Pre - Mix 101

Uncle Cracker · Post by **Uncle Cracker** » June 24th, 2007, 12:27 pm

I am reminded of a a saying "none so blind as those who will not see!!!!

britincali · Post by **britincali** » June 24th, 2007, 12:29 pm

pool cleaner wrote:I am reminded of a a saying "none so blind as those who will not see!!!!

MICK · Post by **MICK** » June 24th, 2007, 12:59 pm

Naw...I read it spanky.
And I respect your thoughts and comments. I just beleive there is such thing as too much oil. I wonder how much Ty Davis, Destry Abbott and the rest of Team Green used during the BITD series or Baja 1000.
32:1 is alot of oil for a 500. Period. Woods, MX, Desert or Dunes, I don't give a rats ass.

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » June 24th, 2007, 5:41 pm

MICK wrote: 32:1 is alot of oil for a 500. Period. Woods, MX, Desert or Dunes, I don't give a rats ass.

I'll agree with you on that. 500s generally can get away with less oil than other wo-strokes because they have such a low rev ceiling. A 500 doesn't rev much beyond 7000 rpm, and few riders ever keep them spinning at high rpms for long.

Keep in mind that I wrote that article without much thought to 500s. Few people own them, and most of the new generation of up-and-coming riders have never thrown a leg over one, and probably never will. Most riders own 85s, 125s and 250s. These engines rev much higher than a 500, and are more highly stressed. A 250 revs to and beyond 10K, 125s turn 12.5K, and 85s easily turn 13-14K. At these extreme rpms, oil migration time becomes very short. You have to increase the volume of oil accordingly to maintain proper lubricaion.

When I was still young and fast (don't you dare ask me how long ago that was

) I ran 26:1 in my 250s. At 32:1, I would find my engines dryer than I care to see at tear-down. Now that I'm old and slow, 32:1 is more than sufficient.

My point in writing that article was an attempt to educate people on the fact that every bike and every rider has different lubrication needs. You can't just make a blanket ratio recomendation that will work for everyone, it just isn't so. Your 500 (with a spode like me riding it) would be spewing oil like the Exxon Valdez at 20:1. But a screamin' fast future pro on an 85 might not even get through a day of racing at 50:1. Different bikes, different riders, different ratio requirements. That's why everyone should take the time to determine what oil ratio is right for them.

britincali · Post by **britincali** » June 24th, 2007, 5:44 pm

Spanky wrote: Your 500 (with a spode like me riding it) would be spewing oil like the Exxon Valdez at 20:1..

Nicely put

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » June 24th, 2007, 5:53 pm

Hey Briti, when ya bringin those 500s out here to Florida so we can take a spin?

britincali · Post by **britincali** » June 24th, 2007, 5:56 pm

Spanky wrote:Hey Briti, when ya bringin those 500s out here to Florida so we can take a spin?

Shoot I'll jump in the truck rite now, its only a 20 min drive rite

I'm going back to england for two weeks on tuesday, Im probably gonna hook up with zenith and have a few guinness's, he PMed me his celly so all Ive gotta do is get a boat to dublin

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » June 24th, 2007, 6:00 pm

Say hi to the Z for me!

britincali · Post by **britincali** » June 24th, 2007, 6:02 pm

Spanky wrote:Say hi to the Z for me!

You know it man

You ever get hold of germy?

Post by **AlisoBob** » June 24th, 2007, 7:08 pm

britincali wrote:....and have a few guinness's.....

bigpower · Post by **bigpower** » June 24th, 2007, 8:09 pm

britincali wrote:I replaced the seal on mine and it still leaked, I had to pull it all again to replace the seal AND steel collar.

So did I. SH has em cheep, so buy a couple for future reference!

Bob, I think you're right about that old catchers mitt

Post by **AlisoBob** » June 24th, 2007, 9:19 pm

Mick:

1. Tone down the language

2. The "proof" as you put it is Spankys dyno testing... If you dont agree, get your own dyno numbers for different ratios and post them up.

3. Spanky's article is about maximum power acheviable.. nothing more. Your stance is more whats acceptable for decent engine life.. Its an "Apples to Oranges" argument.

I have read many accounts that agree with Spanky's findings. Stop pestering him for data.... do your own research and report back.

