CR 500 AF for MX

[2strokeforever]

rekluse... dude grow a pair
(bearoso this dosent apply to you)

A bike without a clutch is like a girl with no tits.

X500
why not get a e start four stroke, 4x4 power steering quad where you dont have any gears while your at it

Anyone who says a 250 ignition is a good idea for an MX or Trail bike is on CRACK!

id rather have less gyro and use the clutch than not have my bike lean over properly

mick said he liked his 250 ign for MX and trails... i guess he knows how to turn the throttle properly and use the clutch... he must be on crack

[bearorso]

I've used the rekluses for 7 years now - the reason was so I could have a LHRB, my leg injuries mean I can't use a rear brake well.

I've always had engine braking the way I set my clutches up , but I set them to have zero slip, to the point I lose at lot of the anti stall feature - I'm always on the fine line of loosing anti stall completely ( I use a variety of main pre-load spacers to tune the clutch , as Sean said , I use all 27 balls in TC) and juggle the pre-load spacers and the inner springs to suit my needs.

I still use my clutch lever , and have made a special brake lever and clutch lever/perch so I can use both levers together, any time, with no finger trapping or other problems at all (check the avatar) . You make your bike fit your needs. I feel for those who can't do that for themselves - it makes all the difference.

Bobs right with the clutch thing ( perhaps not in the way he intended it, re comments about pstoffers). David Bailey , in articles for Dirt Bike magazine eons ago, said he used the clutch for speed control more than the throttle on the 500 - he said it was easier to keep 1 finger on the lever and pull it in to reduce acceleration than try to turn the throttle forward. And it reduced brake stalling - even the best blokes would have problems with that.

G2s are a good idea, though I've re-welded the cams to get the profile I want for my use. One of the old secrets a few of us kept to ourselves when I raced 500s in MX, reasonably seriously, was to use a throttle off the early XR200 2 valve pro links - they had a snail cam throttle tube that pretty much provided the action of the middle set up G2 cam , but you got full throttle out of it (my G2 mid and slowest action cams would not give full throttle - but that problem would have been sorted out , I think). Now they come with nylon bushes in them (another thing I had to add to my early model G2) , they are a good product that gives you options. Motion Pro might have a 2t adjustable throttle, but I've only noticed the 4t one. Magura had the 314 throttle, that had 2 cable positions on the throttle tube, to the best of my recollection.

What one person loves, the other might hate. There's no all around set up solutions. Making your bike suit You is what's important.

[MojoScojo]

I still use my clutch lever , and have made a special brake lever and clutch lever/perch so I can use both levers together, any time, with no finger trapping or other problems at all (check the avatar) . You make your bike fit your needs.

That is pretty bitchin. Very cool.

[M.F.D.B.]

rekluse... dude grow a pair
(bearoso this dosent apply to you)

Dude seriously? hahahaha Lets see some of your vids and see how badass you are...

why not get a e start four stroke, 4x4 power steering quad where you dont have any gears while your at it

If I did that I would have to move to Canada...

id rather have less gyro and use the clutch than not have my bike lean over properly

No 500 is going to "lean over properly" unless you shave about 50 pounds off the crank. And your ass sure as hell isnt good enough to notice the "gyro" increase from a Rekluse... hahahaha

mick said he liked his 250 ign for MX and trails... i guess he knows how to turn the throttle properly and use the clutch... he must be on crack

Mic also said sound supressors are nothing more than a novelty and is a self proclaimed "Ranger"...Heres a photo according to him doesnt exist unless its on XBOX...idiot...

