Observations of different keihin carbs.particpation encourag

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dubious01
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Observations of different keihin carbs.particpation encourag

Post by dubious01 »

Some of this has been observed by the likes of Sean, Adam and others...
some may not,

I thought I would share, and hope others will participate with positive input, and logical suggestions or questions.

OK, so I have a few carbs laying around the garage....

Left to right>>

97 CR250 keihin PJ38 with powerjet
99 CR250 PWK 38 airstriker
01 KX250 PWK 38 airstriker powerjet with TPS

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Left
I have never ran or used the 97 cr250 carb.
It has the largest fuel inlet, a large float bowl capacity, powejet located at 50% tp.
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Center:
99 CR250 carb... I ran one of these bored out to ~ 40.5 mm and then offset 3mm up, with the top of the slide milled to clear the opening.
It was essentially ~ 40.5 x 43mm, and a nightmare to jet. We did not cut out the air stryker vanes or mod the bell/ volute on the airfilter side.
I think an intellijet would have helped immensly.

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Immediatly I noticed the kx250 carb looked to have more material, in hopes it would be bored out bigger, but the inner bell taper is whats different. The outer volute dimensions are the same as the others. The idle air screw cct, and choke ccts are position the same as the other pwk carbs, limiting the size it can be bored.
I like the powerjet option, but even more so the TPS.
powejet is located at the 1/4 throttle position
needle jet has casting modifiactions in front of needle, for better atomization and higher velocity at the needle, acting like an aerofoil I imagine.

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Like I said in the past, my last bike had an issue with timing. I think the right curve would have helped immensly, but a 3d ignition curve could possibly be great addition.
The biggest break though in 4 stroke carburetion was the FCR carb, mostly because of the accelerator pump.... it dumps extra fuel richening the cct, when they wack it open.... another issue I found with my last built cr500 motor. Powerjet could be useful. I couldn't seem to tune out a lean spot when I opened the throttle fast, it would ping 2-3 times at a specific rpm, when wfo,
Maybe just an intellijet would have fixed that ?
The fourstrokes also got better with 3D ignition timing, and TPS.
I would imagine detonation control, fuel loading, and improved fuel ccts would help the 2 strokes as well, especially the big bore though.


I may be on the wrong track, or I may not.
The things I don't like about the kxcarb... well it has the smallest fuel inlet port, smaller float bowl, least taper in the volute.
Most of that can be fixed if necessary.

opinions, and experience encouraged.
dubious01
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Post by dubious01 »

Thought I would mention that I bought some moose carb rebuild kits for the PWK carbs, and they came with brass Idle speed screws, in addition to the new needle valves, jets, needle, and o rings for the carb.

a world better than the bendy stock plastic idle speed screws they come with.

:cool:
seanmx57
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Post by seanmx57 »

hey I'm just a dum ass that willing to play with brass rather than riding :roll:
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Post by 100hp honda »

i take it you guys dont get along :lol: . put differences aside and be buds like me and bob. tell em bob, we tight aint we :D
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Post by dubious01 »

I have bought parts from Sean in the past

I am hoping he is being sarcastic
I will have 2 bikes to ride so I will tune and play with 1, and still have the other to ride.
I guess I will play with brass and ride :D
Last edited by dubious01 on September 7th, 2010, 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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AlisoBob
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Post by AlisoBob »

100hp honda wrote: .... tell em bob, we tight aint we :D
Your sister is.

:lol:
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Post by seanmx57 »

who me?, Never. I'm always serious :twisted:

yankee humor.
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Post by dubious01 »

well I'm just dumb ass who likes to make more HP when its too cold to ride.... winters are long in Canada.

It beats watching hockey, or reality TV....
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Roostius_Maximus
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Post by Roostius_Maximus »

thats the problem, we have months of looking at the thing sit there, gets alot of ideas going and $ hidden in the garage
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2strokeforever
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Post by 2strokeforever »

thats the problem, we have months of looking at the thing sit there, gets alot of ideas going and $ hidden in the garage
its a simple cure, rejet and continue riding till spring... thats what i do, and in the spring when its muddy everyone is flailing their arms and feet trying to stay on their bike while i cruise right by
because after riding down skidder trails with frozen puddles (and 2" sticks) underneath the snow (you cant see either) you get really good at dealing with slick conditions and recovering from unexpected slipping
the 450 will have less power and will be harder to start, and will be heavier, but to make up for it it will require more maintenance.
4stroke=dead fish
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Post by dubious01 »

oh, I do ride in winter when its nice enough too....

Vernon boys are spoiled, and don't see much weather colder then -15C, Manitoba and Alberta .... well -15 is nice weather for us... typically its -20 with a good wind chill here, and Manitoba is drifted like a mother. Its real windy there... and cold!

Maybe we can hook up in the spring when I am down that way to ride.
Where do you ride?
Noble Canyon / silver star?
Bear creek?
White man creek?
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Post by Roostius_Maximus »

no shit, i can have dads 1998 machz if i want it, seen 2 days that i'd ride last year, and we had ALOT of snow.
probably 5 years ago we rode on the lake with picks, was awesome, its froze while blowing snow on it the last few and been a cheese grater so we stay away

when we did go it was awesome, we were hillclimbing a dirt face on the end of the lake, all summer it looked like the tracks came strait out of the water :wink:
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Post by 2strokeforever »

Maybe we can hook up in the spring when I am down that way to ride.
Where do you ride?
Noble Canyon / silver star?
Bear creek?
White man creek?
sounds great i go every weekend give me an email or pm a few weeks before you come over

on may long theres the squealing pig race at bardolph (noble canyon) if youre up for that
Where do you ride?
Noble Canyon
silver star
kamloops
becker/bardolph
silver creek


havent been to bear creek since i was on an 80 but next year ill probably be getting a little tired of my regular areas by then s[/quote]
the 450 will have less power and will be harder to start, and will be heavier, but to make up for it it will require more maintenance.
4stroke=dead fish
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Post by dubious01 »

cool, so how wide is your rear rim for the tublis?
how you powering the rad fans? you got a build thread, or a thread displaying your bike?



