Building a CR500Af suggestions please.

[TJC510]

im 6'2" and i love the crf250 chassis. i rotated the handle bar mounts around so the offset is forward and that is all ill need to do. ergos are perfect. i love the handling of the chassis, nothing i have ridee how i do this year, im hoping to advance to the A class.n corners like it. ill take some headshake over highspeed stability, put a damper on it for stability. i am a fast B enduro rider with the steel frame, we'll see how i do this year. im hoping to advance to the A class

SOF, from what i have read, you are arguing points that other people have told you. i have been told many contradicting things from many different people.

[Slow old Fart]

[quote

:

The problem with the gen 4 is it has steering issues in some situations. quote]

Um, yeah, its that exact steering issue that makes them not as good, duh! And I pointed that out many reponses ago.

For the record I'm 6'3, and prefer the Gen.3 hands down. I can see how you would prefer the CRF, it is a little more spread out. I have no problems with the ergo's on the CRF's. I have a problem with the feel (pushing) in turns.

And your freinds RMZ must not have been set-up very well. Sag set correctly, proper spring rate etc. Anyway, also a persons riding level will make a big difference as well. I'm a Intermediate level MX'er (in AZ. thats one below Pro), and I'll take some headshake etc, over high speed stability anyday.

To each there own. I'm done debating.

Which CRF 450 are you talking about? you know there are 2 versions of it. The gen 3 once you put offset triples on it the bike tracks great but it is slow steering.

The RMZ was set up correctly, it was the one that looked like the gen 3 450. the bikes look almost identical. The guy bought it because it was supposed to steer better than his gen 3 2004 CRF 450. He said it did but then when he threw a leg over a gen 4 450 he said both the RMZ and the CRF 1st version were trucks in comparison when throwing them around in corners not how well they stick in turns. He rides moto X.

You need to clarify which bikes you are talking about, did they have triples,did they have CR 500 motors in them, did you own them and have them set up for you? I sincerly dought it!

The first thing I did when I tried my CRF 450 gen 4 conversion and did not like the way it steered I went on thumper talk and hunted around and PM'd people who had a 05 gen 4 for answers.

The replies from some were yes the bike is more agile and it does have a front end that will push and wonder. Some of these same people had 04 CRF 450's with triples and practically all felt that that bike with triples has a more stable and predictable front end even over a gen 3 CR250. It sticks like glue but is slower reacting and does nor lean into a turn as easy.

Please clarify your staments on what bikes. Your posting is vague and in some ways just plain wrong!

and buy the way a gen 3 250 CR is roomier and more comfy in some way's than a GEN 4 450.

Please clarify.

[Slow old Fart]

im 6'2" and i love the crf250 chassis. i rotated the handle bar mounts around so the offset is forward and that is all ill need to do. ergos are perfect. i love the handling of the chassis, nothing i have ridee how i do this year, im hoping to advance to the A class.n corners like it. ill take some headshake over highspeed stability, put a damper on it for stability. i am a fast B enduro rider with the steel frame, we'll see how i do this year. im hoping to advance to the A class

SOF, from what i have read, you are arguing points that other people have told you. i have been told many contradicting things from many different people.

I have owned all three bikes and own 2 of them now. GEN 3 450 CR 500 gen 3 CR 250 500 and GEN 4 CR 450 500. I am not saying i know alot because i do not ride enough as of lately but owning them is better than just spouting off when you may have taken a lap or 2 on one or just looked at one.Which is what some people like to do.

[mxracr121]

[quote

:

The problem with the gen 4 is it has steering issues in some situations. quote]

Um, yeah, its that exact steering issue that makes them not as good, duh! And I pointed that out many reponses ago.

For the record I'm 6'3, and prefer the Gen.3 hands down. I can see how you would prefer the CRF, it is a little more spread out. I have no problems with the ergo's on the CRF's. I have a problem with the feel (pushing) in turns.

And your freinds RMZ must not have been set-up very well. Sag set correctly, proper spring rate etc. Anyway, also a persons riding level will make a big difference as well. I'm a Intermediate level MX'er (in AZ. thats one below Pro), and I'll take some headshake etc, over high speed stability anyday.

