thinking about doing a 2002 CRF450 AF conversion

[joman2055]

Alright guys, I have a bit of a problem and need some advice.

I own a 2002 CRF450 and a 1998 CR500 that i just rebuilt about 2 years ago.

I currently live in San Diego (college) and have the CR with me while the 450 resides in nor cal. I LOVE both bikes. However, the 450 needs a complete engine rebuild (head, piston, crank, the works) which I roughly figure will be around $1500. Which is just shy of what the bike is worth. I have been kicking around the idea of either A) throwing the engine from my current CR into the 450 and consolidating to one bike, B) getting a CR donor to make a CR from, C) just rebuild the CRF

I expect my bikes to be a jack of all trades and both bikes currently work extremely well for every type of riding, but the CR500 is a bit of a pig and every time i ride it quickly i wish it was slimmer in the hips because i find it much harder to grip than my 450.

So old wise ones, what should I do?

P.S. I have absolutely zero welding ability but I am a pretty good mechanic and getting a mechanical engineering degree so i know some stuff, just the welding will have to be outsourced which is a PITA but will probably be free

TL;DR should i build an AF?

and for those who like pictures, here are my babies.


that POS paddle was a temp and replaced with a propper Skat Trak

[scooter5002]

Having been the victim of a bad, ney, stupid choice, here's my thought. Get ahold of Solid or Paul Stoffers, give them your frame and motor, and have them call you when it's done. First and foremost, be willing to SPEND THE MONEY AND GET THE JOB DONE RIGHT! You won't regret it. If this is going to be a long term bike, it'll be worth it. You won't need to waste any of your time trying to get stuff done either. I've learned that lesson a few times in my life, most recently with the ass-fuckin I took getting my frame done. Your in San Diego, your bike is up north, Solid is in greater L.A. and Paulie is in Oakdale, east of Modesto. Seems like a no-brainer to me. I met Paul a couple months ago after I delivered in Modesto, and he's a stand-up guy. Pissed I didn't bring my frame for him to re-do. Just my humble opinion.

[scooter5002]

123

[scooter5002]

I'll amend that thought. If you did all the dis-assembly work yourself with the die grinder for a full rail replacement you can save some money on the job and be a little further ahead. I've seen here that it's time consuming to do that.

[riverman]

I could not agree more. About letting someone else do the frame. I have all of the tools and a great shop to work out of and the fab skills to do it. I have been working on my bike for about 7 months I thought I could get it done over the winter. The frame is done ran it a few times found tank and engine problems. Now I'm waiting on the top end to be machined. There always seems to be something more important to do. I work full time and have a side buisness and take care of my home and my mothers so there is always something.
I'll be watching what you do. I recently traded some stuff for a 02 450 roller. I was going to do another one but who knows. Engines are very hard to find.
GOOD LUCK

[joman2055]

you guys are probably right about having someone else do the frame for me.

as far as finding an engine, i would probably just buy a whole new bike and try and sell the roller, i would also sell my 450 engine and exhaust to try and get some cash back.

[100hp honda]

i wouldnt put a penny into that 450 engine. thats just me though. pawn it off to some sucker on ebay and let him deal with it

[scooter5002]

you guys are probably right about having someone else do the frame for me.

as far as finding an engine, i would probably just buy a whole new bike and try and sell the roller, i would also sell my 450 engine and exhaust to try and get some cash back.

That's what I did. Sold my motor, albeit rebuilt with 12 hrs on it before I thought of doing an AF, for $700. Paid a grand for my frame job. Course I got fucked but whatever. Peddle as much stuff as you can and you will be into your new toy for less. I would sell your carb separate from your motor. Maximize your profit on what you sell.

[joman2055]

$1K for the frame work? that seems a bit steep to me. is that generally what it costs if i send the frame to someone?

P.S. I just talked to my dad and ran my plan by him, all he said was "sounds expensive". well so does rebuilding the engine thats already in the bike. Assuming I get around $1K for the engine and exhaust (i hope to get more), and buying and selling a CR500 roller, I think it will cost around the same when its all said and done.

[scooter5002]

I can't tell you going rates are other than what I paid. When I say I got fucked I mean quality, not price. The moron I used usually charges more, he told me, but was doing mine as a "cash" job. Evidently "cash" is Toledo code speak for "shit". PM Solid or pstoffers and see what they charge. I think Solid is SUPER busy and doesn't always have time to check his msgs, you may have to rattle the CEO's chain to help get his attention. I PM'd Paul a few times and he always got back to me immediately. If you are doing a full rail replacement, definitely do some of that work yourself to cut the cost. Save the rails as a template for the new ones and don't cut off more above the "Y" than neccessary. As in right at the weld. Leave your fab guy the right amount of material to work with and he can cut the down-frame to length. Also, while your dad has a point, quality work costs money. Old expression I will toss in here. "If you want nice fresh oats, those will cost you some money. You want the ones that have been through the horse already, those come a little cheaper". I REALLY regret goin to that blenderhead in Toledo, but I (of course) didn't discover this site until after my frame was modded.

[AlisoBob]

$1K for the frame work? that seems a bit steep to me.

I like how some guys have no skils to do it themselves, so they expect someone else to do it for free.

What do you consider reasonable? $200?



x 491

[Gmbond]

I only bought a set of mounts from Paul and that deal was top notch!

The length of time in welding alone accounts for a fair part of cost, but you also want to figure in time even just for cleaning and prep to remove old mounts, welds etc.... It takes some time. If you are willing to do it yourself it is doable, but you need to expect to pay for decent work.

