Well, the new CRF chassis 500 rides horrible for me. Ive been slowly adjusting the suspension, but am fairly unsure what I am doing.
The bike threw me off today, I hit an exceptionally huge whoop. I knew I was fucked as soon as I saw the depth of it. It bucked me forwards and up to the point that I nearly came crashing down headfirst onto the front fender. The only thing that saved me was gassing it to pull the bike back under me. When I came back onto the seat, I was on one of my knees, trying to get back onto the seat, but it wasnt happening. I let the bike go, and bailed so I didnt get a bike on top of me, which was where I was headed in a hurry.
It really likes to buck hard on whoops, and Ive gotten it a bit better, but Ive been making very small adjustments to the suspension in fear of making it worse.
Whole point of this thread, I suppose is to get suspension tuning tips. I want to learn how to dick with the clickers, and not be afraid of them. My 250 rides like a dream. Its nice and plush in the woods, but it glides over whoops and jumps at high speeds and rarely bottoms out. This CRF chassis bounces all over the place, and its flat out dangerous on whoops right now. Front end and rear end go all over the place, and I dont like it much. I never know how it will react to bumps where on my 250, I know exactly how it will react to just about everything I come across and can then adjust my stance accordingly
Suspension tips
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NightBiker07
- Posts: 1942
- Joined: April 16th, 2008, 8:59 pm
- Location: USA
Suspension tips
2000 CR250, pipe, filter, Vforce
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
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2strokeforever
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: November 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Vernon B.C Canada
i dont have a clue about suspension but i had the same problem of my bike being "flat out dangerous on whoops"
make sure the suspension bearings are in new condition and well greased
set sag right too 100mm with you standing on the pegs, 30ish with you off the bike
dont be afraid to mess with the clickers, the hsc seemed to make the most difrence, you cant make it any worse than it aready is, right?
all this really helped my bike
had it revalved too, still kicked till i got everything above figured out, now it works pretty good
make sure the suspension bearings are in new condition and well greased
set sag right too 100mm with you standing on the pegs, 30ish with you off the bike
dont be afraid to mess with the clickers, the hsc seemed to make the most difrence, you cant make it any worse than it aready is, right?
all this really helped my bike
had it revalved too, still kicked till i got everything above figured out, now it works pretty good
the 450 will have less power and will be harder to start, and will be heavier, but to make up for it it will require more maintenance.
4stroke=dead fish
4stroke=dead fish
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NightBiker07
- Posts: 1942
- Joined: April 16th, 2008, 8:59 pm
- Location: USA
suspension bearings are all clean, tight, and well greased. did it while i did the frame work and had the bike in pieces2strokeforever wrote:i dont have a clue about suspension but i had the same problem of my bike being "flat out dangerous on whoops"
make sure the suspension bearings are in new condition and well greased
set sag right too 100mm with you standing on the pegs, 30ish with you off the bike
dont be afraid to mess with the clickers, the hsc seemed to make the most difrence, you cant make it any worse than it aready is, right?
all this really helped my bike
had it revalved too, still kicked till i got everything above figured out, now it works pretty good
2000 CR250, pipe, filter, Vforce
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
-
scooter5002
- Posts: 425
- Joined: July 31st, 2010, 5:22 am
- Location: Tillsonburg On
How heavy are you, and is the bike valved for your weight?
Are you sure you have the right springs, and as mentioned, is the sag right?
Those two questions are the ones you really need answers to. What year CRF is it? The 09s and up have inherent issues to begin with that need to be addressed in the chassis and suspension dept.
The High Speed Adjuster controls your bike sag to a certain extent, as well as action through the braking chatter, acceleration bumps and short stuttery whoops. The Low Speed controls big whoops, G-out landings and jump face take-off compression. Rebound has a huge effect too. Best thing to do is adjust ONE thing at a time to see if you are going in the right direction. If you aren't, you know what to change back. Test through the sections of the track that are giving you problems. Did your forks collapse in that near death experience or was it shock? Both? Work on both ends, again, one adjustment at a time at one end. Don't be afraid to change things, even if you are happy. If you ride different tracks, keep a log of settings for each one. I ride huge sandy whooped out tracks, Carlsbad blue groove hardpack and loose loam. I run different settings at each one. If I tried to run my sand settings on square edged hardpack, it would break my wrists. Experiment.
