Muslims....

[AlisoBob]

CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?



This is certainly 'food-for-thought'.



This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish. And send it on to everyone. Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.



Can a good Muslim be a good American?


This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:


Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia ..




Religiously - no.. . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam . (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)




Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.




Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.




Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews .




Politically - no.. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , the great Satan.




Domestically - no. .. . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 )




Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the American
Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.




Philosophically - no. . . .. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.




Spiritually - no.. . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.




Therefore, after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.




The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. ....

[redrocket190]

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-specte ... epage=true

[thestuz]

well have any muslims ever attacked america before or after 911????

or were they all just those crazy christians?
timothy mcveigh???


its only fanatical muslims financed by the cia that ya gotta look out for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOxEa4mkPik

http://www.islam101.com/terror/christianViolence.htm

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/c ... merica.htm

http://www.islam101.com/terror/mythViolence.htm

its all spin really.


technically, "indian hindus" are at war with australia because we eat beef... there "holy cow"... right??

if you dont like the muslim living next door, blame the immigration dept. not the religion.

but seriously, ive yet to come accross any religion that makes any sence other than aethiests.
if you want to believe in a bullshit book that was written in a time when the modern man was a mere simpleton....
well the choice is yours

there are plenty of people in your country that dont make "good americans".... how many are muslim?
how many asse hole muslims you met?

[redrocket190]

The issue is not about one religion v another, or even religion v atheism. It is about what do you do when adherence to religious principles comes into absolute conflict with the principles of liberty and freedom on which America was founded. Your example is asinine because Hindus do not want to convert Christians let alone destroy them. Are Hindus attempting to have pork banned for all Australians? If pork is sold and eaten will offenders be killed without question? You get the picture: It matters not what you believe providing it does not infringe on my rights. (And BTW I apply exactly the same standard to the "religious right" and "social conservatives" here.)

The word that needs to be added to everyone's vocabulary is dhimmitude: an attitude of concession, surrender and appeasement towards Islamic demands. It is derived by adding the productive suffix -tude to the Arabic language adjective dhimmi, which literally means protected and refers to a non-Muslim subject of a sharia law state. This is the creeping attack supported by political correctness and indulgence that runs in parallel to terrorist acts. Go to Youtube and search on "Mark Steyn".

[AlisoBob]

Coming to every country.....

[redrocket190]

[thestuz]

im no fan of religion of any kind. both have there violent roots imo.

i believe the problem we have here is "immigration"

we bring them to our country, then bomb the fuck out of there countries (creating more immigration again) and then we wonder why they get all up in arms.

did we ever have "any" any of this muslim related unrest before 911?
i cant recall any. but with america, australia, england attacking muslim countries all over the world, i can understand where all this hate comes from.

in one word..... immigration.
just wait till the mexican drug cartels find there way to inner america. these muslim problems will look pale in comparrison.

[thestuz]

The issue is not about one religion v another, or even religion v atheism. It is about what do you do when adherence to religious principles comes into absolute conflict with the principles of liberty and freedom on which America was founded. Your example is asinine because Hindus do not want to convert Christians let alone destroy them. Are Hindus attempting to have pork banned for all Australians? If pork is sold and eaten will offenders be killed without question? You get the picture: It matters not what you believe providing it does not infringe on my rights. (And BTW I apply exactly the same standard to the "religious right" and "social conservatives" here.)

The word that needs to be added to everyone's vocabulary is dhimmitude: an attitude of concession, surrender and appeasement towards Islamic demands. It is derived by adding the productive suffix -tude to the Arabic language adjective dhimmi, which literally means protected and refers to a non-Muslim subject of a sharia law state. This is the creeping attack supported by political correctness and indulgence that runs in parallel to terrorist acts. Go to Youtube and search on "Mark Steyn".

the principles of liberty and freedom upon which america was founded caters for there freedom of religious beliefs right?

im sure there are passages from the bible that conflict aswell but i wont go there.

isnt that what freedom is? to be free to do as you believe as long as you dont harm, injure or annoy?



my examoples were to show that spin can be put on anything.not to be taken seriously.

[redrocket190]

the principles of liberty and freedom upon which america was founded caters for there freedom of religious beliefs right?

