Service Hondas "Improved Ignition" vs OEM

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Caseys500
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Post by Caseys500 »

AlisoBob wrote:
Caseys500 wrote:I think there is a pretty big niche for someone to produce a good one. I would easily pay $200 for a system that was between 75W and 100W.
Yup, I'm looking into it...
Thanks bob, you're my hero....i'll get off my knees now :lol:

Jay might sell me one of his SH units. I just need lighting.
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lewisclan
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Post by lewisclan »

I’ve got a replacement unit coming from S/H so the unit Ill be pulling off my bike starts fine when cold but wont start up after it’s warmed up. several members here have had a go at it after warm up and it would take about 10 min of kicking and some times up to 3-4 different guys kicking it until tired then we would switch to a fresh guy and take several min before it would light off.

I have another bike that has a working S/H unit on it and it works just fine. I kind of like it. That’s when I figured I had a screwed up unit from the manufacture, my old unit also came with 2 wires that where switched in a connector block.

So you think you can use the stator? You do know it takes a complete different flywheel & backing plate right

I am sure I will only have a replacement stator/pick up & maybe a cdi unit not sure yet as I have not recieved it yet .
Image"the game of life of is not so much in holding a good hand as playing a poor hand well"
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M.F.D.B.
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Post by M.F.D.B. »

lewisclan wrote:several members here have had a go at it after warm up and it would take about 10 min of kicking and some times up to 3-4 different guys kicking it until tired then we would switch to a fresh guy and take several min before it would light off.
Im on that list. :wink:

Did you ever try the rabbit kick method??

Did I ever ride the bike with the working SH unit??
Faster then Speedy Gonzalez, slower then the Road Runner!!! MEEP MEEP

2002 CR80
1999 Cr500
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Caseys500
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Post by Caseys500 »

lewisclan wrote:That’s when I figured I had a screwed up unit from the manufacture, my old unit also came with 2 wires that where switched in a connector block.

So you think you can use the stator? You do know it takes a complete different flywheel & backing plate right

I am sure I will only have a replacement stator/pick up & maybe a cdi unit not sure yet as I have not recieved it yet .
Let me know...I was going to have my boss look at it...he is an electronics guru, But I forgot about the backing plate and flywheel...Hmm, let me know what you get, I doubt they will let me order just those parts huh. It's worth a try.

Did you find out that the one they are replacing (the one you might sell me) has the wires crossed too? Were you able to switch them and get it working correctly? Wierd that it would work fine when cold and be a pain when warmed up. My bike was doing that too but it was a carb issue that I thought was an electronics issue. I changed a lot of things before I finally changed my carb. Mine was wishy washy though...sometimes easy to start at the beginning and hard when warmed up, sometimes hard to start in the beginning and easy once warmed up. Different problem from what you were having which def. sounds like electronics.
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M.F.D.B.
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Post by M.F.D.B. »

Caseys500 wrote:Did you find out that the one they are replacing (the one you might sell me) has the wires crossed too?
If they are replacing those parts,how are you gonna buy them?? :wink:
Faster then Speedy Gonzalez, slower then the Road Runner!!! MEEP MEEP

2002 CR80
1999 Cr500
2003 CR250R
2005 CRF250R
2006 YZ450F
2005 CBR1000RR
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Caseys500
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Post by Caseys500 »

M.F.D.B. wrote:
Caseys500 wrote:Did you find out that the one they are replacing (the one you might sell me) has the wires crossed too?
If they are replacing those parts,how are you gonna buy them?? :wink:
I think that's the one he was talking about. :oops:
90cr500guy
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Post by 90cr500guy »

I love my SH Igntion
I have no starting issues and I dont do the stupid rabbit kick.
You guys sure spend a lot of time surfing that other site.
Cant come up with anything on your own?
Brit's queer
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AlisoBob
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Post by AlisoBob »

If you dont think that the system as a whole has issues, you got your head up your ass.

As far as the other site... its pure comedy...
Image

They think that the longer rail on the flywheel somehow is responsible for the "multisparking" capacity of the unit, or is somehow changing the timing of the unit...