To each there own. I'm done debating.

Which CRF 450 are you talking about? you know there are 2 versions of it. The gen 3 once you put offset triples on it the bike tracks great but it is slow steering.

The RMZ was set up correctly, it was the one that looked like the gen 3 450. the bikes look almost identical. The guy bought it because it was supposed to steer better than his gen 3 2004 CRF 450. He said it did but then when he threw a leg over a gen 4 450 he said both the RMZ and the CRF 1st version were trucks in comparison when throwing them around in corners not how well they stick in turns. He rides moto X.

You need to clarify which bikes you are talking about, did they have triples,did they have CR 500 motors in them, did you own them and have them set up for you? I sincerly dought it!

The first thing I did when I tried my CRF 450 gen 4 conversion and did not like the way it steered I went on thumper talk and hunted around and PM'd people who had a 05 gen 4 for answers.

The replies from some were yes the bike is more agile and it does have a front end that will push and wonder. Some of these same people had 04 CRF 450's with triples and practically all felt that that bike with triples has a more stable and predictable front end even over a gen 3 CR250. It sticks like glue but is slower reacting and does nor lean into a turn as easy.

Please clarify your staments on what bikes. Your posting is vague and in some ways just plain wrong!

and buy the way a gen 3 250 CR is roomier and more comfy in some way's than a GEN 4 450.

Please clarify.

You must be drinking or something, becuase you point out all the flaws with the CRF chassis's (Gen.3 and 4), yet you still say its superior. Please tell me how a chassis that is slower reacting and does not lean into turns as easy, has a front end push( your own words), is a more agile (maybe you need to look up the definition of "agile") chassis? You even said you went online to find info on your Gen4 bike becuase you didn't like the way it steered.

Contradiction after contradiction.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agile

[Slow old Fart]

The problem with the gen 4 is it has steering issues in some situations. quote]

Um, yeah, its that exact steering issue that makes them not as good, duh! And I pointed that out many reponses ago.

For the record I'm 6'3, and prefer the Gen.3 hands down. I can see how you would prefer the CRF, it is a little more spread out. I have no problems with the ergo's on the CRF's. I have a problem with the feel (pushing) in turns.

And your freinds RMZ must not have been set-up very well. Sag set correctly, proper spring rate etc. Anyway, also a persons riding level will make a big difference as well. I'm a Intermediate level MX'er (in AZ. thats one below Pro), and I'll take some headshake etc, over high speed stability anyday.

To each there own. I'm done debating.

Which CRF 450 are you talking about? you know there are 2 versions of it. The gen 3 once you put offset triples on it the bike tracks great but it is slow steering.

The RMZ was set up correctly, it was the one that looked like the gen 3 450. the bikes look almost identical. The guy bought it because it was supposed to steer better than his gen 3 2004 CRF 450. He said it did but then when he threw a leg over a gen 4 450 he said both the RMZ and the CRF 1st version were trucks in comparison when throwing them around in corners not how well they stick in turns. He rides moto X.

You need to clarify which bikes you are talking about, did they have triples,did they have CR 500 motors in them, did you own them and have them set up for you? I sincerly dought it!

The first thing I did when I tried my CRF 450 gen 4 conversion and did not like the way it steered I went on thumper talk and hunted around and PM'd people who had a 05 gen 4 for answers.

The replies from some were yes the bike is more agile and it does have a front end that will push and wonder. Some of these same people had 04 CRF 450's with triples and practically all felt that that bike with triples has a more stable and predictable front end even over a gen 3 CR250. It sticks like glue but is slower reacting and does nor lean into a turn as easy.

Please clarify your staments on what bikes. Your posting is vague and in some ways just plain wrong!

and buy the way a gen 3 250 CR is roomier and more comfy in some way's than a GEN 4 450.

Please clarify.

You must be drinking or something, becuase you point out all the flaws with the CRF chassis's (Gen.3 and 4), yet you still say its superior. Please tell me how a chassis that is slower reacting and does not lean into turns as easy, has a front end push( your own words), is a more agile (maybe you need to look up the definition of "agile") chassis? You even said you went online to find info on your Gen4 bike becuase you didn't like the way it steered.

