So I think the brakes on my 90 kinda suck, and they're 20 frign years old right? The pads are new-ish, Ive flushed the lines and got good clean fluid. They just kinda lack luster.
Ive seen some kits for the 91-01 models but didnt see anything for the 90. Also has anyone swapped brakes from another Honda model? Oh yeah, these are the fronts Im talking about, the rear seems to do its job.
Braking question about brakes
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scooter5002
- Posts: 425
- Joined: July 31st, 2010, 5:22 am
- Location: Tillsonburg On
Quick and easy fix might be to try a braided stainless line. See if anyone offers 1 for a bike that old. I'm sure the banjo fittings are standard, so if nothing is available, match one for length off a newer model and try it. That will definitely make a difference. That's 1 of the first things I do to a bike because the OEM brake lines are so weak.
Yeah that's sportbike 101, the connection at the master is different. That's why I was wondering if anyone has used a different master cylinder. I've got a 05 crf and it looks like a swap, but that's looks.scooter5002 wrote:Quick and easy fix might be to try a braided stainless line. See if anyone offers 1 for a bike that old. I'm sure the banjo fittings are standard, so if nothing is available, match one for length off a newer model and try it. That will definitely make a difference. That's 1 of the first things I do to a bike because the OEM brake lines are so weak.
I have swapped brake components back and forth, from 05 and older and never noticed much change in their operation. You can do it without fear.
I have found old stock brake lines do get soft, and lose brake feel and power, along with bi-annual fluid changes and sintered HH+ pads, the power has come back.
On some well kept hi mile bikes the rotors become thin, which effects brake feel, power, and fade quite a bit.
For added performance I like EBC 280mm full floating kits.
The standard rotors have more surface area and actually have more brake power than the wavy or contour rotors of the same diameter.
I have found old stock brake lines do get soft, and lose brake feel and power, along with bi-annual fluid changes and sintered HH+ pads, the power has come back.
On some well kept hi mile bikes the rotors become thin, which effects brake feel, power, and fade quite a bit.
For added performance I like EBC 280mm full floating kits.
The standard rotors have more surface area and actually have more brake power than the wavy or contour rotors of the same diameter.
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2strokeforever
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: November 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Vernon B.C Canada
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Rhino89523
- Posts: 1230
- Joined: November 18th, 2010, 1:45 pm
I personally like the stock honda line best. Get new pads and clean your old stuff up real good a little dab of grease or oil will make a mess of the brake feel. I somehow got a little dab of something on my rear a few years back, first corner I almost died, tried dragging them a while to clean them up and it didn't work. fat shot of brake clean next day...back in action.
I won't be buying anymore 280 kits. The rotors bend by looking at them.
If your rotor is FLAT, not warped, not dished from wear etc you can clean it with scotch brite to get back to metal, not metal with rust, dirt, oil etc in the mix. New pads and 10 stops to break the pads in. Don't drag the brake. 10 hard stops at speed will break in a new set if the disc is good.
Zip ty the front brake lever on over night and tap on the hose to get the air completely out. Leaving the brake applied allows the air to escape up.
If your rotor is FLAT, not warped, not dished from wear etc you can clean it with scotch brite to get back to metal, not metal with rust, dirt, oil etc in the mix. New pads and 10 stops to break the pads in. Don't drag the brake. 10 hard stops at speed will break in a new set if the disc is good.
Zip ty the front brake lever on over night and tap on the hose to get the air completely out. Leaving the brake applied allows the air to escape up.
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scooter5002
- Posts: 425
- Joined: July 31st, 2010, 5:22 am
- Location: Tillsonburg On
Went on the HOT site to check the parts fiche. See what you mean about the hose end style. I had a 93 YZ250 with that style hose end on it and the master went out on it. Rather than rebuild it I just ordered a 93 CR250 master to replace it with. Since a Honda came with the best brakes anyway. Bought a stainless line, bolted it up and bled away. Whatever you want to put on there shouldn't really be an issue, just how much do you want to spend? 08 450F master is 120 at HOT I think.
I dont want to spend a ton, but coming back to dirtbikes from trackbike the cr's fronts kinda suck, but mine are 20 years old.scooter5002 wrote:Went on the HOT site to check the parts fiche. See what you mean about the hose end style. I had a 93 YZ250 with that style hose end on it and the master went out on it. Rather than rebuild it I just ordered a 93 CR250 master to replace it with. Since a Honda came with the best brakes anyway. Bought a stainless line, bolted it up and bled away. Whatever you want to put on there shouldn't really be an issue, just how much do you want to spend? 08 450F master is 120 at HOT I think.
My wife has a 05crf250r and I swear the master lever and line look like it would bolt right up. I was hoping that some has already tried something. I dont want to rip shit apart to find it wont fly. I also wonder about the mechanical aspect between the two calipers.
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caseyracing222
- Posts: 569
- Joined: January 28th, 2009, 4:20 pm
Honda brakes are the best IMO, I wish I could put a set on my yz. lightly scuff the pads on a bench grinder and then buff it with the wire wheel and clean up your rotor that should helprobfromga wrote:I dont want to spend a ton, but coming back to dirtbikes from trackbike the cr's fronts kinda suck, but mine are 20 years old.scooter5002 wrote:Went on the HOT site to check the parts fiche. See what you mean about the hose end style. I had a 93 YZ250 with that style hose end on it and the master went out on it. Rather than rebuild it I just ordered a 93 CR250 master to replace it with. Since a Honda came with the best brakes anyway. Bought a stainless line, bolted it up and bled away. Whatever you want to put on there shouldn't really be an issue, just how much do you want to spend? 08 450F master is 120 at HOT I think.
