Fuel Injection, latest and greatest?

[seanmx57]

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2011/09/d ... injection/

For a scooter dude, he seems to have some tricks up his sleeve.

[B440]

I like the idea of better fuel economy for my street-titled bike, but we still have the problem of not enough watts to run PFI and not drain a battery.

[Kuma]

looks like all they are doing is 65cc scooters, how 'bout something for the big boys? they have an interesting turbo'd unit setup, it looks like it is on the end of the chamber.

[ChumlyRocksa540]

Couldn't a lighting coil take care of that?

[2strokeforever]

he hasnt emailed me back.....
why is he screwing around with mopeds bikes need it way more and theres way more money in it too,

[B440]

Possible guesses
Scooters already have batteries and lighting coils

They mostly run WFO so tuning is easier

Maybe there's a larger demand for scooter performance in other countries

[B440]

Also, it looks as though he cheaped out and only made the investment in a 0-30hp scooter dyno

[Kuma]

Also, it looks as though he cheaped out and only made the investment in a 0-30hp scooter dyno

He should just drop the EFI and make a CR500 conversion in that scooter

[B440]

This topic is in every forum I look at. I found this while doing research on the microcontroller HGT is using:

http://www.ecotrons.com/400cc_to_800cc_ ... I_kit.html

400cc-800cc kit all ready to go for $500. It appears to be a semi-self-tuning kit with the O2 sensor. Looks cheaply built, but the price is right. What do you think?

[Roostius_Maximus]

all cool, but the o2 sensor wont work on 2stroke

[Kuma]

all cool, but the o2 sensor wont work on 2stroke

Won't work, or won't work for very long? was wondering if any one has had experience using an O2 sensor on a 2 stroke?

[B440]

the O2 will work, but placement is key. A guy on the RZ350 forum did EFI using the Microsquirt controller and wideband O2. For how long it remains consistant is the unknown.

[Roostius_Maximus]

i'd be interested in that, the NGK sensor is even reccomended not for 2-strokes.

[AlisoBob]

The oil residue should kill it pretty quick, me thinks.....

[Kuma]

I've got a wide band setup, since we drifted on to this subject I was just wondering how I could use it for tuning, where to place the sensor. for that matter where is the ideal place to put an exhaust sensor seems to be plenty of ideas on that one too.

[2strokeforever]

The oil residue should kill it pretty quick, me thinks.....

i think so too, but whether it lasts long enough to get a good enough fuel curve for open loop is the real question

[B440]

This is on an RZ350 street bike

[gregrobo]

this will happen in the near future once it does the flood gates will open and honda will still have thier heads up there arses and will have missed the boat so who will be first

[2strokeforever]

got emails back, the system takes 5 amps @12 volts....
gonna take a pretty powerful stator to run that, once my bikes running im gonna check whether its able to put out that kind of power, im hoping it can with my DC/DC coinverter setup

[2strokeforever]

$600, and its gonna take 6-10 amps 12 volts, that includes a 12v CDI, dual injectors 42mm throttle body (its 110mm long, pwk is 90mm, close enough)

looking into crf 250 stators and flywheels fitting on to the cr500, i dont think pickup location will matter.....
theres 90 watt crf 250 stator flywheel combos out there

if anyone has a crf 250 stator and flywheel could you try and fit it on the 500 and see if its possible without too much work

[bearorso]

Maybe there's a larger demand for scooter performance in other countries

Oh , shit yes!

There's a Massive market in Europe, and into Asia. Anyone that thinks it's small beans is rather ignorant of the market he has been working with / supplying.

I saw this fellows posts / story on 2 stroke motocross, and, on my way to France for the MX Des, I borrowed a lap top and sent him an E mail.

The Email was to point out how much easier the production, and subsequent stocking of new throttle bodies would be for him than he thought - he obviously had not known that he could cover the modern 2 stroke market with the one set of body outer dimensions, and either have only a few with different IDs, or even just the one body with a few inserts.

We All know that the 36 / 38 / 39.5 / 41.5 (?) Keihins are the same key dimensions ( is there a slightly shorter, through the venturi centre line one?).

I informed him of this, giving him ideas on finding the key dimensions, from the Keihin catalogues all through the net, to those shops would have. Emphasizing that the amortization of costs would be much easier for him to achieve than he thought. As price is a key issue. The potential market he could have, If this works well, All through the rev range, is enormous, with most 2ts using carbs with the same basic dimensions for well over 20 years, plus the shear amount of KTMs that have been sold / are still being sold.

I checked the story and questions put to him only once, I think he took some of it in, and others may have directed him as well. I could see that with a butterfly throttle valve, a slightly bigger ID may be necessary / possible, but not the 'OMG' size he thought would be required for something like a CR500.

It will be interesting to see how this goes, or if some other companies can make something that works well, and is affordable. There's a Huge potential market, if it's reasonably affordable, though it Would Have to deliver well above the classic PWKs, that cost so little.

I hope it's as good as he feels it is, and he doesn't get sidetracked into making special set ups for peoples weird projects, but address' the 36 through to 41,5mm market. If it works well, we might find all applications can go a bit bigger, without sacrificing real world performance and flexibility.

[seanmx57]

anyone know what a digital cr250 igntion with a moose stator set outputs in amps?

My memory is thinking 70 watts? I guess I should convert it myself, duh.

[seanmx57]

70/12 = 5.8 amps

No wonder those elines are bringing the bucks.

[2strokeforever]

not enough....
remember it takes almost full current at idle, 250 ignition on a 500 gives
absolutly nothing (to a 12 volt system) at idle and not very much even when your pinned

if i get the entire stator rewound for "lighting" (the cdi it comes with is a 12v dc setup) and get a 120 watt DC/DC converter im sure it would be enough to power the EFI system
120 watts = 10 amps @ 12 volts

if i do it i will be buying the ecotrons kit, epoxy potted, the HGT one isnt so it would probably last a week on the 500, the ecotron one is also $400 less
ecotrons answered emails really quick, on a kit like this being able to get a hold of someone to help if your stuck is gonna be important

[Rhino89523]

What is it about EFI you guys want so bad, I don't get it. So much work, cash, and extra parts to break to squeeze a few pony's out of a bike so few can use the pony's that are already there. I have carbs on all my stuff we use in the forest and desert and a carb has never left me walking.....I drag home new sensor filled EFI trucks all the time. I understand the advantages but being able to fix stuff with a few basic tools when your 35 miles from your house by yourself on your 500 is a huge advantage too. K.I.S.S. maybe I live by that too much.....does this mean I am officially old?