Contradiction after contradiction.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agile

Your talking out your butt go re read the post's. and I am not trying to offend. Hopefully MPS and teem trubble will test them all and clear it up a little.

Your another who just like most and it is only human nature are going to claim because you own a Gen 3 250 it is best plain and simple. even though you have very little if any experience with the other modded CR 500 AF's!

It was the same thing with SH, MPS and Teem Trubble. So it is just normal because you built that baby it is the best baby. SH has opted out of chasing a dead horse, why would they they no longer make a GEN 3 if I am not mistaken so all new bikes will have to be GEN 4 and if a gen 3 250 is trully batter than a GEN 4 in all regards then great you have the best one but by your post's I believe you are another who has done no testing on all of them so it is just your opinion with little known facts to back it up.

When you are clearly wrong I am going to point it out.

I do not care I am just trying to learn about these things and I believe MPS and Teem trubble will settle the differences once they build and test them all so we will know what is what without talking out our butts. I have owned these and watched them get built and must admit I have little seat time on a gen 3 Cr 250 and a gen 4 CRF 450 I rode them enough to realize how they are different.

The coversion I rode the most was the gen 3 450 CR 500 which I did not like in alot of way's but once I put 20mm clamps on it it was good but slower steering but went where you pointed. The gen 4 is much faster reacting but has a hard time holding a line. The gen 3 250 is in between the 2 it goes where you point it but is not as stable and march straight in the direction you want to go with out being deflected as a GEN 3 450 once it is setup correctly.

The gen 4 chassis is as or more agile than a gen 3 CR 250 but has problems in certain tracks or conditions getting the front end to hook and not wonder that is why Honda put a dampner on it in 08.

I am trying to find a fix for a Gen 4 so when I ride it next time I will not throw it in the garage and be pissed off like I was after I spent 20 man hours putting it together and it did not stick in sugar sand.

All I need to build a GEN 3 250 is a frame, sub frame, tank, airbox and seat so I really do not care I will just build one if my Gen 4 does not come around, maybe one year.

you should read the post's alittle closer because the last one leads me to believe you are the one drinking.

[chachi243]

i currently ride an 02 CRF450 (first year of the 450) and an 05 CR250R........ both 500 conversions built by me. HANDS DOWN my 250 chassis is better EVERYWHERE than my 450, BUT my 450 is the first year model(least refined) and didnt push as bad when installed 20 mm clamps. I have ridden an 04 450 and it felt similar. I built and sold an 02 CR250R conversion and it felt nearly identical to my 05 but unless you are a really tall guy, the 2 stroke platforms feel more like nimble standard 2 strokes and the thumpers, regardless of motor still feel like thumpers handling wise to me. I do not know what else to say other than these are just my own personal opinions and i dont give a rats ass what you say or want to argue about, i prefer my 2 stroke platform to any other thumper conversion. I am 5'7" and 165lbs intermediatte rider. It's 420. Later.

[chachi243]

uh yeah

[chachi243]

i need to rack up some more posts.

[Slow old Fart]

i currently ride an 02 CRF450 (first year of the 450) and an 05 CR250R........ both 500 conversions built by me. HANDS DOWN my 250 chassis is better EVERYWHERE than my 450, BUT my 450 is the first year model(least refined) and didnt push as bad when installed 20 mm clamps. I have ridden an 04 450 and it felt similar. I built and sold an 02 CR250R conversion and it felt nearly identical to my 05 but unless you are a really tall guy, the 2 stroke platforms feel more like nimble standard 2 strokes and the thumpers, regardless of motor still feel like thumpers handling wise to me. I do not know what else to say other than these are just my own personal opinions and i dont give a rats ass what you say or want to argue about, i prefer my 2 stroke platform to any other thumper conversion. I am 5'7" and 165lbs intermediatte rider. It's 420. Later.

but have you spent time on a GEN 4 CRf 450r with a CR 500 motor or a CRF 250R with a 500 motor??????????