Are you sure you have the right springs, and as mentioned, is the sag right?
Those two questions are the ones you really need answers to. What year CRF is it? The 09s and up have inherent issues to begin with that need to be addressed in the chassis and suspension dept.
The High Speed Adjuster controls your bike sag to a certain extent, as well as action through the braking chatter, acceleration bumps and short stuttery whoops. The Low Speed controls big whoops, G-out landings and jump face take-off compression. Rebound has a huge effect too. Best thing to do is adjust ONE thing at a time to see if you are going in the right direction. If you aren't, you know what to change back. Test through the sections of the track that are giving you problems. Did your forks collapse in that near death experience or was it shock? Both? Work on both ends, again, one adjustment at a time at one end. Don't be afraid to change things, even if you are happy. If you ride different tracks, keep a log of settings for each one. I ride huge sandy whooped out tracks, Carlsbad blue groove hardpack and loose loam. I run different settings at each one. If I tried to run my sand settings on square edged hardpack, it would break my wrists. Experiment.
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NightBiker07
- Posts: 1942
- Joined: April 16th, 2008, 8:59 pm
- Location: USA
It was definitely the rear that caused the buck, but the front isnt right wither, it bounces all over the place.scooter5002 wrote:How heavy are you, and is the bike valved for your weight?
Are you sure you have the right springs, and as mentioned, is the sag right?
Those two questions are the ones you really need answers to. What year CRF is it? The 09s and up have inherent issues to begin with that need to be addressed in the chassis and suspension dept.
The High Speed Adjuster controls your bike sag to a certain extent, as well as action through the braking chatter, acceleration bumps and short stuttery whoops. The Low Speed controls big whoops, G-out landings and jump face take-off compression. Rebound has a huge effect too. Best thing to do is adjust ONE thing at a time to see if you are going in the right direction. If you aren't, you know what to change back. Test through the sections of the track that are giving you problems. Did your forks collapse in that near death experience or was it shock? Both? Work on both ends, again, one adjustment at a time at one end. Don't be afraid to change things, even if you are happy. If you ride different tracks, keep a log of settings for each one. I ride huge sandy whooped out tracks, Carlsbad blue groove hardpack and loose loam. I run different settings at each one. If I tried to run my sand settings on square edged hardpack, it would break my wrists. Experiment.
its an 02 chassis. I dont know if the rear spring bottomed out, but I hit a big whoop, and the second was bigger, which is where it bucked.
I have my 250 set up perfect for me. I can ride fast on any terrain I have come across, and it translates from track to track well. After I got it set up, I never touched it again until yesterday. The spring is getting a little soft, I spun the spanner nut down some to tighten it up a little. I'll be playing with the clicker this weekend, just to make sure the extra spring tension didnt do anything funny to the way it handles. Granted I am not riding at such a level that adjusting clickers as/per track conditions would make me faster as far as I can tell, I never think "if only my bike would do this better".But I am not slow either.
2000 CR250, pipe, filter, Vforce
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
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scooter5002
- Posts: 425
- Joined: July 31st, 2010, 5:22 am
- Location: Tillsonburg On
Don't discount the fact that there may be something wrong with the suspension. How old is the oil? If the fork oil is trashed, it will let the forks collapse and after a second whoop like you are describing, the front end is done and the rear end completely unloads, doing exactly what you experienced. Same for the shock. Bad oil, no control of the flow, bike is uncontrollable. I have an 04, so basically same bike. I noticed my forks were off, so I serviced them. Turns out theres a small piston in the cap that went south. So I was basically riding on one forks compression. At 265 lbs and a gnarly whooped sand track, you can imagine the experience I went through. Just figured I had to hang on tighter an fuckin' BULLDOG it! Lol Good luck. Look at something mechanical, it may not be just clickers.