....correct.

im sure there are passages from the bible that conflict aswell but i wont go there.

...Go there at your leisure. I am sure you are correct. And we have religious conservatives here who would put their interpretation of the Bible ahead of the Constitution. But in practice they do not prevail and the degree of their pursuit is measured i.e. what they want to take is - say - the right to marry for homosexuals v the right to life in the case of Islam that flat out wants to kill you.

isnt that what freedom is? to be free to do as you believe as long as you dont harm, injure or annoy?

...harm and injure yes, annoy no. What many fail to understand - particularly the PC crowd is freedom of speech means you're going to hear stuff you don't like. That's why the Government cant stop the obnoxious Westboro church.

my examoples were to show that spin can be put on anything.not to be taken seriously.

...spin implies selective presentation of the facts to put a point of view in a favorable (or unfavorable) light. If you're implication is a double standard - argue specifically.

[hoofarted]

I know I posted this already - But had to share again:

http://johnjudyc.blogspot.com/2010/08/prayer-mats.html




I could just imagine the backlash if that one asshat would of went thru with his burning of the Quran on 9/11. See what happened to the Danish artist for making a cartoon? WTF? Seriously.

[redrocket190]

did we ever have "any" any of this muslim related unrest before 911?
i cant recall any.

...need to read the paper more than once every 10 years.

In 1095, Pope Urban II preached a fiery sermon that changed the course of Western history: he urged Christian warriors to take up the sword and defend their brothers in the East who had been defeated by the Muslims, and to retake the holy city of Jerusalem, then under Islamic control.

[thestuz]

did we ever have "any" any of this muslim related unrest before 911?
i cant recall any.

...need to read the paper more than once every 10 years.

In 1095, Pope Urban II preached a fiery sermon that changed the course of Western history: he urged Christian warriors to take up the sword and defend their brothers in the East who had been defeated by the Muslims, and to retake the holy city of Jerusalem, then under Islamic control.

i was talking modern times bud.

for histories sake, they did it again in 1946-1947 after ww2 when they grabbed palestine from those "violent palestinian farmers" with there violent mulsim pitch forks and maraulding cattle.
the middle east always was predominantly muslim right?
i always assumed it was "us" going over "there" under the guise of "the crusades".


then youve got u.s. forces backing eithiopian christians to defeat somalian muslims in somalia. how about iraq maybe?
seems to me that we are the more violent ones in moddern times.

but im talking about "us" muslims in the u.s.
there havent been any muslim attacks against the us in the us right? except for the black gunman in that military base.

it just seems to me there is alot of anti muslim sentiment and its all because of 911.
muslims didnt carry out those attacks.

[redrocket190]

I agree with you that there has been little unrest amongst the US Muslim population before and after 9/11, but so what?. This does not undermine the argument that Islam runs counter to the principles on which America was founded, which was Bob's original point. It just means that this conflict has not been tested, but there is evidence that some in the Muslim population want sharia law implemented in the US which was my warning. I believe most Muslims here would prefer not to have to make that choice, because they know what the cost of going to an Muslim theocracy would be. Hypocritical, but human nature.

Now if you believe that all historical conflicts between the Muslim and the western developed world (and before that Christianity) are irrelevant to the discussion, including such items as the multiple embassy bombings, USS Cole etc. it kind of narrows things down.

[NightBiker07]

the day Sharia law gets invoked here is the day i go to war with the "man". no way in hell is that violent, backwards bullshit getting enacted onto any of my children........

[redrocket190]

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2010/Sept ... haria-Law/
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/09/15/cent ... o-america/

...an extract from the Introduction of this report.

Shariah is Anti-constitutional
If we are to face down shariah, we must understand what we are up against, not simply hope that dialogue and “engagement” will make the challenge go away. Those who today support shariah and the establishment of a global Islamic state (caliphate) are perforce supporting objectives that are incompatible with the U.S. Constitution, the civil rights the Constitution guarantees and the representative, accountable government it authorizes. In fact, shariah’s pursuit in the United States is tantamount to sedition. Whether pursued through the violent form of jihad (holy war) or stealthier practices that shariah Islamists often refer to as “dawa” (the “call to Islam”), shariah rejects fundamental premises of American society and values:

a. the bedrock proposition that the governed have a right to make law for themselves;
b. the republican democracy governed by the Constitution;
c. freedom of conscience; individual liberty (including in matters of personal privacy and sexual preference);
d. freedom of expression (including the liberty to analyze and criticize shariah);
e. economic liberty (including private property);
f. equal treatment under the law (including that of men and women, and of Muslims and non-Muslims);
g. freedom from cruel and unusual punishments; an unequivocal condemnation of terrorism (i.e., one that is based on a common sense meaning of the term and does not rationalize barbarity as legitimate “resistance”); and
h. an abiding commitment to deflate and resolve political controversies by the ordinary mechanisms of federalism and democracy, not wanton violence.

[thestuz]

ok, ok. so you say that under sharia law (i dont know where this came into it) that "they" will want to kill you?
well maybe in the lawless lands lika taliban controlled afghanistan but in all other instances, your wrong.

saudi arabia has sharia law-yet no christians get killed.
iran is sharia law i believe - yet christians and jews live there freely.(they just kill queers)
pakistan is another muslim society with the same deal.

as for muslims attacking american forces in other parts of the world, well that kinda doesnt need explaining when you look at how many of them americans kill.

[thestuz]

I agree with you that there has been little unrest amongst the US Muslim population before and after 9/11, but so what?. This does not undermine the argument that Islam runs counter to the principles on which America was founded, which was Bob's original point.

"your own government runs counter to the principles which your country was founded half the time thats what.
as you have aggreed, there is little to no unrest from muslims. and in your own statement, muslims there would not want that choice of sharia law.."

to what It just means that this conflict has not been tested, but there is evidence that some in the Muslim population want sharia law implemented in the US which was my warning.

hasnt been tested???
youve been waging illegal war against muslim countries now for how long?
how many dead?
how many maimed?

i really think you and i have no idea how much suffering our countries inflict on them.

we sit back in the comfort of our lounge rooms and on our wide screen plasmas, we sit and watch the " shock and awe" campaign in iraq like its some movie.
10,000 iraqi civilians died in that 3 day campaign.
not to mention we bomber there sewage, electrical,water.
imagine living in 110 degree heat and having that thrust upon you?

it borders on genocide what past administrations have done and are doing.
food sanctions, medicine sanctions, for what?

and here we are saying they dont quite fit into our culture?


and the fact that no muslims in america turn on there country? thats unbelievable. must be a peacefull lot imo.



I believe most Muslims here would prefer not to have to make that choice, because they know what the cost of going to an Muslim theocracy would be. Hypocritical, but human nature.

Now if you believe that all historical conflicts between the Muslim and the western developed world (and before that Christianity) are irrelevant to the discussion, including such items as the multiple embassy bombings, USS Cole etc. it kind of narrows things down.

sorry i dont know how to cut and paste quotes propperly yet. kinda makes a mess out of my posts. ill learn.

[thestuz]

just seems to me that the u.s. is on a bit of a "anti-muslim" slide atm.
its stupifying.

remember, it was your government that took your rights away, not muslims.

with all due respect to members on this forum.

redrocket, your obviously imo, one of the smarter ones on here.
so maybe you can answer this for me....

if americans have so much hate for muslims because of 911,then

WHY IS IT THAT YOU LET ISRAELIS BOMB YOU ON 911 WITH VAN AND TRUCK BOMBS, YET THEY ESCAPE ANY BACKLASH
???
THEN YOU SEND THEM BACK TO ISRAEL WHERE THEY ARE IMMUNE FROM FURTHER INVESTIGATION AND PROSSECUTION???


why is the american public so naive to blame countries like iraq(who knowingly had nothing to do with 911), when israel was found to be behind some of it 911???

im having alot of trouble understanding americas stance on this!!!!

[thestuz]

BOB.

have you heard of " the protocols of zion?

if so, whats your opinion of people following them becoming "good americans"?

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm
link

[AlisoBob]

I know that when my relatives came over from Austria, they were embarrased that they wrote and spoke no english, worked shit jobs....and worked very hard to correct his ASAP and couldnt wait to become Americans.

I know that when Vickis relitives came over from the UK, they did the same.

I know that when I was a kid, EVERY gardner was japanese because they were the "mexicans" of their time. Now every jap is a doctor, dentist, artcitect, or some other profession..... and we NUKED their fuckin ass's.