[dannygraves]

I race in NM/Colorado with about 400 riders... not a single auto clutch

There are different types of desert racing, there is the 100mph flat smooth desert riding (yyyaaawwwnnn) and there is what people around here race, I have met and ridden with the guys MFDB is talking about and they are pro racers who win races and they all have rekluse clutches, and they all whoop my ass all over the nasty ST with nasty rock shelves and ruts while being off camber right before a half mile long section of SX sized whoops... I also see my fair share of guys at the MX track running them. I would have one if I didn't just spend all of my money buying a house.

as far as 500 for mx... BONE FUCKING STOCK! thats right leave it the hell alone and maybe try a mellower throttle tube. As much as all of us tuners out there like to believe otherwise, those guys at honda know what they are doing and that motor was designed for MX. they intentionally tuned in a soft spot right off idle which improved lap times. That same softspot is what every mod, every badass carb, reed block, ignition, porting, etc etc is so well known for aleviating but that is exactly what will make it tame enough for MX.

[M.F.D.B.]

My CR250R is stock minus a PWK carb conversion and Bills pipe. The biggest jump at SVMX is around 70-80 ft. and I can easily over jump it in 4th gear. Moral of the story is a slow ass MX novice like me on a "measly" stock 250 can jump 80 ft. no problem. So unless you are going to be trying for distance records a stock 500 is way more power than you will ever need to clear jumps. And just in case you havnt heard, ill tell you the biggest secret you will ever need to hear. MX races are won in the CORNERS and power mods aint going to do SHIT for your corner speed...

Spend your money on suspension and anything that will improve your corner velocity. I personally sprung and valved my 250 (purchased purely as a MX only bike) after the first ride. I run the lightest tubes and bead locks I can find and MX51's are 2 pounds lighter than Maxxis BTW. I run a plastic glide plate, no hand guards, no frame guards nothing that will increase sprung or unsprung weight and did everything (cost effectively) to reduce the wheel weight as possible.

Adding power to a 500 destined for MX is like polishing and chrome. A complete waste of money...

[gregrobo]

My CR250R is stock minus a PWK carb conversion and Bills pipe. The biggest jump at SVMX is around 70-80 ft. and I can easily over jump it in 4th gear. Moral of the story is a slow ass MX novice like me on a "measly" stock 250 can jump 80 ft. no problem. So unless you are going to be trying for distance records a stock 500 is way more power than you will ever need to clear jumps. And just in case you havnt heard, ill tell you the biggest secret you will ever need to hear. MX races are won in the CORNERS and power mods aint going to do SHIT for your corner speed...

Spend your money on suspension and anything that will improve your corner velocity. I personally sprung and valved my 250 (purchased purely as a MX only bike) after the first ride. I run the lightest tubes and bead locks I can find and MX51's are 2 pounds lighter than Maxxis BTW. I run a plastic glide plate, no hand guards, no frame guards nothing that will increase sprung or unsprung weight and did everything (cost effectively) to reduce the wheel weight as possible.

Adding power to a 500 destined for MX is like polishing and chrome. A complete waste of money...

well said

[2strokeforever]

2strokeforever wrote:

id rather have less gyro and use the clutch than not have my bike lean over properly

No 500 is going to "lean over properly" unless you shave about 50 pounds off the crank. And your ass sure as hell isnt good enough to notice the "gyro" increase from a Rekluse... hahahaha

i wasnt saying theres a gyro increase from the rekluse im saying a skilled rider would rather have a lighter flywheel, even if he has to use the clutch more because of it

Dude seriously? hahahaha Lets see some of your vids and see how badass you are...

soon as i get a video camera

i have never met ANYONE (ever) who will even try the hills/cliffs i go up... i do live in canada tho

when i come to hoonfest i look forward to embarrassing you and your rekluse, in the tighest ST you will even try

and i will piss myself when you fall over and stall your recluse bike

[bearorso]

"as far as 500 for mx... BONE FUCKING STOCK! thats right leave it the hell alone and maybe try a mellower throttle tube. As much as all of us tuners out there like to believe otherwise, those guys at honda know what they are doing and that motor was designed for MX. they intentionally tuned in a soft spot right off idle which improved lap times. That same softspot is what every mod, every badass carb, reed block, ignition, porting, etc etc is so well known for aleviating but that is exactly what will make it tame enough for MX".[/quote]

Holy Shit DG!