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NightBiker07
- Posts: 1942
- Joined: April 16th, 2008, 8:59 pm
- Location: USA
I need to get a service manual. the right fork leaks just a tiny bit, the seals/sliders are probably due for attention. I may send them out to get done this winter. The front forks definitely arent completely collapsing, I wasnt getting the clean wipe even halfway down the fork.scooter5002 wrote:Don't discount the fact that there may be something wrong with the suspension. How old is the oil? If the fork oil is trashed, it will let the forks collapse and after a second whoop like you are describing, the front end is done and the rear end completely unloads, doing exactly what you experienced. Same for the shock. Bad oil, no control of the flow, bike is uncontrollable. I have an 04, so basically same bike. I noticed my forks were off, so I serviced them. Turns out theres a small piston in the cap that went south. So I was basically riding on one forks compression. At 265 lbs and a gnarly whooped sand track, you can imagine the experience I went through. Just figured I had to hang on tighter an fuckin' BULLDOG it! Lol Good luck. Look at something mechanical, it may not be just clickers.
The chassis definitely appears to be low hour, the rear suspension linkages are all very tight (as in bearings, everything is free moving), the wheel bearings are all tight, and the bike just doesnt have a lot of war wounds on it. But if servicing the clickers doesnt solve my issues, I will definitely start looking at suspension servicing.
2000 CR250, pipe, filter, Vforce
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
-
scooter5002
- Posts: 425
- Joined: July 31st, 2010, 5:22 am
- Location: Tillsonburg On
Maybe you aren't getting full travel on your forks. Front too stiff, throws the chassis out of balance. Loads the back end and mabe your rebound is too loose. Compression too soft, back end collapses and then WHAMMO! Full on " How many tickets for THIS Fair Ride"! Make the Tilt-
A-Whirl seem pretty lame in comparison.
A-Whirl seem pretty lame in comparison.
Not only that but you have to start at square one. Oil and N2 charge.scooter5002 wrote:Maybe you aren't getting full travel on your forks. Front too stiff, throws the chassis out of balance. Loads the back end and mabe your rebound is too loose. Compression too soft, back end collapses and then WHAMMO! Full on " How many tickets for THIS Fair Ride"! Make the Tilt-
A-Whirl seem pretty lame in comparison.
Any air in the shock will totally screw up damping in both directions. Too low nitrogen pressure will also throw all adustments out the window...
'06 CRF450R, '02 R1, '11 YZ450F
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NightBiker07
- Posts: 1942
- Joined: April 16th, 2008, 8:59 pm
- Location: USA
If I could afford to, I would have the forks and shock serviced. But, owning two full size dirtbikes, a Streetbike, Truck, and 2 smaller pit bikes, keeping everything running gets expensive. I hope to have them all serviced by springtime, but who knows.Skillet wrote:No downside to a full service on that stuff - used bikes are full of surprises.
The front right fork needs rebuilt for sure, the seal is blown. Seems like Hondas always blow the right fork out first....
2000 CR250, pipe, filter, Vforce
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
-
2strokeforever
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: November 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Vernon B.C Canada
good starter for tuning your suspension
take a look at this link i included below.
the most sensible way i have seen it explained is called, staging, i believe. It really helped with one bike i just couldn't get right.
they recommend going full soft on both ends so you know exactly what that feels like, then working your way to to stiffer on your compression TWO clicks at a time. find a good whoop section and test it, then make a change.
Also make sure your SAG is correct, its a huge part of getting it to work properly and its so often overlooked. good luck
http://service.foxracingshox.com/powers ... _guide.htm
the most sensible way i have seen it explained is called, staging, i believe. It really helped with one bike i just couldn't get right.
they recommend going full soft on both ends so you know exactly what that feels like, then working your way to to stiffer on your compression TWO clicks at a time. find a good whoop section and test it, then make a change.
Also make sure your SAG is correct, its a huge part of getting it to work properly and its so often overlooked. good luck
http://service.foxracingshox.com/powers ... _guide.htm
perseverance is the slow road to success