The truth?

Both rails stop at exactly the same spot. ( The far, left edge in these photos) Therefore both flywheels collapse the magnetic field and induce a voltage in the pulse generator at the exact same instant...

nothing more......nothing less.

Its very clear that no one on that site has any idea on how the CR500 ignition system works... OEM or other wise.

Be sure you tell them where you read it first...

:nyah:
90cr500guy
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Post by 90cr500guy »

Bob
I dont know the specifics as to how it works, but I do have one and I have no issues what so ever.
I dont use the rabbit kick method
I kick from the top of the down stroke and the bike start hot or cold.
The power is smother and revs alittle higher
I dont know why so many are having issues
Is it worth the $? depends, if you have the money to spend I would buy it but only after you are done with every thing else.

Thanks for calling me an ass. My system works
If it makes you feel better, find a pic of an ass and put my name on it :roll:
Brit's queer
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Caseys500
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Post by Caseys500 »

I still dont see why a 250 ignition cant be used...there is an 80W system for the 89-92 and 93-96 CR250 that includes a stator and plate. Then all you might need is the CDI, coil and flywheel off of a 250 from those years. This is something I might look into trying.
Of course it would need to be massaged in... :wink:
Say hallo to my little friend, Mr. CR 500.
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AlisoBob
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Post by AlisoBob »

90cr500guy wrote:Bob
I dont know the specifics as to how it works, but I do have one and I have no issues what so ever.
And that IS the issue...

Yours works
Redridermv's works
Many others work too.

Jays works, until it gets hot

Redrockets and many others dont work.

S/H needs to get a handle on whats really going on.
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AlisoBob
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Post by AlisoBob »

Caseys500 wrote: This is something I might look into trying.
Of course it would need to be massaged in... :wink:
We are on the same page Casey.. stay tuned...
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Post by Ported&Polished »

The cr250 ignition does work. Freemer has a cr250 unit, it's rewound for 200 watts by Ricky Stator and a custom backing plate made of billet. The flywheel is cr250 as well, and because it's bigger, the side case is modified to accept it, kinda like the Eline cover. I mentioned this long ago on the other site and got no responce other than a couple people asking for pics. Image
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AlisoBob
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Post by AlisoBob »

Freemer ....post some info and a photo with the cover off please!

I'll send you some Bratz stuff so you can have "Cat Fights" if you do!

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dannygraves
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Post by dannygraves »

I said this like 2 pages ago. the cr250 ignition will bolt on! it will give a lot more overrev, and the newer digital ones are supposed to reduce wheel spin.
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M.F.D.B.
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Post by M.F.D.B. »

AlisoBob wrote:Freemer ....post some info and a photo with the cover off please!

I'll send you some Bratz stuff so you can have "Cat Fights" if you do!

Image
:lmao: :rotfl: :lmao: :rotfl: :lmao: :rotfl: :lmao: :rotfl: :lmao: :rotfl:
:devious:
Faster then Speedy Gonzalez, slower then the Road Runner!!! MEEP MEEP

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dannygraves
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Post by dannygraves »

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Gen-4 trail bike --SOLD--
Gen-3 badass trail/mx bike --SOLD--
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Caseys500
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Post by Caseys500 »

Here is the link to the moose pdf of ignitions...
http://www.mooseracing.com/pdf/ignition.pdf

The newer CR250s put out 60W which is better; but the older ones put out 80W.

there is a new one on ebay for a 99-01 that is for only $99 buy it now. I would go that route but I think I would rather have the 80W.

How will the CR250 Flywheel affect the 500 though?

I wonder if a "sliver" spacer could be made to still use the OEM ignition cover...is the 250 ignition cover wider at all? They do cross over dont they?
Say hallo to my little friend, Mr. CR 500.
ou812
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Post by ou812 »

How will the CR250 Flywheel affect the 500 though?
simple, take a 250 and a 500 one and have them both spun to see what the balance is at, any one how balances small cranks can do it. If they are differant have the 250 one changed to balance like the 500 one.