And I'd always thought you were , perhaps, one of those blokes who just had to have more and more power, as a 500 was just too damned slow.............

MX is about usable power - now those Hill Climbers , Dune Loonies and Desert Rats, I can (sort of) understand them going ballistic, but MX and Enduro? Just set up your suspension, make sure your bike is running well, good tyres etc and off you go. I think the only reason that I changed the pipe when I was young and flinging myself around MX tracks was because I had trashed the std one (somewhere, I know I've got 2 PC pipes hanging up that I'd like to find, just to sell off). Now, all I do, is make my bike suit me, and me only. Mind you, that amounts to a hell of a lot of set up nowadays

[seanmx57]

For my tastes, the stock mill is a bit weak for MX unless the track is tight and you can't get into 4'th. Getting a Eric Gorr "mo betta" port job helped pick things up with out messing up the "soft spot" DG is talking about.

Of course I'm of the opinion that one should not have to clutch a 500 stroke on a MX track to get more power on corner exits. The faster tracks I ride at, which are very similar to Unadilla just not as nice, I had to work the clutch pretty hard on a stock motor to get decent pull coming outta corners especially in 4'th. Th EG port job almost cured it. The powernow carb insert made it so I could have all the power I wanted in any gear with 14/51 by twisting the wrist. I did notice I had to stay in very good shape though or the stock motor was just as good for sure. I'm pretty aggressive on a MX track.

I can certainly run MX without a rekluse. I'm just faster, smoother and less tires with it.

MFDB you didn't mention running tubliss wheel setups........... ?? they save weight and provide MORE traction along with increasing tire life

I have yet to try a stock pipe or a fatty for MX. I like the FMF gnarly quite well on all but the fastest tracks, they get the PC pipe.

[gregrobo]

"as far as 500 for mx... BONE FUCKING STOCK! thats right leave it the hell alone and maybe try a mellower throttle tube. As much as all of us tuners out there like to believe otherwise, those guys at honda know what they are doing and that motor was designed for MX. they intentionally tuned in a soft spot right off idle which improved lap times. That same softspot is what every mod, every badass carb, reed block, ignition, porting, etc etc is so well known for aleviating but that is exactly what will make it tame enough for MX".

Holy Shit DG!

And I'd always thought you were , perhaps, one of those blokes who just had to have more and more power, as a 500 was just too damned slow.............

MX is about usable power - now those Hill Climbers and Dune Loonies, I can (sort of) understand them going ballistic, but MX and Enduro? Just set up your suspension,

i ride mx and enduro with the a stock setup, our tracks are alot different than the u.s tracks ours shorter and tighter but i still run 14/47 and i pull 4th gear around the track and 3rd off the start im not hard on the clutch since i bought the road bike i still have enough horsepower to smoke the 450s
in saying that i have the suspension balanced and its plush in the bush and absorbs everything on the track and i want a rekluse, just have to sweet talk a american brother to hook me up i dont like the aussie price

and our other bike has the 250 ignition with a vortex x10 but i dont like the 01 frame

[bearorso]

For a second there I thought I'd somehow used Gregrobo's log in to post - I can't seem to even use the quote function properly.

Gregrobo - I reckon the Revloc Dyna Ring might be the go - use an OTF clutch lever, or make yourself a 'flip lever' cable adjuster for instant bump start engagement, and you would get rid of one of the Rekluse/ other Auto clutch bug bears of loosing bump start. Cheaper too, but we've got a OZ distributor now in Wollongong and they are listed at $695.00 , last I saw. As you said, perhaps a fellow rider here could obtain one for you. USPS (Not UPS - rip offs) priority airmail would be pretty good on a package that shouldn't be very big, like a Dyna Ring.
I get USPS things in about 3/4/5 days, usually. Sent on their Friday, usually gets here my Monday or Tuesday. Although you're in the middle of 'where the hell am I?', so it might take a few extra days for the camels to bring it to you.