You can't pay too much for quality, but you can pay too little for crap

[joman2055]

$1K for the frame work? that seems a bit steep to me.

I like how some guys have no skils to do it themselves, so they expect someone else to do it for free.

What do you consider reasonable? $200?



x 491

Oh come on, I don't think I deserve that. If it was something that no one has ever done before I could see it costing over $1000 but I thought that someone who has done a ton of these could crank one out pretty quick without a whole lot of trial and error (where I imagine most of the time would be spent on one of these conversion) therefore lowering the price a bit. Just a bit of sticker shock at the $1000 price tag I guess, I was expecting something closer to $700-800. I am not trying to get something for nothing here, $200 is just stupid. Bob, I realize that you have put a lot of time and effort into these bikes, and my reaction to the $1000 figure insulted you.

How many hours go into one of these frames (for someone who has done a few already) and whats a rough cost of materials for something like this?

What would be the rough price if I brought someone a frame with everything cut off and just needed the Y moved, new rails put in, engine mounts, and headstay? (Missing anything there?)

By the way, I probably could do this entire thing myself (besides the welding), but having never done one of these bikes or even seen one in person, I figure it would take me forever to get done.

[jarnott71]

your looking at $ 350 for good mounts and you will have a hell of a time bending the tubes unless you spend big money on a good bender find a welder and hope he is good and dont ruin all your stuff and willing to put his ass on the line welding somthing he really dont know nothing about even if he is good prolly dont weld frames together allday and that is going to cost $200 to 400 now your at over a grand and the work you do your self will be paying your self like 5 bucks an hour youll be in deep the stuff i see on hear that ps and bro do is worth well over a grand and id expect to pay alot more than a grand for it bet if their is ever a proplem they would fix it i built my own frame it is nice but i bet my time and materieals would far surpass 2-3 thousand unless you just cut up old mounts and re use them and dont mind riding a hack job also the head stay on the 450 will cost you to

[AlisoBob]

I am a pretty good mechanic know some stuff, just the welding will have to be outsourced which is a PITA but will probably be free

This site has more than enough info for you to do a home-made conversion.

Buy some tubing and mounts from Stoffers, get out the sawzall.... and have at it.

Get some free welding to hold the whole thing together, make your head stays, relocate your exhaust and sliencer mounts, re-do the radiator inlets and outlets,add a coil mount, etc..etc..etc...... done.

[Kuma]

a grand sounds pretty reasonable for the quality of work and product you will end up with, you are not only paying for the time it takes them to do the work, your paying for their experience and product development.

There is satisfaction in doing it yourself but if you ad up the time you put into a project and pay your self what ever you feel your time is worth you will likely find doing it your self was not the best idea.
If you have an option of working some extra work hours that you would have spent on your project depending on what you do, your extra pay may cover most of the cost.
just my for what it's worth, about

[hoofarted]

This site has more than enough info for you to do a home-made conversion.

Buy some tubing and mounts from Stoffers, get out the sawzall.... and have at it.

Get some free welding to hold the whole thing together, make your head stays, relocate your exhaust and sliencer mounts, re-do the radiator inlets and outlets,add a coil mount, etc..etc..etc...... done.

^^Exactly^^

These really arent that hard - especially if you're studying mechanical engineering d00d. All the cuts, etc are really straightforward. Just take your time - measure twice, cut once - lol. Personally, I'd avoid the "free" welding all together and source a good AL welder in SD. When I did mine, I had everything in place from swingarm to headstay. Welder tacked it in place - then I removed motor, etc and he finished it up proper.

[joman2055]

the "free" welding would be through a large welding and fabrication shop that we use at work. i am confident in their Aluminum welding, I have had them do a few things for me in the past and was happy with the result.

[Roostius_Maximus]

buy the airbox parts, mess arround swapping that and making the adaptor, fit the exhasut and weld new hangers on the chassis.
I'm building a 2006 crf450 / 500 for a dude at the moment and know i under quoted it by 200-300

[nmdesertrider]

remember if you screw it up the first time you can get another frame on ebay cheap- my first conversion sucked but my second is solid

[AMA714]

Im not trying to burst your bubble... but i doubt you'll get much for the roached 02 CRF450 engine. They were not that good in 02 and there are tons of newer half baked ones around for next to nothing.

Just an FYI, I sold a 12 hour 2008 CRF250 for $1200 and threw in the ignition, pipe, carb just to move it...

I had MXDogger do my cradle.. money well spent in my opinion. The bent (properly) rails are several hundred, billet mounts a couple more... you get the idea.. If you want to keep the budget down, move the Y up, add a length of tube and do it yourself.

[joman2055]

after trying to ride the 500 on a very slick track this weekend and having no fun trying to keep the rear end in place, i have decided to rebuild my 450. i think the rebuild may come out cheaper than i was initially thinking as well.

however, i am dead set on building a 500AF. i am going to be on the lookout for a 2002 CR250 (i love the look of the frame and i need a 2002 for a CA green sticker)

[jarnott71]

yea if its not fun to learn how to be a better rider just spend money on four strokes it does take a GOOD rider or practice to handle a mans bike throttle contoll is the best thing you can learn for any type of riding and the 500 will teach you more than any other bike i can think of

[KE 336]

i have decided to rebuild my 450. i think the rebuild may come out cheaper than i was initially thinking as well.

Didn't you mention money being a little tight and not wanted to spend a fortune? This is just my opinion, putting money into that old 450 would be the WORST use of money you could ever spend!