[chachi243]

they handled exactly like they do with 4 stroke motors (maybe the weight and center of gravity changes but in both cases it is minor and not a deciding factor) .....just an obvious difference in power delivery and power but if you are most comfortable on a CR ..........then any CRF with any motor and triple clamps or not, STILL FEELS LIKE A FRICKIN CRF.... it is not an answerable question of which bike is better than the other BUT WHICH BIKE YOU ARE MOST COMFORTABLE WITH..... the 500 motor just means you have to shift more and you can wheelie whenever you want, it really doesnt have shit to do with handling differences between stock 2 and 4 stroke models. its hardly an arguement with a right or wrong answer when IT REALLY COMES TO PERSONAL PREFERENCE....no way...you're wrong....no...you're wrong......no you're retarded whatever blah blah If you like CRF's better than CR's, then YOU need to decide between a 250F and a 450F but if you are a CR guy, you won't like either as much as your CR. If you are a CR guy and you like your gen one or two more than an 02 and later then you arent riding to the level where you would even notice or CARE.... Its amazing what proper valving and triple clamps with more offset will do for ANY YEAR/ALL MAKES of BIKES DUH!

Never got to and always wanted to try an 05 or later CR125 conversion. Guess i'll have to keep my eyes open for a good deal.

[Slow old Fart]

they handled exactly like they do with 4 stroke motors (maybe the weight and center of gravity changes but in both cases it is minor and not a deciding factor) .....just an obvious difference in power delivery and power but if you are most comfortable on a CR ..........then any CRF with any motor and triple clamps or not, STILL FEELS LIKE A FRICKIN CRF.... it is not an answerable question of which bike is better than the other BUT WHICH BIKE YOU ARE MOST COMFORTABLE WITH..... the 500 motor just means you have to shift more and you can wheelie whenever you want, it really doesnt have shit to do with handling differences between stock 2 and 4 stroke models. its hardly an arguement with a right or wrong answer when IT REALLY COMES TO PERSONAL PREFERENCE....no way...you're wrong....no...you're wrong......no you're retarded whatever blah blah If you like CRF's better than CR's, then YOU need to decide between a 250F and a 450F but if you are a CR guy, you won't like either as much as your CR. If you are a CR guy and you like your gen one or two more than an 02 and later then you arent riding to the level where you would even notice or CARE.... Its amazing what proper valving and triple clamps with more offset will do for ANY YEAR/ALL MAKES of BIKES DUH!

Never got to and always wanted to try an 05 or later CR125 conversion. Guess i'll have to keep my eyes open for a good deal.

Honda did not update the Cr 250 because they planned on scraping i. It has nothing to do with 4 stroke chasses feel or 2 stroke, if Honda were to still be building a CR 250 and they were promoting it guess what it would have gotten the same treatment as the gen 3 450 and you would be buying a CR 250 in a gen 4 chasses.

When Honda redesigned the CRf 450 and came out with a CRf250r they were trying to make a chasses that flexed more at the top that is why it uses the narrow spars. It has nothing to do with 4 stroke or 2 stoke nothing at all.

Just look at the 1st gen 250 Cr alumatube and I rest my case.

The guy who was posting earlier is way off base you are not in my opinion. trust me off base!

I just posted a thread in the Moretorque thread , I do not know who this guy is but it sounds like he is one of the greatest human beings to ever live.

You may find the post about how alike these bikes are a eye opener!

[Slow old Fart]

they handled exactly like they do with 4 stroke motors (maybe the weight and center of gravity changes but in both cases it is minor and not a deciding factor) .....just an obvious difference in power delivery and power but if you are most comfortable on a CR ..........then any CRF with any motor and triple clamps or not, STILL FEELS LIKE A FRICKIN CRF.... it is not an answerable question of which bike is better than the other BUT WHICH BIKE YOU ARE MOST COMFORTABLE WITH..... the 500 motor just means you have to shift more and you can wheelie whenever you want, it really doesnt have shit to do with handling differences between stock 2 and 4 stroke models. its hardly an arguement with a right or wrong answer when IT REALLY COMES TO PERSONAL PREFERENCE....no way...you're wrong....no...you're wrong......no you're retarded whatever blah blah If you like CRF's better than CR's, then YOU need to decide between a 250F and a 450F but if you are a CR guy, you won't like either as much as your CR. If you are a CR guy and you like your gen one or two more than an 02 and later then you arent riding to the level where you would even notice or CARE.... Its amazing what proper valving and triple clamps with more offset will do for ANY YEAR/ALL MAKES of BIKES DUH!