I know that Albert Pujols recently said that the best day of his entire life was the day he was granted U.S. Citizenship.

I also know that every muslim has no desire whatsoever to become an "American. "

There here because living in a litterbox full of violence sucks ass, we have great weather and education and healthcare and our constitution mandates we put up with their shit... where as in their home country they would be beheaded for stirring up any shit.

Fuck the muslims, assimilate of go the fuck home.

[redrocket190]

just seems to me that the u.s. is on a bit of a "anti-muslim" slide atm. its stupefying.

Even if you leave 9/11 out of the equation, representatives of Islam have attacked America before and after that event. This is going to create some form of response and this despite the mainstream media and the government massaging the information. The Cordoba mosque in New York is just one example of Muslims rubbing non-Muslims face in it. 67% of the population are against it. In innately feels wrong to most.

if Americans have so much hate for Muslims because of 911,then WHY IS IT THAT YOU LET ISRAELIS BOMB YOU ON 911 WITH VAN AND TRUCK BOMBS, YET THEY ESCAPE ANY BACKLASH
??? THEN YOU SEND THEM BACK TO ISRAEL WHERE THEY ARE IMMUNE FROM FURTHER INVESTIGATION AND PROSECUTION???

Until someone provides a comprehensive theory around the motive, means and opportunity for Israel and the Federal Government to do this, we'll just have to disagree. I always look at the strategic perspective first and ask has Israel or America furthered their objectives with this act? All the conspiracy theorist has to do is selectively pick evidence and raise any kind of doubt without addressing the bigger picture.

why is the American public so naive to blame countries like Iraq (who knowingly had nothing to do with 911), when Israel was found to be behind some of it 911???

I am not so sure the American people have ever blamed Iraq for 9/11. Iraq's potential involvement and the WMD arguments were drummed up by the neocons to justify the invasion.

im having alot of trouble understanding Americas stance on this!!!!

If you don't identify with core American values and/or have not been exposed to American culture directly this will be very difficult.

[redrocket190]

I know that when my relatives came over from Austria, they were embarrased that they wrote and spoke no english, worked shit jobs....and worked very hard to correct his ASAP and couldnt wait to become Americans.

I know that when Vickis relitives came over from the UK, they did the same.

I know that when I was a kid, EVERY gardner was japanese because they were the "mexicans" of their time. Now every jap is a doctor, dentist, artcitect, or some other profession..... and we NUKED their fuckin ass's.

I know that Albert Pujols recently said that the best day of his entire life was the day he was granted U.S. Citizenship.

I also know that every muslim has no desire whatsoever to become an "American. "

There here because living in a litterbox full of violence sucks ass, we have great weather and education and healthcare and our constitution mandates we put up with their shit... where as in their home country they would be beheaded for stirring up any shit.

Fuck the muslims, assimilate of go the fuck home.

Unfortunately America's embrace of multi-culturalism has meant that immigrants are no longer required to embrace American values along with their residency or citizenship. This is the issue that countries like France, UK and the Netherlands are waking up to.

[AlisoBob]

I am not so sure the American people have ever blamed Iraq for 9/11. Iraq's potential involvement and the WMD arguments were drummed up by the neocons to justify the invasion.

I blame the Saudi's and the Egytptians...

[redrocket190]

The Saudi royal family represents the height of hypocrisy. They indulge at home and export internationally the extreme form of Islam called Wahhabism, while happily selling oil to America and buying arms in return (even just recently). Run the country with an iron fist. Saudi could simply ask all the resident American forces to leave tomorrow, but their presence makes them stronger against their Arab opponents like Iran and before that Iraq.

I am not read up on Egypt of late, but believe there is a significant extremist condition who would take Egypt in a more fundamentalist direction if they got into power.

Watch Turkey. They are moving from secular government that allowed Islam to a more Islamic state.

[NightBiker07]

And FTR, i dont think all Muslims are bad. hell, look at Iraq.....the non-militarized citizens who simply want to work and eat were running to our troops for help the first time we were over there. the people running everything are the assholes focused on fighting, but what about the people that just want to carry out their lives in peace, which i suspect a good portion of them want to do.