Service Hondas "Improved Ignition" vs OEM

[Ported&Polished]

I'm getting excited about stators now. I just bought a Ricky Stator 200 watt unit for my XR650R and it was a snap to install. It mounts inside the flywheel like stock and has 2 100 watt hook ups. At first I ran 100 watts, and the lights still dimmed at idle. Then I put the two leads together for 200 watts, and wow! MY lights don't dim at idle, and are bright as hell! 200 watts on a cr500 will be awesome, put me down for one Mike!

[90cr500guy]

I'm really happy with the SH set up I have. No starting issues

[Wheelie-Gene]

I sat here last night and read every reply, no wonder I'm a zombie this morning.
I spent some time on the other forum, and did some research on the SH ignition/lighting kit. I went to SH's website and read their description on the unit. Hmmmm, improved performance, less of a hit and easier starting....I haven't gone back to check if I read all of that correctly, but now it doesn't make sense. More power w/a lesser hit. The 500 is a brutal machine....and they want to tame it down. Less hit = less power in my book. Easier starting? After reading all the gripes here in this thread, I'd say that's all b.s. as well. So who do you believe, the SH sales rep, the geeks at the forum that are SH loyalists? How about taking advice from the writing on the wall and not the name on the box.....
I was thinking about buying one of those systems for my street-legal motard, until now. I'm glad I came across this thread and found out the real truth. I'll gladly stick w/the stock system and opt for one of Mike's coils. I'll gladly keep the thrill of the had hit....that's what makes the 500 what it is.

So...the SH unit doesn't generate adequate voltage to fire the system. What voltage does it operate on??? 6volts? 8/12??? I haven't researched the specifics of the 500 mag system. What have you come up with, Rob?

How about plugging a 6/8/12 volt ni-cad battery into the system, to give it the necessary low/no RPM. Pulll the plug from the head, connect a battery to the system and rotate the engine slowly to check the results. We know that a pulse coil can operate on minimal RPM, but a charge coil can't.

Maybe someone can experiment w/an alternate power source to see if it'll light off easier. Strap a ni-cad battery (w/an on/off switch) to the inner air box or use a lantern battery and a quick disconncet. Try something.....

[britincali]

I'm really happy with the SH set up I have. No starting issues

With the amount of ass kissing you do on the other site your input dont mean shit.

[redrocket190]

I'm really happy with the SH set up I have. No starting issues

Maybe we can swap? I'm up for third time lucky.

[kball1313]

I have a SH ignition in my supermoto I just sold, as well as one other bike. I have had no starting problems. Luck, proper technique, whatever you call it who gives a shit. I have enough CR500's to run Mike's lighting as well, which I plan to do too. I just want to ride, so i'll buy what's available at the time. I'm just glad there's enough interest in these old bastards still that people are developing new parts for them rather than seeing them fade out.

[AlisoBob]

How about plugging a 6/8/12 volt ni-cad battery into the system.....

Batteries are D/C..... Stator output is A/C... No workie.....

From S/H....

http://www.servicehonda.com/parts/ignition.html

The Digital Ignition also comes with a high power light coil that puts out 130 watts with a flat output curve that means even at idle

Then later.....
Hi power stator produces 130 watts of lighting output at 5000 rpm.

I thought it was flat?

Regarding power increase...

big increase in low end power
instant power to easily clear an obstacle
more power than the old analog system.
A startling improvement in engine power
Produces greater power
Improve throttle response, low RPM torque and overall engine power


But hey, it also.....

improves traction vastly
less tire spin and more acceleration.

Yea, seems like alot of contrdictions and sales hype.

I think its great Service Honda developed a new ignition system. It does have some issues though... and those issues would never have come to light without the true feedback from owners like Stiles and Jay Lewis.

This site took allot of shit over this subject.... but the result is Service Honda having Electro-Sport re-engineer the product...

The Gen 2 Digital CDI ignition, with the issues resolved, should be a winner.

Mike was extremely patient for 18 months, and finally resolved the issue himself... With the purchase of a OEM Honda ignition.

That is the bigger issue to me.

[redrocket190]

I am delighted to hear that some folks can make this work for them, but my point is that luck and hope should not be part of the equation, and a new starting technique should not be required either unless there are significant other benefits. In my case the technique became a "show-stopper" and the lack of additional benefit just added to the frustration and disappointment.

Until ignition maps and/or dyno charts are published my belief will be a lot of the smoothing of the power, more traction etc. is coming simply from the extra flywheel weight - which of course can be added to the stock rotor. Also the stock SH jetting is rich for here in SoCal and takes some of the hit out of the mid-range anyway.