Never got to and always wanted to try an 05 or later CR125 conversion. Guess i'll have to keep my eyes open for a good deal.

Honda did not update the Cr 250 because they planned on scraping i. It has nothing to do with 4 stroke chasses feel or 2 stroke, if Honda were to still be building a CR 250 and they were promoting it guess what it would have gotten the same treatment as the gen 3 450 and you would be buying a CR 250 in a gen 4 chasses.

When Honda redesigned the CRf 450 and came out with a CRf250r they were trying to make a chasses that flexed more at the top that is why it uses the narrow spars. It has nothing to do with 4 stroke or 2 stoke nothing at all.

Just look at the 1st gen 250 Cr alumatube and I rest my case.

The guy who was posting earlier is way off base you are not in my opinion. trust me off base!

I just posted a thread in the Moretorque thread , I do not know who this guy is but it sounds like he is one of the greatest human beings to ever live.

You may find the post about how alike these bikes are a eye opener!

[mxracr121]

they handled exactly like they do with 4 stroke motors (maybe the weight and center of gravity changes but in both cases it is minor and not a deciding factor) .....just an obvious difference in power delivery and power but if you are most comfortable on a CR ..........then any CRF with any motor and triple clamps or not, STILL FEELS LIKE A FRICKIN CRF.... it is not an answerable question of which bike is better than the other BUT WHICH BIKE YOU ARE MOST COMFORTABLE WITH..... the 500 motor just means you have to shift more and you can wheelie whenever you want, it really doesnt have shit to do with handling differences between stock 2 and 4 stroke models. its hardly an arguement with a right or wrong answer when IT REALLY COMES TO PERSONAL PREFERENCE....no way...you're wrong....no...you're wrong......no you're retarded whatever blah blah If you like CRF's better than CR's, then YOU need to decide between a 250F and a 450F but if you are a CR guy, you won't like either as much as your CR. If you are a CR guy and you like your gen one or two more than an 02 and later then you arent riding to the level where you would even notice or CARE.... Its amazing what proper valving and triple clamps with more offset will do for ANY YEAR/ALL MAKES of BIKES DUH!

Never got to and always wanted to try an 05 or later CR125 conversion. Guess i'll have to keep my eyes open for a good deal.

Honda did not update the Cr 250 because they planned on scraping i. It has nothing to do with 4 stroke chasses feel or 2 stroke, if Honda were to still be building a CR 250 and they were promoting it guess what it would have gotten the same treatment as the gen 3 450 and you would be buying a CR 250 in a gen 4 chasses.

When Honda redesigned the CRf 450 and came out with a CRf250r they were trying to make a chasses that flexed more at the top that is why it uses the narrow spars. It has nothing to do with 4 stroke or 2 stoke nothing at all.

Just look at the 1st gen 250 Cr alumatube and I rest my case.

The guy who was posting earlier is way off base you are not in my opinion. trust me off base!

I just posted a thread in the Moretorque thread , I do not know who this guy is but it sounds like he is one of the greatest human beings to ever live.

You may find the post about how alike these bikes are a eye opener!

Slow Old Fart- No offense taken, don't worry, all in good fun!
Like Chachi wrote, not everybody likes the same thing. Like I posted earlier, I'll take turning prowness over stability anyday. I'm a track guy, so the high speed desert riding doesn't intrest me so much, so stability doesn't benefit me.

BTW, How can I be way off base? I said the CRF chassis, both Gen.3 & 4 pushes in turns when compared to the CR chassis. Guess what? So did you. So, I'm still waiting to hear the explanation of how this pushing in the turns makes it more "agile". Does the CRF chassis (any gen.) have more stability? Yes, it is more stable. Does it turn as well? No. It pushes.

