99 cr 250 ignition
- 2strokeforever
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: November 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Vernon B.C Canada
99 cr 250 ignition
i got a 99 cr 250 ignition from kball xxx, thanks for the overnight shipping, and got her hooked up, heres what i think:
does NOT stall easier
i can actually steer through the woods, instead of bouncing in between trees
before the bike felt like i was carrings a 5l jerry can full on the back and front fender, now it feels like its gone
its easyer to start if i start it just after TDC (i always do it that way), but a bit harder if i just kick ( i never do that anyway) (yes i gaped the pulsar on both of them)
a little mellower off the bottom
doesnt feel like its making more power, but it is a lot faster to get it
tried stock timing and full advance, but i was on trails so i couldnt tell the difference between the two
i am using the 500 coil
the temps this weekend are way colder than the last so the mid/top power will be different because of that,
but i keep the pilot/ airscrew adjusted all the time so the easier starting was NOT from a jetting change
i noticed the raised trigger is around 1/4-1/8 inch off on the 250 compared to the 500, i think its throwing the timing out of wack, but then i dont know whats happening in the CDI so maybe it all balances out?
im guessing the 250 flywheel has half or less the inertia of the 500
the 250 CDI is 1/2 inch bigger than stock and the conectors are in the way so i had to "custom" mount it, i was in a rush and i know it looks like shit, but I had to get it done quick so i could ride
heres where the timing is off, but the CDI map maybe is difrent to compensate, but i dont think it is
the keyways are lined up as close as i can get them, but the 250 trigger is advanced compared to the 500, (dammit i shoulda tested full retarded instead of advance)
i used a mexican milling machine to machine the backing plate, it looks shitty but it works decent, i also used a o ring to center the backing plate, but it was too thick so i streched it over the chuck of my drill and used a file to adjust it to the right thickness. i will make a real spacer later out of aluminum or UHMW.
(a mexican milling machine is a die grinder bit in a cordless drill)
if you have a 99- 01 please tell me what works for you
ps i might be interested in selling my 3 month old stock setup (-the coil) for a $175canadian+shipping, or trading it for 03-07 250 setup, or better yet a pvl...(roosty)
does NOT stall easier
i can actually steer through the woods, instead of bouncing in between trees
before the bike felt like i was carrings a 5l jerry can full on the back and front fender, now it feels like its gone
its easyer to start if i start it just after TDC (i always do it that way), but a bit harder if i just kick ( i never do that anyway) (yes i gaped the pulsar on both of them)
a little mellower off the bottom
doesnt feel like its making more power, but it is a lot faster to get it
tried stock timing and full advance, but i was on trails so i couldnt tell the difference between the two
i am using the 500 coil
the temps this weekend are way colder than the last so the mid/top power will be different because of that,
but i keep the pilot/ airscrew adjusted all the time so the easier starting was NOT from a jetting change
i noticed the raised trigger is around 1/4-1/8 inch off on the 250 compared to the 500, i think its throwing the timing out of wack, but then i dont know whats happening in the CDI so maybe it all balances out?
im guessing the 250 flywheel has half or less the inertia of the 500
the 250 CDI is 1/2 inch bigger than stock and the conectors are in the way so i had to "custom" mount it, i was in a rush and i know it looks like shit, but I had to get it done quick so i could ride
heres where the timing is off, but the CDI map maybe is difrent to compensate, but i dont think it is
the keyways are lined up as close as i can get them, but the 250 trigger is advanced compared to the 500, (dammit i shoulda tested full retarded instead of advance)
i used a mexican milling machine to machine the backing plate, it looks shitty but it works decent, i also used a o ring to center the backing plate, but it was too thick so i streched it over the chuck of my drill and used a file to adjust it to the right thickness. i will make a real spacer later out of aluminum or UHMW.
(a mexican milling machine is a die grinder bit in a cordless drill)
if you have a 99- 01 please tell me what works for you
ps i might be interested in selling my 3 month old stock setup (-the coil) for a $175canadian+shipping, or trading it for 03-07 250 setup, or better yet a pvl...(roosty)
the 450 will have less power and will be harder to start, and will be heavier, but to make up for it it will require more maintenance.
