SH gen 3 wishbone???

[dannygraves]

AJ, I'm the last one to bash anyone...except Brit of coarse! But I think the welds on those rads look like crap. I am just learning how to weld and setup my $200 harbor freight MIG for aluminum, and I am getting better looking welds than what I am seeing on those rads. I have no freaken clue what I am doing with welding and know I can make it look better than that
No one here is bashing, we're all just trying to do an honest comparrison and honestly the TTM bikes would never leave the shop with welds like that. My personal conversion would, but then again, I got my chassis for free and a motor for $350 and spend about $50 on 4043 wire and argon... Can't really beat a $400 gen4 regardless of what the welds look like.
just my .02
I have nothing against you or SH, just making comparrisons...

[teemtrubble]

Danny don't forget the 25% Helium!

[dannygraves]

[AJ]

bob
a short time ago you had little or no interest in 500AF bikes,
as you posted a few times it was silly to do as the steellies were just fine.
(unless my memory is really whacked)

now you have a big interest in them ,
thats cool.

but quite honestly dude,
from your past scoots, you own conversion, and your past outllooks on dirt bikes, you'd be the LAST person on earth i'd expect to focus on one apperence detail of any given model dirt bike,
and over look the bikes overall fit ,finish, and performence in the process..


I appreciate the sites feedback,take it seriously.

i also value the thousands of happy 500AF customers,,feedback as well.
as wel las th eseriuos professional riders lik erovbbie maddison an dtrigerer gumm who have set world records on the bike.

jeremey mcgrath has stated it wass the best open class bik eever built,
guys like mike larocco, lechien and david bailey love the bike.

as you might imagine , their input is also valued


this is your corner of the net..
hey do what you want.. you're the man!

you've chosen to have a decent part of its content geared towards
a certain detail on one specific product and a certain *other* website.
and actively started a lot of threads dogging SH out..

just dont hiccup when someone points it out.

now i'll hear some diatribe on how you're
the poor wounded humantarian"only" trying to make the world a better place ,by improving thier product and get SH more sales right?

thanks bro!!


but there is a big difference between constructive critisism meant to help,
(which i have seen here and thanks for it)
and a lot of the other *stuff* posted here "masquarading " as that.



This poster, in this thread asked about a SH gen3 bike
(yes several model years ago)

He is welcome to see the average resale value of a Service Honda gen 3 ,
or any other bike...
and make a good decision,for him, based on ALL the factors..


carry on..
its your house afterall.

i dint mean to spill beer on the carpet..

[pstoffers]

Its Back

[Exnav]

[ShanMan]

I was asked to build complete conversion bikes 4 years ago now...and all of this rhetoric is a big reason why I didn't.

When you look at it from a marketing and financial standpoint, SH and TT cannot really be compared. My perspective is that TT is improving the AF concept in a well thought out manner. he will likely never build the volume of bikes SH has and will continue to produce. Consequently, he will not have to play by the same set of rules that AJ has to at SH. Those rules mandate that AJ design and build a bike that meets a price point and maintains a profit margin or the whole concept would be shelved.

I am a NOBODY in the conversion world, but I can tell you this; short of those guys I have probably had more conversion hardware made than anyone else so I feel as though I know of what I speak. It is nearly impossible to make a profit on any of this stuff. I have never managed a profit. I have always given 100% of the money I collect to my machinists. They need to be paid for their time, and for me this has really always been more of a hobby...even when I didn't have a bike to ride (like now). I am probably just about done building these parts unless I can make a buck. My experience is that most guys want the cool stuff but are not willing to pay for it because they have no idea exactly what it takes. It's one thing to "know a guy who will machine up a set or two" for beers or no profit "for a friend". It's another to have to lay out the cash for material and machine time. I can only imagine the rolling total of costs and hours that goes into producing a limited production, boutique bike like a SH CR500AF. Tough stuff and really, only the well-healed need apply.