[Slow old Fart]

they handled exactly like they do with 4 stroke motors (maybe the weight and center of gravity changes but in both cases it is minor and not a deciding factor) .....just an obvious difference in power delivery and power but if you are most comfortable on a CR ..........then any CRF with any motor and triple clamps or not, STILL FEELS LIKE A FRICKIN CRF.... it is not an answerable question of which bike is better than the other BUT WHICH BIKE YOU ARE MOST COMFORTABLE WITH..... the 500 motor just means you have to shift more and you can wheelie whenever you want, it really doesnt have shit to do with handling differences between stock 2 and 4 stroke models. its hardly an arguement with a right or wrong answer when IT REALLY COMES TO PERSONAL PREFERENCE....no way...you're wrong....no...you're wrong......no you're retarded whatever blah blah If you like CRF's better than CR's, then YOU need to decide between a 250F and a 450F but if you are a CR guy, you won't like either as much as your CR. If you are a CR guy and you like your gen one or two more than an 02 and later then you arent riding to the level where you would even notice or CARE.... Its amazing what proper valving and triple clamps with more offset will do for ANY YEAR/ALL MAKES of BIKES DUH!

Never got to and always wanted to try an 05 or later CR125 conversion. Guess i'll have to keep my eyes open for a good deal.

Honda did not update the Cr 250 because they planned on scraping i. It has nothing to do with 4 stroke chasses feel or 2 stroke, if Honda were to still be building a CR 250 and they were promoting it guess what it would have gotten the same treatment as the gen 3 450 and you would be buying a CR 250 in a gen 4 chasses.

When Honda redesigned the CRf 450 and came out with a CRf250r they were trying to make a chasses that flexed more at the top that is why it uses the narrow spars. It has nothing to do with 4 stroke or 2 stoke nothing at all.

Just look at the 1st gen 250 Cr alumatube and I rest my case.

The guy who was posting earlier is way off base you are not in my opinion. trust me off base!

I just posted a thread in the Moretorque thread , I do not know who this guy is but it sounds like he is one of the greatest human beings to ever live.

You may find the post about how alike these bikes are a eye opener!

Slow Old Fart- No offense taken, don't worry, all in good fun!
Like Chachi wrote, not everybody likes the same thing. Like I posted earlier, I'll take turning prowness over stability anyday. I'm a track guy, so the high speed desert riding doesn't intrest me so much, so stability doesn't benefit me.

BTW, How can I be way off base? I said the CRF chassis, both Gen.3 & 4 pushes in turns when compared to the CR chassis. Guess what? So did you. So, I'm still waiting to hear the explanation of how this pushing in the turns makes it more "agile". Does the CRF chassis (any gen.) have more stability? Yes, it is more stable. Does it turn as well? No. It pushes.

No i said the CRF with a CR 450 motor had a push and in paticular a 02 buy 04 they had the bike working pretty good up front but it was not as agile as a 250 at all but did track like on rails with a tuning but was a slower chasses and leant itself to tracks that are good with slow reactiing chasses.

My 03 with triples has no push and the front end tracks a groove even better than a 250 CR in my opinion but I have not spent enough time on one to totally confirm this.

I did notice imediately the ass end had a feel to it of not wanting to go as straight and the front could be deflected easier off course but this is from the slightly shorter wheel base. I have to admit it took honda 5 years to finally get the 250 CR tub correct and the gen 1 450 is really not as good of a bike because Honda had 5 years to get the 250 right.

I do not under stand why Honda has not fixed the steering problem with the gen 4, they have had 4 years to do it and have left the frame alone.

I have no problem building a Gen3 but I want to check all avenues before hand.

The real problem I had with a GEN 1 450 was the frame kicks the shit out of me,that thing is a beast just like the old CR 250 and the only way i could ride it for long periods of time was with 98 RM forks to put a flex point on it.

The CR 250 is a much less beefy frame and should be more forgiving but then again the gen 4 450 is another level of softening from that by the way it looks but you are right if they do not steer right they are hard to ride.

Actually I learn alot from this so thanks.

[TJC510]

I do not under stand why Honda has not fixed the steering problem with the gen 4, they have had 4 years to do it and have left the frame alone.

for 08, honda did "fix" it 20mm offset clamps instead of 22mm. thats why it has the stabilizer. my crf250 does not push one bit, must be a 450 thing. if you are getting the 250f to push, then you are not setting the forks in the clamps right.