My wife has a 05crf250r and I swear the master lever and line look like it would bolt right up. I was hoping that some has already tried something. I dont want to rip shit apart to find it wont fly. I also wonder about the mechanical aspect between the two calipers.
-Jake
The CRF unit would almost certainly fit.
As you said - you've 20 year old brakes. If all of the points about lines and worn discs that people have pointed out are OK, the next thing is the MC piston, and it's bore. And / or the caliper seals, piston or bore.
The MC piston cups / seals wear, just like piston rings. Wear of those, and or the bore, will allow bleed down - like blow-by on rings. Thus not delivering the full compressive power of the MC piston to the slave pistons in the caliper. Which leads to the caliper seals and pistons. They too can be worn. Whilst not enough to leak, the seals may have gone soft over the years, becoming compressible, or they may be 'tweaking' in their landings, again lessening the compressive power to the slave pistons, then to the brake pads. Or,they may have gone very hard, thus having a death grip on the slave pistons.
Old brakes - rebuild. Simple to do, relatively cheap. Perhaps you can find new parts / complete assemblies on EBay cheaper.
Just think, before you rip off the MC or other parts from your wife's bike, about how much you care about her. Putting something onto her bike, that's not up to snuff, can get her hurt. If, as I may, perhaps wrongly assume, she is a slower rider than you, it Does Not mean she should have her brakes reduced in effectiveness.
One other thing : the calipers are floating. If they are unable to float, you'll be loosing a lot of power, you'll have to be bending the disc, to get both pads in contact. And then you'll not have pad surfaces at right angles to the axle line, pistons will cock and perhaps jam in the bore, and the floating caliper bores may be binding on their pins. A good indication of floating caliper problems is uneven wear on pads. Most people never think about cleaning and lubing the caliper / pin interface, nor check the rubber bellows that seal them.
As you said - you've 20 year old brakes. If all of the points about lines and worn discs that people have pointed out are OK, the next thing is the MC piston, and it's bore. And / or the caliper seals, piston or bore.
The MC piston cups / seals wear, just like piston rings. Wear of those, and or the bore, will allow bleed down - like blow-by on rings. Thus not delivering the full compressive power of the MC piston to the slave pistons in the caliper. Which leads to the caliper seals and pistons. They too can be worn. Whilst not enough to leak, the seals may have gone soft over the years, becoming compressible, or they may be 'tweaking' in their landings, again lessening the compressive power to the slave pistons, then to the brake pads. Or,they may have gone very hard, thus having a death grip on the slave pistons.
Old brakes - rebuild. Simple to do, relatively cheap. Perhaps you can find new parts / complete assemblies on EBay cheaper.
Just think, before you rip off the MC or other parts from your wife's bike, about how much you care about her. Putting something onto her bike, that's not up to snuff, can get her hurt. If, as I may, perhaps wrongly assume, she is a slower rider than you, it Does Not mean she should have her brakes reduced in effectiveness.
One other thing : the calipers are floating. If they are unable to float, you'll be loosing a lot of power, you'll have to be bending the disc, to get both pads in contact. And then you'll not have pad surfaces at right angles to the axle line, pistons will cock and perhaps jam in the bore, and the floating caliper bores may be binding on their pins. A good indication of floating caliper problems is uneven wear on pads. Most people never think about cleaning and lubing the caliper / pin interface, nor check the rubber bellows that seal them.
bearorso wrote:The CRF unit would almost certainly fit.
As you said - you've 20 year old brakes. If all of the points about lines and worn discs that people have pointed out are OK, the next thing is the MC piston, and it's bore. And / or the caliper seals, piston or bore.
The MC piston cups / seals wear, just like piston rings. Wear of those, and or the bore, will allow bleed down - like blow-by on rings. Thus not delivering the full compressive power of the MC piston to the slave pistons in the caliper. Which leads to the caliper seals and pistons. They too can be worn. Whilst not enough to leak, the seals may have gone soft over the years, becoming compressible, or they may be 'tweaking' in their landings, again lessening the compressive power to the slave pistons, then to the brake pads. Or,they may have gone very hard, thus having a death grip on the slave pistons.
Old brakes - rebuild. Simple to do, relatively cheap. Perhaps you can find new parts / complete assemblies on EBay cheaper.
Just think, before you rip off the MC or other parts from your wife's bike, about how much you care about her. Putting something onto her bike, that's not up to snuff, can get her hurt. If, as I may, perhaps wrongly assume, she is a slower rider than you, it Does Not mean she should have her brakes reduced in effectiveness.
One other thing : the calipers are floating. If they are unable to float, you'll be loosing a lot of power, you'll have to be bending the disc, to get both pads in contact. And then you'll not have pad surfaces at right angles to the axle line, pistons will cock and perhaps jam in the bore, and the floating caliper bores may be binding on their pins. A good indication of floating caliper problems is uneven wear on pads. Most people never think about cleaning and lubing the caliper / pin interface, nor check the rubber bellows that seal them.
Good points. I wasnt going to steal her rig, just wondering if it would fit...the couch is only so comfortable ya know?
The pads are new, rotor is within the wear limits and straight. As far as checking the caliper, it look good for a 20 year old bit.
I need to go check the mounting points for the caliper on the crf, wonder if the caliper will interchange? Im assuming the disc size between the crf and the cr wouldnt be the same.