So the bottom line for me is the new ignition was most probably pursued to get more lighting power while living within the constraints of the stock ignition cover. I'd be very interested to know if the Electrosport ignition is offered on the AF model as standard.

[Ported&Polished]

I don't know if it is standard, but my buddy bought an AF from them, I rode it, it has no bottom end hit. It has no lighting, so not sure if it has that coil, but the bike definetly has no bottom end hit like a stock cr500. Mid and upper rpm is same of simular, and the bike is great and starts well.

[redrocket190]

...sounds like it has the same rotor, coils and CDI, but no lighting attached. The rotor is much larger than stock and machined so a peep under the cover would soon tell.

[90cr500guy]

I'm really happy with the SH set up I have. No starting issues

Maybe we can swap? I'm up for third time lucky.

Why would I want one that doesnt work?LOL
In all seriousness, you can ride my bike, or I suppose when I swap from one bike to the other, I can let you borrow it for a test.

[90cr500guy]

I'm really happy with the SH set up I have. No starting issues

With the amount of ass kissing you do on the other site your input dont mean shit.

All right, thats the pot calling the kettle black.
We all know your Bob's bitch! LOL
I have been in trouble over there plenty, dont feel I kiss as at all.

What ever helps you sleep Brit.

[Wheelie-Gene]

You are correct I was wrong, the again I was half asleep. Sorry....
I work with D/C systems every day and I forgot the CDIs use A/C. DUH...... it's powered by a spinning magnet.

After reading this, I just can't believe that these issues have been going on for so long.
So what it comes down to is that this system is designed for an e-start application (did Bob say it all boils down to a miss-application?) ??? Americans in general are pussiefied on their push-button conveniences. There are bikes that don't have electric start and there are people that have to kick them over, but that seems like it's slowly becoming a thing-of-the-past issue. After all, there's nothing worse than wondering if your bike will (kick) start or not. It has to be reliable and you shouldn't have to ride with any doubts (coming from experience), or bring 2/3 extra sets of legs along.

[MICK]

Well sure a Service Honda comes standard with this digital ignition...for another $500. It doesn't come for free.
Ported, I also felt my bike was somewhat weak on the bottom when I got it. If your friends bike is equiped similar to mine, I beleive it's just because it's not what you and I have been used to. A larger carb and PC exhuast should pretty much tell you it's soft on the bottom.
Rocket, reading about the electro-sport ignition it sounds pretty obvious to me the traction benefits are a result of a heavier flywheel. I'm in total aggreeance with you. And like you said, until evidence can prove otherwise, I seriously doubt it produces more power.

Never the less, it is nice that it's out there. It's a place for us and others to start. It's not like we have a lot of options here...I beleive AJ has said a number of times it was originally conceived as an off road ignition. The positive feedback I've heard tells me the ignition is a success in this aspect. I'm not interested in an off road ignition...as many of you aren't either. But I would be interested in a serious MX ignition, something considerably more aggressive than the current offering.

[kball1313]

Bob, I didn't know about the redesigned 2nd gen ign. The one I have is probably the new one cause I just got it a while ago and I would hope they weren't clearing out the old ones before the new ones were sold.

The only reason I bought this was I needed lights. I'm totally fine starting my cr's the old way and I wouldn't spend $500 to swap an ignition that still works fine for me otherwise. I have used a baja designs lighting coil too, which is great and makes tons of light, but the housing is bulky and you have to use a cheesy shifter.

I'm stoked to see what Mikes lightibg coil is gonna be cause it's under the stock cover too. Which is a big plus for me cause my boots are #12.

Later dudes.

[AlisoBob]

Bob, I didn't know about the redesigned 2nd gen ign. The one I have is probably the new one cause I just got it a while ago and I would hope they weren't clearing out the old ones before the new ones were sold.

They are not selling the Gen 2's yet. I believe the Gen 2 is the one recently tested in that MX mag article. It has a switch for different ignition curve maps.

Hope yours works.....



Mike's stator does not fit under the oem cover. Its like the old E-Line unit, but better, and thinner.

I've seen it...I cant wait for it either!

[redridermv]

I guess it is about time for me to give my 2 cents being a SH 2006 AFX owner.

I have yet to be stranded because of my current ignition. Back in the day when I raced D37 events with the dead start races I would have been a very pissed off man. RedRocket stated once that his bike “starts when it feels like it” is the perfect statement with my bike.