Sean - you know you're going to have a shitload of people harassing you for your 'spare' pipes now. You're done for sport.

One day I'd love to try out a Tubliss set up - Ballards are just across the river from me so I might be able to try a spare from his team one day, but as usual, they sell for mega bucks. With the rear I'll just eventually get a trials rim - Gas Gas tubless rims are 2.15 and 32 spokes, and my spare wheel needs a rim to replace the 89 vintage one on it now. I run tubless Michelin rear Trials tyres now, pretty much all the time, so that's the cheapest option for me. Have you seen the European version of the Tubliss? You have to use a needle through the side of the tyre to pump it up , then seal it - farrrrrk - Tubliss must have really got a good patent listing on their set up.

[seanmx57]

I'm testing pipes for MX, and ST. There is more on the floor .

Been buying up stockers and fattys mostly. when I crush em I just toss em in the fix pile.

Nuetec.com is th tubliss website. I talk to Jeff at nuetec regularly, he's the patent holder. I've been trying to get a tubliss for a 2.5 rim 18 or 19, preferably both for a couple years now. Every time I talk to him he's like In 6 months when we get caught up with production we are gonna get on it. Last week he said he was behind 20,000 units and for the first time didn't say he could do it in 6 months, he said he felt like a DICK for saying that to everybody for the last couple years and he's realizing that they are not able to keep up with demand on the current units they build. 2.5 rims are not normal for 99% of the bike's buying parts these days. I hate to, but I'm gonna have to break down and run a maxxis on my 2.5 rear. They are boat anchors but the traction is supposed to be very very good with a tublis cause of the stiff sidewalls allowing for low 8 PSI. The reason the maxxis works is the bead is around 12 ~ 13 mm thick which makes the inside of the tire bead to bead distance the same as a normal tire on a 2.15 rim.

[M.F.D.B.]

i wasnt saying theres a gyro increase from the rekluse im saying a skilled rider would rather have a lighter flywheel, even if he has to use the clutch more because of it

Sounds like a retraction to me...

i have never met ANYONE (ever) who will even try the hills/cliffs i go up...

Incredibly unlikley, but possible. But talking the trash you are talking you better be fuggin AMA muthafuckin PRO licensed and Best In the Desert top 3 or BETTER and WORKS PRO...

i do live in canada tho

I rest my case...

when i come to hoonfest i look forward to embarrassing you and your rekluse, in the tighest ST you will even try

There are Hoons in AZ that will be very impressed with your amazing Jesus Christ worthy skills, im sure...

i will piss myself when you fall over and stall your recluse bike

What is a recluse?

[M.F.D.B.]

well said

Thanks...

MFDB you didn't mention running tubliss wheel setups........... ?? they save weight and provide MORE traction along with increasing tire life

Thats because they are unproven in my opinion. Many local Best in the Desert, WORKS, etc. guys/gals I know have been trying them with mixed results. Also, I doubt there is much of a weight savings over my current setup, at least not when you also compare the huge initial investment.

i want a rekluse, just have to sweet talk a american brother to hook me up i dont like the aussie price

We unofficially (not supposed to ship outside US) ship Rekluse to Austrailia literally WEEKLY...

USPS (Not UPS - rip offs) priority airmail would be pretty good on a package that shouldn't be very big, like a Dyna Ring.

USPS Expressmail or Priority mail is the most common. UPS and FedEx charge "brokerage fees" since they have a rush service through Aussie Customs. Dyna Ring $360+45 (on average to Aussies) shipping.

I'm gonna have to break down and run a maxxis on my 2.5 rear. They are boat anchors but the traction is supposed to be very very good with a tublis cause of the stiff sidewalls allowing for low 8 PSI.

MX-51's are over 2 pounds lighter. The extra weight of the less performing tire (Maxxis) with the lighter tubliss will not benefit you in the end when you compare to a lighter tire with a 1 pound (or so) standard tube.