Sound fair?

MICK · Post by **MICK** » August 3rd, 2007, 4:32 pm

Sounds fair...

Ok here is my conclusive evidence:

32:1 = too much!

I don't care about evidence, I don't need to see anything. I curtainly don't want somebody to waste his or her time to prove a point. Fact is I thought is was a silly claim and had to raise the BS flag. Nothing more. I don't care what everybody else runs and I'm curtainly no subject matter expert. If we were all riding together and I squeeked a top end I'd laugh at myself and tell you how stupid I was for not listening.

And spanky, no disrespect intended. I see people who have miraculous claims or think they've seen and done it all and I have to sharp shoot. Be devils advocate if you will *shrug*. Plenty of good fellas on here think I'm full of crack for thinking a balanced crank works quite well. But at the end of the day we just keep doing what we're doing, and having fun at that. I pitty the man who gets upset when a stranger on the internet says he's full of crap.

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » August 4th, 2007, 5:51 am

MICK wrote:Sounds fair...

Ok here is my conclusive evidence:

32:1 = too much!

Just curious, but did you even read all of what I wrote? If so, then I think you missed the point. The premise of the article is that ratios aren't one-size-fits-all. 32:1 is too much for you, on your bike, for your riding conditions. For me, on my bike, under my riding conditions, 32:1 is about right. When I was younger and much faster, 32:1 wasn't enough for me and my bike. For a Putt-putter on a KDX that has never even seen the top-side of the rev range, even 50:1 may be too much. For a smokin-fast up-and-coming young future pro on an 85, 32:1 probably isn't nearly enough oil.

It takes a little bit of testing and effort to determine what the best ratio is for YOU, on YOUR BIKE, in YOUR RIDING CONDITIONS. UNfortunately, most people are either too uninformed, or too lazy, to do this. Hence the reason for all the "What ratio should I run for my Yamazuwy 125?" posts. All of those questions are the reason that I wrote that article.

Get the point now?

And spanky, no disrespect intended. of the day we just keep doing what we're doing, and having fun at that. I pitty the man who gets upset when a stranger on the internet says he's full of crap.

No disrespect taken, nor do I get upset when someone disagees with me. I just like a good debate!

britincali · Post by **britincali** » August 4th, 2007, 8:12 am

I have run castor 927 @ 40 : 1 in my 500s for years now, even at the time of rebuild everything is clean inside and no signs of sticking.

Post by **AlisoBob** » August 4th, 2007, 11:46 am

The hardest thing to lube is not the piston skirt, its the rod " Big End" due to centrifugal force throwing the oil off.

That said, 40:1 should do it!

lewisclan · Post by **lewisclan** » August 4th, 2007, 4:56 pm

MICK · Post by **MICK** » August 4th, 2007, 5:14 pm

Then cheers to us spanky... There is no golden ratio.

...but I still think 32:1 is alot

dahondaboy · Post by **dahondaboy** » January 17th, 2008, 12:22 pm

how bout this, my 76 bultaco frontera 370 ran at a factory recomended 20:1 of 30w motor oil! now thats thick and you know what? i never fouled a plug or had any spooge the 20 years i rode it, and it was my desert racer. as for my cr500 ill stick to the 40:1 so most of the original post makes sense to me.

ISBB · Post by **ISBB** » January 17th, 2008, 12:52 pm

40:1 w/ 927 and 110+ octane fuel.. me bike LOVES IT!! no spooge either..

fastkart · Post by **fastkart** » January 17th, 2008, 4:51 pm

I'd seize my motor at 40:1 in my application. I run my Wiseco's cleared at .007, otherwise they seize, even with 32:1 Blendzall in C12. My CR500 is strapped to a oval track kart and run at WOT for extended periods of time pushing 8500 rpm's.

aloha450x · Post by **aloha450x** » January 17th, 2008, 5:51 pm

what do you mean "stick"

Post by **AlisoBob** » January 17th, 2008, 5:58 pm

aloha450x wrote:what do you mean "stick"

aloha450x · Post by **aloha450x** » January 17th, 2008, 6:09 pm

damm i cant even get a break. lol

fastkart · Post by **fastkart** » January 17th, 2008, 7:02 pm

Is that better?

BannedCR500Riders.com

Pre - Mix 101