4stroke=dead fish
4stroke=dead fish
- asteroid500
- Posts: 1047
- Joined: January 5th, 2009, 1:29 am
- Location: Australia Melbourne
hey 2strk4eva...could you post your findings in my tread...Yours is informitive & not all piss & wind but tried & tested...cheers Asteroid
http://www.bannedcr500riders.com/board/ ... php?t=8044
http://www.bannedcr500riders.com/board/ ... php?t=8044
"not speeding officer".....qualifying
CR250 97
CR500 AF 99 (in progress)
CR500 AF CR G-4
CR500 1985 true legend
RGV250 96 X2
GSXR600 07 TRACK BIKE
VH Commadore cup car (race)
CR250 97
CR500 AF 99 (in progress)
CR500 AF CR G-4
CR500 1985 true legend
RGV250 96 X2
GSXR600 07 TRACK BIKE
VH Commadore cup car (race)
- 2strokeforever
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: November 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Vernon B.C Canada
- 2strokeforever
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: November 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Vernon B.C Canada
rode some more today and noticed my bike idled a lot lower without stalling compared to the 500 setup and practiced the endurox track and the 250 setup is harder to stall and the only thing i like better about the 500 setup is sometimes the heavy flywheel is nice for big logs to rev up and dump the clutch, and let the flywheel launch me over, like a trials rider does
but overall the 250 is way better
right now im running full retarded, because it looks like thats how it should be? and id rather not ping
still cant figure whether it has more or less power because it went from burning hot outside to cold in 1 week so my jetting is probably a little lean, dont have time to check though, gotta ride, and im on trails getting for the race so its not under enough load to burn down by being a little off
but ill get it dialed next weekend
but overall the 250 is way better
right now im running full retarded, because it looks like thats how it should be? and id rather not ping
still cant figure whether it has more or less power because it went from burning hot outside to cold in 1 week so my jetting is probably a little lean, dont have time to check though, gotta ride, and im on trails getting for the race so its not under enough load to burn down by being a little off
but ill get it dialed next weekend
the 450 will have less power and will be harder to start, and will be heavier, but to make up for it it will require more maintenance.
4stroke=dead fish
4stroke=dead fish
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
I'm running a 99 with a vortex, I'm going to seperate the flywheel and reclock about a 1\4 inch see what happens. The 93 flywheel is very close to the stock 500. I don't know why the 99s pick up is closer to the keyway. Right now you realy have to retard it to make it work. By reclocking the pick up, you shouldn't have to retard the stator plate so much. The best so far has been a 93 with vortex, but being anolog it won't work. I'm trying to get the 99 to work as good as the 93. Will see if reclocking the pick up helps. I'm going to cut the ribbits out then set it in water up to the top and tig it, the water will keep it cool so there won't be any interference with the magnetic field
- 2strokeforever
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: November 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Vernon B.C Canada
will i get better power if i retard it even more than full retarded at the stator without grinding the holes longer, and if you find out exactly how much its off could you let me know???
i also read the 250 cdi is 2.5 degrees more retarded over the 500
you could install it without the woodruff key like the pvl just to test different timings before you get happy with the welderI'm going to seperate the flywheel and reclock about a 1\4 inch see what happens
i also read the 250 cdi is 2.5 degrees more retarded over the 500
the 450 will have less power and will be harder to start, and will be heavier, but to make up for it it will require more maintenance.
4stroke=dead fish
4stroke=dead fish
- eyesky2002
- Posts: 492
- Joined: October 30th, 2007, 8:31 am
- Location: SW Iowa
- Contact:
Little confused.... Because mine with the 99 250 ignition runs like a ragging jaguar from hell with the timing set dead on the tab, retarding or advancing makes it run crappy I am running a 114/91 50/50mix, so no pinging
"When your riding your living... Everything else is just waiting!"
MXMotoworx.com
2003 Honda CR500AF
MXMotoworx.com
2003 Honda CR500AF
- eyesky2002
- Posts: 492
- Joined: October 30th, 2007, 8:31 am
- Location: SW Iowa
- Contact:
I am hoping he meant he was going to adjust the stator, hopefully not weld his flywheel on2strokeforever wrote:will i get better power if i retard it even more than full retarded at the stator without grinding the holes longer, and if you find out exactly how much its off could you let me know???you could install it without the woodruff key like the pvl just to test different timings before you get happy with the welderI'm going to seperate the flywheel and reclock about a 1\4 inch see what happens
i also read the 250 cdi is 2.5 degrees more retarded over the 500
I have heard 10 degrees advanced, wait no retarded, no wait 2.5 degrees
Sad truth there is no real answer, everybody seems to have a different story even with in the same year.
"When your riding your living... Everything else is just waiting!"
MXMotoworx.com
2003 Honda CR500AF
MXMotoworx.com
2003 Honda CR500AF
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
I'v seperated the the fly wheel before, it's easy, just when rewelding it, it almost has to be submerged to keep the heat down. I have spent alot of time trying different ign, I have done 85,86,03, 99. I have a pretty good idea how each one feels. The best set up and worth the money is going with a vortex if you have a didgital ign.