As for the later 250 digital units they also have a electric sensor circuit built into then for carb enrichment, left unused It may or may no effect how the unit overall works, that would be a testing issue.

I've run the pre digital 250 CDI box with good results using the 500 stator assembly and coil.

What gets me is unless you are a seriuos MX racer why do you want to tame it down like a 4 stroke? Not sure if most of you know this but most of the HIT is in the pipe design, all 89 and up regardless of make, OEM or afthermarket, have a mild no hard hit kind of power. If you ride a stock well jetted 86 or 87 and the put it into a 90's frame, rejet again to match the new pipe, you will be amazed at how the hit flattens out into more of a smooth pull.

That's why I don't get it, the 500 is for shits and grin factor! it's already tame with a 90's steely or AF, makes no sense to tame it more. you serious MX guy's need a 450, If you don't beleive me take your 500 out and run with 450's in Supermoto trim on a closed course.
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dannygraves
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Post by dannygraves »

for me, I'm running a 250cdi for more overrev in the drags. I'm also having my pipe reshaped to provide more overrev. I have no desire to mellow out the hit. hell, I have a built '86 motor, the hit it what riding a cr500 is all about! :D
'09 kx450f 4-Poke
Gen-4 trail bike --SOLD--
Gen-3 badass trail/mx bike --SOLD--
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'05 klx110 --SOLD--
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AlisoBob
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Post by AlisoBob »

Well, I have not 1, but 2 complete S/H digital ignitions in my possesion.

Tonight, I'm going home to wire them up, and see what happens...

I never really thought about it before, but look at the photo below...

The S/H flywheel has a big flywheel weight rivited on to it.

EVERY flywheel weight advertisment states " smoother power delivery, better traction, less stallin.... "

:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

Sounds identical to the S/H advertisments..

Is the flywheel weight the source of the percieved improvment?

I'll find out tonight!

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MICK
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Post by MICK »

S/H does mention their flywheel weighs 3 more ounces. Obviously "some" of the perceived benefit. I've never ridden with one but the magazines have said it takes "all" the open class hit out. Can't be done with just 3oz. The mapping has to account for something here.

Personally I like the hit. The CR is as smooth or pipey as the rider wants it to be. I prefer not to have a massive weight, even just 3oz, soaking up some HP so I think it feels "smoother". It's got 5 gears, I've always found one to keep the rear end hooked up and driving me forward.
'03 CR500 powered by...umm...a new motor?
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AlisoBob
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Post by AlisoBob »

Tried to get the system working satisfactory before leaving for Jawbone...

No Bueno...

:?


Stocker is back on, and I'm pulling chocks in about 20 minutes..

I'll have to try it again later.
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M.F.D.B.
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Post by M.F.D.B. »

AlisoBob wrote:I'll have to try it again later.
JUNK...
Faster then Speedy Gonzalez, slower then the Road Runner!!! MEEP MEEP

2002 CR80
1999 Cr500
2003 CR250R
2005 CRF250R
2006 YZ450F
2005 CBR1000RR
1997 Banshee
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redrocket190
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Post by redrocket190 »

AlisoBob wrote:Tried to get the system working satisfactory before leaving for Jawbone...

No Bueno...

:?


Stocker is back on, and I'm pulling chocks in about 20 minutes..

I'll have to try it again later.
....I don't know whether to feel vindicated, or more mad at trying to get this working for so long.

...I read of the 2008 RMZ-450 that it needs a good spin of the crank to get the digital ignition to "know" where to fire the spark. Suzuki modified the kick starter gearing accordingly. But of course the CR500R design never had this in mind. Bob's theory is this is why the Electrosport box needs two or more quick kicks.

...still don't know what impact a flywheel weight on its own when added to the stock setup.

...still don't have a definitive comparison between the ignition curves stock v Electrosport other than the latter samples more often.

...AJ's last observation suggests that the need for the stronger lighting coil was key to going with the Electrosport ignition.

I have concluded that stock plus a flywheel weight (maybe) is the way to go if you do not need the 120w lighting performance.
Last edited by redrocket190 on February 18th, 2008, 10:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
Michael Stiles
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