OEM basket have been indexed to provide more oil passages. The front and rear rotor and sprocket bolts are Ti as well. Have Ti clutch springs but aren't using them. Only took me a whole of 7 years to pillage most of that shit...oh and Mettec helped complete it.

Have you tried lightening the crank and or flywheel yet??

Done and done...

[100hp honda]

The titanium engine parts...

light free rolling chain and lighter sprockets are intended to let the motor build power sooner...

If you put on larger CS AND rear sprockets they ARE NOT lighter, AND the extra weight is further from the center adding a higher moment of inertia as well. Have you tried lightening the crank and or flywheel yet??

If you want to build power faster by increasing efficiency then you need to use a non O-ring chain, and SMALLER sprockets and if possible a smaller pitch gear setup. This is what I did on my street bike. Went down to a 520 from a 530 chain, and used lighter tri-metal sprockets. BIG difference!!

520 chain on 1000cc streetbike

[MICK]

520 chain on 1000cc streetbike

Yup, going on two years of track use on my RC51...and a non o-ring chain on an Open Class dirt bike

I'm all fuckered up...

[M.F.D.B.]

1. The stock 14t sprocket weighs 130 grams. A Pro Taper 15t sprocket weighs 124 grams.
2. A Sidewinder 49t Ti-Moly sprocket weighs 48 ounces. A 52t Ironman weighs 22 ounces.

Now who needs the power knap?? Chucklehead, if you went from stock to the SAME SIZE aftermarket you would be saving MORE mass then you are now...

I know a larger diameter sprocket will increase inertia. But in the case of the Ironman sprocket it's so much lighter I don't believe this is the case.

See above...

To go to a smaller pitch chain than a 520 means changing the length as well (520-420).

SO??

Now you've got to add links to make the reach. Because the links are shorter you've got to add teeth to the sprocket to acheive your original gearing.

Uhh...im not sure where to start...ok here goes, gear RATIO is just that a RATIO. You take the large gear and devide it by the small. So I have a question for you:

1) If you have 2 CS sprockets and 2 rear sprockets, the CS's are both 2" in diameter and the rears are both 6". One sprocket pair has 15 tooth CS and 50 tooth rear. The other pair has 30 tooth front and 100 tooth rear which pair would give you better acceleration??

I've tried this already. It's not a road worth traveling with the 500. Unless you know somebody who produces lightweight 420 pitch sprockets for a CR500? I couldn't find any.

If you got the scratch to buy all that titanium, you got enough to have 420 gears made. Question is, does anyone make a 420 chain strong enough?? If not, I know there are Titanium 520's...

[M.F.D.B.]

520 chain on 1000cc streetbike

Yep, my buddies 185hp ATRW Gixxer uses the same chain I do, no probs, thats why I feel a 520 is MUCHO overkill on a dirt bike...

My bike is "only" 152hp and my chain is a couple years old and doing fine. Im willing to bet my CBR has a little bit more traction, goes a little faster, and stretches a chain a bit more then my 450 or 500!!

I think 420 pitch would be fine, but im not willing to spend that much clam to convert my dirt bike. Not to mention, as good as many people here say I am, I still think suspension would make me faster then a chain!!