I think it is human nature to judge others...just as it is human nature to want to improve on an already good idea. Anybody who desires to ride a 500cc two stroke powered motorcycle can clearly be labeled as a hot-rodder. All hot-rodder's tinker and modify things to improve performance and largely to customize. So goes the cr500AF...SH took a great idea to market and to the masses. Hot-rodder's scrutinize it, complain about it, fix it, modify it, ride it, break it...repeat as necessary. This site IS the correct venue for talking about all of that though.

AJ, you're a cool dude, and even cooler still for coming on here to defend yourself...even when you clearly do not have to. I think you are a stand up guy. But like many other hot rodder's, I had it witin my capability to build my own conversion and not have to pay your retail price which is/was a big pill for a dirt bike in my estimation. You will always hear that your bikes are over-priced, especially these days because your once exclusive market has been blown wide open. I had more ability than cash...bottom line.

Mike at TT is also a very cool dude with the means and the resources to build a bike to his own tastes. Others love his vision too, and those with deep pockets will buy bikes from him. That is bitchin'!

Bob and Larry and Tracy are good guys that give the CR500 loving world a place to bench race, talk trash, learn about their bikes and how to build, maintain and fix them. Kudos guys.

Seems to me that minus the occasional back-handed compliments and out-and-out slam-fests (not to mention butchery of the English language), all is right with the world in terms of the evolution of the supposedly defunct CR500 and the hoons that love to flog them.

[AlisoBob]

bob..... i dint mean to spill beer on the carpet.

AJ, thats what this place is for. You are more than welcome to use it as you see fit, as others do. No worries... Speak Your Mind!!!

Regarding me and the whole A/F scene.... I'm a "C" rider on my bestdays... I could never use the Steel frame version to its fullest potential, "....so why upgrade to a A/F?" was my thinking for a long time.

I rode Shans, A/P's, and a few other Gen 1 and 3 A/F's.. I sit too much, and these arent the bikes to do it on. Then I rode a gen 4, and fell in love. Turns out , the bike is way easier to ride than my Steelie, and the new technology of the chassis and suspension makes up for my limited skill. I'm far faster on it, with better stamina. A real "WIN-WIN" situation.

As you recall, I was going to have you build me one, but didnt for a few different reasons.... ended up finding a suitable doner, and did one myself.

I have gotten really good feedback on it. Both for the build quality and engineering.





I know that if I had purchased a CR500AFX from S/H, I would have been disapointed in the build quality. If it came with suspect ignition, even more so. If the wiring harness had intermediate shorts, .. more so again. You get my point. I chose to build my own , after speaking with your customers who had to BUY the bike.

Not a Mcgrath, not a Lechien who had the bike given to them, or only rode it for a weekend at a Celebrety event.... I'm talking about the average Joe 6-Pack.

You state:

...but quite honestly dude,
from your past scoots, you own conversion, and your past outllooks on dirt bikes, you'd be the LAST person on earth i'd expect to focus on one apperence detail of any given model dirt bike".

You must have me confused with someone else. I've always been pretty picky on how my bike looks, and even more picky on anything altered or fabricated.

As far a being some kind of humanitarian... I have never promoted myself as one.

I have stood on the soapbox of free speach, free enterprize, truth in advertising, and standing behind your products though.

Beleive me when I say i try to keep the craptalk to a minimum.... like when "KKV Slayer" called your stuff shit.

I'm pretty much done discussing it , I think TTM is too. All the information is out there.

To try to end this on a good note, I think EVERYONE should thank AJ and Service Honda for keeping the CR500 alive and well since its farwell in 2001.

The KX500 is just a blip in history... The CR500 may well have too without AJ's support.

Also, Thanks for bringing the bikes out o Gorman that day... I know a few people who came out to ride them, our own John Ellett being one of them.
Every single one stated how cool the whole event was, and you especially.

You have heard my message , no need to keep pounding the same drum.

I hope you contuine to pop in AJ, and share things with the group.