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
I had 1 map thats stock cr500, 2 of them are cr250 maps, of the cr250 mapping 1 has even more advance than the other, the rest are a mix of traction and control. I call the cr250 maps my gp maps. In 500 setting you hold it wide open and run through the gears, when you run out of rpm hit the switch for a 250 map and take off again like you had another gear. Playing with the different maps there are faster maps for the moto than the 250 maping, for a fast gp like glen helan with elevation changes the cr250 map works best. If the track was just water and it's hard pack there is a mode or two that anyone would be faster using no matter what level of rider they are.
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
It seems that the pick up bar and its location play a part in where you set the timing. Also of course the cdi box it self, according to mike a mt racing [Vortex] the 99 box is a stand alone ign. And I believe it's just not the plugs are different than say a 97, 96, 01. The biggest difference in where you set your timing weather advanced or retarded is the condition of the cylinder and the port timing. Small differences there make big differences when it comes to where you set it. The seat of your pants and a stopwatch to finsh it off
am i wrong is the keyway on the crank top dead center thats the relation between the 2 setups we set ours so that the 250 ignition was in the same point as the 500 ignition asteroids ignition thread has all the photos and is exactly how we set ours up a simple slot in the plate is all it needs also we found that even with the timing wrong it started with a half hearted kick and most of the time on the first one but it ran hot and was flat with no power
and bob stickied asteroids thread it has all the photos of the stator plates and info
and bob stickied asteroids thread it has all the photos of the stator plates and info
only posties ride 4 stroke hondas
goldfields sheet metal fabrication
98 yzfr1
05 crf 500 race tech goldies
2010 rmz 500af
01 banshee
goldfields sheet metal fabrication
98 yzfr1
05 crf 500 race tech goldies
2010 rmz 500af
01 banshee
- 2strokeforever
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: November 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Vernon B.C Canada
- 2strokeforever
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: November 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Vernon B.C Canada
howd the 03 work???27maverick wrote:
I have spent alot of time trying different ign, I have done 85,86,03, 99,
the rc valve got me thinking happy thoughts, about the 500
the 450 will have less power and will be harder to start, and will be heavier, but to make up for it it will require more maintenance.
4stroke=dead fish
4stroke=dead fish
-
- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
- 2strokeforever
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: November 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Vernon B.C Canada
after a lot of messing i figured out that if you set the crank at TDC youll see a line on your flywheel and a line on the stator and a point casted into the case like here but with a flywheel(asteroids picture)
asteroid500 wrote
so when we look at rsss396 mapping we see
assuming the 99 map is close to the same as the 2000(BTW does anyone have the 99 map???) that would mean i need to advance 4 degrees to get the same max timing
keep in mind i eyeballed everything so its not perfect, but the way i did it i can guarantee its within a few degrees, because i didnt move the crank
i was running full retarded so now im at stock and ill see how it works on the weekend to see if my logic makes sense, or to see if i just confused myself even more
asteroid500 wrote
well i put the original 500 ignition and flywheel on and put it at TDC and all the lines lined up, there supposed too. k now for the 250 WITHOUT MOVING THE CRANK i took the 500 off and put the 250 setup on at original timing and what do you know all the lines lined up, even though the pickup was roughly 3-4 mm advanced THE TIMING MARKS LINED UP, so that means the 250 mapping compensates for the pickup being in a different spotSo youd need to find TDC via the spark plug hole then adjust your stator plate so that the centere of your pick up point on your fly wheel is cental to the stator pick up point.
Doing this will then give you a "STATIC" TDC from were you my choose to time to you OWN or engine builders requirements.
so when we look at rsss396 mapping we see
All flywheels/stator combos were mocked up on a motor and degreed and marked with true TDC.
A solid stationary timing pointer was mounted on the stator off the pickup coil screw.
The degreed TDC mark is aligned with this tab so you can time the motor while looking down at the flywheel instead of the bottom like the factory did.
assuming the 99 map is close to the same as the 2000(BTW does anyone have the 99 map???) that would mean i need to advance 4 degrees to get the same max timing
keep in mind i eyeballed everything so its not perfect, but the way i did it i can guarantee its within a few degrees, because i didnt move the crank
i was running full retarded so now im at stock and ill see how it works on the weekend to see if my logic makes sense, or to see if i just confused myself even more
the 450 will have less power and will be harder to start, and will be heavier, but to make up for it it will require more maintenance.
4stroke=dead fish
4stroke=dead fish