I have spoke (emailed) to AJ about the fact that I don’t trust the bike because I like to trail ride way back in the boonies and the possibility of my bike not starting would be catastrophic as a tow would be impossible.

AJ was a stand up guy and offered me the new ignition as soon as it was available and a stock loaner until then. I denied the stock loaner because my bike starts in 2-10 kicks and has yet to leave me stranded. I will report on the new ignition when it is ready.

Peace out,
Scott

[87CR500Rider]

I was really interested in the ignition until the hard starting issues surfaced. My 87' CR500 cranks in 1-2 kicks, EVERY time. Roll the engine over a few times when it's cold and kick the dogshit out of it. It's rare it takes 2 kicks to fire my bike up even after sitting for a few weeks. I'm not willing to give that up plus if it's gonna take the massive hit of the 87' engine away, I'm not interested. The SH ignition probably would reward me with quicker lap times but I don't necessarily ride to turn fast lap times, I ride to tear berms up and generally dig a trench and throw huge chunks of crap at my buddies. Basically if I wanted a bike with a smooth tractable power deliver I'd buy an XR600.

[AlisoBob]

[M.F.D.B.]

Im confused by all the guys chiming in with "I love that huge uncontrollable hit", or "if I wanted less power id buy a 250".

The fact is smoothing out a "power band" on a 500 doesnt mean less power over all, it means smoother more controllable power delivery. Why do you think MX and Super Crossers are all on thumpers?? Ask Danny about that huge nasty "hit". Power means NOTHING without CONTROL, that huge "hit" isnt going to make up for lack of riding skill when the bike is riding YOU.

I think too many guys buy 500's just to tell people they ride one...

I personally would rather have a broader power band with less "hit" but I sure as hell am not going to sacrifice reliability doing it...

[britincali]

Power means NOTHING without CONTROL, that huge "hit" isnt going to make up for lack of riding skill when the bike is riding YOU.

I think too many guys buy 500's just to tell people they ride one...

...

[nmdesertrider]

I am at 5000 feet, so my power is already down 10%. I like my 85 tuna can ignition.

[87CR500Rider]

Im confused by all the guys chiming in with "I love that huge uncontrollable hit", or "if I wanted less power id buy a 250".

The fact is smoothing out a "power band" on a 500 doesnt mean less power over all, it means smoother more controllable power delivery. Why do you think MX and Super Crossers are all on thumpers?? Ask Danny about that huge nasty "hit". Power means NOTHING without CONTROL, that huge "hit" isnt going to make up for lack of riding skill when the bike is riding YOU.

I think too many guys buy 500's just to tell people they ride one...

I personally would rather have a broader power band with less "hit" but I sure as hell am not going to sacrifice reliability doing it...

No need to be confused. When I did race seriously I swapped out my 87' for a 93' and took some laps. What a turd compared to the 87' engine. My lap times were faster on the older bike. Probably more due to the shitty forks on the 93' than the motor. That being said, I know I can launch out of corners faster with the 87' than I can with a later engine. I don't ride hard pack tracks (none in my area) so that makes a big difference. I guess you have to realize some of us didn't just trail ride and ride the novice class, some of us actually made money racing. Controlling the hit isn't hard for someone who knows how to ride well. Why are people riding 250's and 450s? Simple, displacement advantage. Not a good comparison. Those 450 guys don't want to have to run against a 500. Shoot, they don't want to have to run against a 380 2 stroke. I have no problems getting my bike to "hook up". If I'm spinning and sliding so is a 450 turning 10,000+ RPMs.

[ou812]

I think too many guys buy 500's just to tell people they ride one...

That's cause your young buck, back in the day when 450's weren't around ( cept the 4 gear one) real men rode open bikes, 4 bangers were ghey.

[MICK]

If I'm spinning and sliding so is a 450 turning 10,000+ RPMs.

Exactly what I've noticed. The broader power delivery aspect of those 450's is total B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T.! Are they capable of being more tractable? Sure they are. But you aren't staying out front that way. You've gotta turn 10 grand on those peices of shit or put up with riding mid pack. I hope to god every time I go to a track the conditions are slimmy. And everybody says, "oh gosh you might as well leave that explosive 500 in the back of your truck, you're not going to be able to keep that pointed in a straight line." Funny then how I can grunt around the track and make passes anyplace I want. Unless built otherwise, a CR500 is a pretty tractable motor if you ask me. I see damn little reason to want to smooth it out as is. But then again, if I hadn't learned to stay out of 1st and 2nd gears all the time, I might still think a CR500 was kinda pipey too.