I liked your write up on the history of the CR500AF.... Good Stuff!

[kkvslayer]

Maybe I should have worded my post differently,it wasn't meant to start shit,sorry guys,TT's still looks better,I should of just said that the first time

[Mad Dog]

[/quote]
To try to end this on a good note, I think EVERYONE should thank AJ and Service Honda for keeping the CR500 alive and well since its farwell in 2001.
The KX500 is just a blip in history... The CR500 may well have too without AJ's support.
[/quote]


Glad to see this post.
I am a lot tired of the AJ /SH bashing.
I've stayed out of this because I have a Service Honda and figured everyone would think I have a bias.
I like my Service Honda and AJ is right there for anything I need.

Without AJ's commitment and ferver for the mighty 500, we'd all still be on steelies or moved on to something else.

[britincali]

Competition and craptalk are good for any busineses product development, if SH was the only conversion on the market it would be the best hands down, but it aint. I really think some welding improvement is needed.



The two big benefits to a SH bike are the new motor (unreal when you figure they stopped production almost 8 years ago) and the resale value, people are more apt to part with green on a name brand conversion.


AJ I gotta commend you for coming into the "lions den" and posting up, it takes balls man

[britincali]

Without AJ's commitment and ferver for the mighty 500, we'd all still be on steelies or moved on to something else.

Everyone says that but I don't think its true, the CR500 was destined to live for a long time due to the longevity and versility of the motor, you can have whatever you want depending on the porting and the tranny is almost bombproof. Between the kart guys / hillclimbers / garage mechanics its a given these bikes and motors are gonna be around for a long time.

SH definatly helped the new bike market no doubt, Mr. Hondas employees guaranteed the legacy tho

[teamdns]

[/quote]



I find it odd that while several members ( including myself) have expressed concerns over the fit and alignment of the cradle pieces, along with some of the welding..... you have never addressed the situation.

I would have thought you would have shown new tooling or jigs that are correcting the issues....

Nope.


For once, right here and now, tell us what refinements we can expect to see in the 2009 edition of your bike.


[/quote]

AJ,

could you please answer this question

thank you for your time

[AJ]

Shane, youve always been a stand up guy in my book ,
and weve talked a few times over the years..
thanks for being the voice of reason..


Bob,
fair enough..
and this thread was pretty tame anyways lol
(i'm never nearly as serious as folks on the net seem to take me
at times )
I have seen a lot of other threads doggin me or SH out though,lol
and youve certainly started more than a few.
so you got to expect i may speak up occassionally, this particular thread may not have been the best one to do so..


Paul,
geez man..lol
as often as you comment ,
I have no idea what i ever did to you..personally, since weve never met.
seems you once bought a used SH 500af,
it worked well,but you wernt impressed with the build itself,
and built another for yourself?
i think you still have both,,who knows.

your comment
"its back"?
seems more to be the chip on your shoulder, or the axe you want to grind.

i'm more puzzled by it than anything else..
when i dont like certain details on some random model of bike..
or how someone types,, or whatever,
normally , i just -- get over it.no big deal.

To end this on a positive note as bob has tried to:

i'd certainly bury the hatchet with you if i even had one to bury.
i'm not sure where yours even came from..

hey your just "living the dream" right?

so am i , and have been for a long long time ..
(been riding racing since about 8 yo..and always loved it,,lucky as heck
to be involved this long,..,)
it all seems more reason to simply share a beer than to snipe at each other on a some website bro..?? your call..


just sayin'

[AlisoBob]

Hey your just "living the dream" right?......

So am I

[AlisoBob]

Bob, fair enough....

AJ, you would smoke me, riding a clapped out moped.....

I gotta respect that!

Yea, we get a little rough over here from time to time. Hell, look at the way we slam one another!

Thanks again for stopping by. Enjoy the weekend.

[teemtrubble]

Hey your just "living the dream" right?......