[nmdesertrider]

The tubliss sytem seems to be touch and go, some people they last and others keep having problems.

I've found that the best thing is to keep new tires on your bike if you don't want a flat. They wear out quickly and the sidewalls get soft- particularity if you run them flat for any amount of time- just replace them cause they will keep going flat.

[seanmx57]

I would NEVER run a thin style tube, just asking for problems.

Sure the tire is 2+ lb's heavier, I'm losing quite a bit ditching the heavy duty tube. Traction is the name of the game. Sand would not be a good test, most any other terrain dirt related should be the ticket.

$70 dealer cost is expensive ??? CR5's eat rear tires pretty quick with a lot of rubber, spend a little now, save a lot over the years.

[nmdesertrider]

Running a heavy duty tube just makes it heat up worse and the tire deteriorates more rapidly. Same thing with running low pressure.....

Lots of trade offs here between traction, weight and tire life.

[M.F.D.B.]

I would NEVER run a thin style tube, just asking for problems.

Havnt had any yet and ive flat landed plenty of times. My buddy who races WORKS and is waayyyyyy faster than I am and no flats...

Sure the tire is 2+ lb's heavier, I'm losing quite a bit ditching the heavy duty tube.

A Ultra Heavy (4mm Bridgestone) is only a couple pounds...

Traction is the name of the game. Sand would not be a good test, most any other terrain dirt related should be the ticket.

Un-sprung weight reduction is more valuable for traction than a few PSI in my opinion...

$70 dealer cost is expensive ??? CR5's eat rear tires pretty quick with a lot of rubber, spend a little now, save a lot over the years.

MX-51's are $5 cheaper than Maxxis Maxxcross IT and last just as long but provide superior traction, in my opinion...

[M.F.D.B.]

Running a heavy duty tube just makes it heat up worse and the tire deteriorates more rapidly. Same thing with running low pressure.....

Lots of trade offs here between traction, weight and tire life.

I use baby powder and have a couple UHD tubes that are well over 3 years old and you can still see the lettering on them. I run low pressures, often less than 10 psi...

[eyesky2002]

Running a heavy duty tube just makes it heat up worse and the tire deteriorates more rapidly. Same thing with running low pressure.....

Lots of trade offs here between traction, weight and tire life.

I use baby powder and have a couple UHD tubes that are well over 3 years old and you can still see the lettering on them. I run low pressures, often less than 10 psi...

X2 second set of tires, same tubes.

I am running the 14/48 sprockets... Is there any advantage or disadvantage between going 13/48 or 14/51? Both are almost the same ratio 3.69 / 3.64, just going up to the 51 would require a longer chain.

[cmotodad]

The 14/51 is supposed to change the chain torque? Not sure if i am good enough to notice. I like the 1/2 tooth lower gearing on the 450

[bearorso]

The 14/51 is supposed to change the chain torque? Not sure if i am good enough to notice. I like the 1/2 tooth lower gearing on the 450

Your right on both counts (not knocking your skill level - suspension and design have been a large part of my working life, and I'd be bloody hard pressed to feel the difference nowadays).

I use 14/51, because I don't like using 13s, I find they wear too quickly in my riding conditions, and wear the chain slider (when I use one - I run my own version of an AMP Torque Eliminator at the moment) quickly. And wear the chain quicker than bigger sprocket (s). I'd like to try 15/52 or 53 to get the gearing I want to try. And lower the wear rate further. I'd kill for the slightly wider spread of the HRC / Madman Eng. gear box, that would be the ducks nuts for my use.

Others don't want the extra weight of the bigger sprockets and extra chain links.

It's swings and roundabouts - to each , their preference - either approach has it's advantages / disadvantages.

[cmotodad]

Will a 15 tooth countershaft sprocket fit on an AF bike? Seems like the 14 is as close as possible.

[britincali]

Will a 15 tooth countershaft sprocket fit on an AF bike? .

Yes