I think i better start off with some trail rides before i race, and I would rather preride a race too...

May long.... haaa you would have ridden it for 6 weeks before the race! LMAO sandbagger! haha

I will get with ya for sure though. I'd like to do some kamloops.
do you do bachelor hills, or greenstone duffy lake or what.

Wher does Guy Perret ride, and all the old terra firma 4,5,6 movies?
you ever ride with him? or see those vids?
Last edited by dubious01 on September 10th, 2010, 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dubious01 »

so I found a programable aftermarket cdi for tps, but no powervalve control. I will keep looking....
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2strokeforever
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Post by 2strokeforever »

so I found a programable aftermarket cdi for tps, but no powervalve control. I will keep looking....
stock cr 250 05 and up i believe have TPS and power valve control and a servo to go with, and you can make a difrent cam/ratio to make the pv open difrently you could go cr 250 max power is at 9000rpm and 500 max hp is at 6500 so gear servo up 1.38 and itl be relativly close
you would have ridden it for 6 weeks before the race
actualy im helping make the race and ill be putting nasty obstacles everywhere i can :lol: and iv already practiced most of it that exists :D
but also if you beat me i guarantee youll never forget, or let me forget, and if i beat you its no biggie because of all my practice, win/win for you
I think i better start off with some trail rides before i race, and I would rather preride a race too...
easy then come a week or 2 early or as long as you can :wink:

rear rim is 2.15X18
I'd like to do some kamloops.
do you do bachelor hills
ya bachelor heights is good but too easy and i like barnhartvale too and havent been anywhere else in kamloops riding :cry: but i heard its good

i think(but dont really know) that part of terrifirma was shot at bachelor heights

heres how i power my fans, not sexy but it works, i am going to get a lighting coil eventualy tho
Image

bike threads

http://www.bannedcr500riders.com/board/ ... php?t=9317

http://www.bannedcr500riders.com/board/ ... highlight=

http://www.bannedcr500riders.com/board/ ... php?t=9779
Last edited by 2strokeforever on September 10th, 2010, 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
the 450 will have less power and will be harder to start, and will be heavier, but to make up for it it will require more maintenance.
4stroke=dead fish
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Post by dubious01 »

oops meant powerjet... not powervalve.... :?

I might wan to use the powerjet,..... and for sure the TPS from the kx250 carb, with a programmable timing curve so i can time it for the cr500 requirements.... that was one of the faults of my last bike was too much advance down low, and not enough up top to let it rev out for the port timing, I compromised with extra fuel, and it still had a very slight ping...
it would ping like 3 times going through a specific rpm, but otyherwise was good. It would have made way better power wit the right ignition timing and clean carburetion, without comnpromises for compression and rpm.

I just bought a second kx250 carb so my machinist can use one as a guinea pig to find the limits we can cut for the other one I will run.

as for the ride, everyone wins on a good days ride, no matter who is leading, what part of Vernon you live at? Our family had a place at parker cove when i was a kid. I got a freind that rides right out his back yard on the east hill right up into he bush and hits the powerline. There is some real tight fun riding between there and Noble canyon. I had a blast with my 500. The guys couldn't beleive i was riding a 500 up there
Last edited by dubious01 on September 10th, 2010, 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dubious01 »

I sell lithium batteries you know... motorcycle batteries, same as speedcell but 1/2 the price, would fit behind the number plate.
I can post pics next week when i am home for ya.

I have been selling them to the KTM boys, and ran it in my 505, and have them in my Vmax and zx14 streetbikes. 1/2 the size of a stock KTM battery, 1/4 the weight, and 2x's the power of a lead acid. never freeze, boil or leak.

will take a 10 amp car charger for 10 minutes and it fully charged, they are designed for 1000 full cycles, Ducati and Yamaha use them in total loss ignition systems, no alternator.... they power the fuel injectors, fuel pump, ecu, ignition coils, for like 45 minutes straight...
lithium iron batteries are the future...
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Post by 2strokeforever »

ill just get a stator,itl be cool enough real soon so i wont need it till spring and by then ill have a coil rectifier and regulator the battery is i off a cordless drill i used it because i had it laying around

ya i used to sleep over at my friends place on west shores and rode at avender pit, i live right by swan lake with excelent riding in my backyard but cant ride there because a bunch of idiots wrecked it for everyone by cutting fences and killing cows..... :evil:
I might wan to use the powerjet
, i think it would be easier to use a intelajet because it auto adjusts a bit, i have eric gorrs mortorcycle hand book and for most powerjet bikes he recomends unhooking it and rejet
but if you could get the power jet to be controled by an o2 sensor if your jetting was close id be perfect, dont know how well a o2 sensor would work with castor in the exhaust sys
the 450 will have less power and will be harder to start, and will be heavier, but to make up for it it will require more maintenance.
4stroke=dead fish
seanmx57
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Post by seanmx57 »

http://www.thunderproducts.com/dial_a_jet_techpaper.htm


Dial a jet is a lame version of the intaljet. It's not adjustable on the fly. They are able to compensate for about 2 jet sizes on the fly by turning the knob.
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Post by dubious01 »

I was planning to use intellijet,
I wanted the powerjet for the kx 250 carb as well beacuse unlike 97 honda that uses on the wfo pull, kx250 powerjet acts as accellerator pump.
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