So am I

X3

Sorry but, Who the hell is Shane?

[AlisoBob]

Sorry but, Who the hell is Shane?

Shannon ( Shanman)

[kkvslayer]

Without AJ's commitment and ferver for the mighty 500, we'd all still be on steelies or moved on to something else.

Everyone says that but I don't think its true, the CR500 was destined to live for a long time due to the longevity and versility of the motor, you can have whatever you want depending on the porting and the tranny is almost bombproof. Between the kart guys / hillclimbers / garage mechanics its a given these bikes and motors are gonna be around for a long time.

SH definatly helped the new bike market no doubt, Mr. Hondas employees guaranteed the legacy tho

Apparently the CR500 Aluminum Frame market isn't getting any smaller but of course without SH the 500 would be gone Do you honestly think someone else wouldn't of thought of putting a CR500 engine in one of those frames?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Honda-CR-CR500-cr-50 ... dZViewItem

[teemtrubble]

Mickey Kessler...

Bob I know

[ShanMan]

Mickey Kessler...

Bob I know

Mickey Kessler....now THAT is old school right there dawgs!

[teemtrubble]

Mickey Kessler...

Bob I know

Mickey Kessler....now THAT is old school right there dawgs!

Yep sure is Shane

[pstoffers]

Aj,

"Its back" was not towards you. Bob pulled the original receipt because it had my friends SS # on it. So I blacked it out and reposted it. Then replied it's back. Sorry that you took that towards you.

New or used what does that matter? I paint cars for a living I have painted new cars and old cars. If I ever felt that a new car or old car I have ever painted was good enough I would quit.

(Chip on my shoulder) Maybe.... When I see SHIT I call it.

Yes I have two of them one you made (and I love to ride it) one I made (and I love to race it)

With love
LIVIN THE DREAM!!!
Paul Stoffers #216

[iggys-amsoil]

Slave Tracking Number on a sale reciept?

Thats very bad MoJo AJ very bad.

[chachi243]

Hey all,
I'm looking for information on the SH AJ conversions for the gen 3 wishbone. Is it billet like their newer bikes and the TT bikes? Pics would be great.

I'm trying to come up with a list of pros and cons between the SH and TT conversions.

thanks.

Greg you shit starter! gosh i thought i was at the regular 500 site again for a minute or 20. This is a fuckin' PERFECT example of why i found that other site so lame, puhhleeeeeze dont make me bring the peoples' elbow out of retirement. AJ, in case you forgot, youre mostly just an asshole for sharing information while trying to make a living doing something you love! This is america, how dare you stick up for yourself! Plus you're like what, a gazillion trillionaire by now? pffft*just kidding bud* I dont get some people, well most people for that matter. But i will be pissed if this site swings THAT other site's way you bastards! NOBODY cares how much money you have or dont have or can possibly save, if you dont like it then don't buy it but if you can't actually personally weld, than shut the fuck up about the welds. If it was easy or inexpensive, no one would ask "where do i take this to be welded when im done with the sawzall?" If you can actually weld and you just want to be a dick, EAT one while you're at it. I hated that other site MOSTLY for when everytime i posted a build pic some deuchenozzle (engineer) would reply how i should have done something better or whatever.... Most people who have the money and prefer to walk in and buy or finance versus hand-building their own (and all the time and hustling that goes along with that) could give a shit and actually don't really know exactly what they are looking at/for anyways, good or fucked. I know if i built everything like it was my very own i'd be OUT OF BUSINESS. I used to work for a guy who "knew" how to build everything and never actually built jack shit with his own hands, oh he could tell me how i was supposed to be doing it, but he couldn't show me how to do anything except talk shit.....i can't stand pussies like that. If there was a frame or radiators with welds like those that a newbie/anyone other than SH built, you guys would be like "right on man, another AFC in the books! Nice job bro! Keep up the good work!" its fuckin' LAME and it makes all us hoons look bad. Kooks! I'm going to the garage now.