Fatboy suspension

[Ryanjohnson86]

Yeah that's his number. I'm not to sure about the carb I know it's a pwk. It's got a rad valve. He said it was a better carb on it. To tell you the truth I just ride the fuck out of it. It's a blast.

Give him a call he's talking about getting a quad or some shit

[Ryanjohnson86]

I'm not looking to be a pro desert racer or a sx champ. I just want to be able to ride and not wory about how bad my knees are going to hurt when I'm done riding. Already had 2 knee surgeries I don't want to speed up the process if I don't have to. My plan was to spring it for as close to my wieght as possible and put all new seals in and then ride the piss out of it.

SAMs was saying all I need to do is re shim it and it should be good to go. If I need to revalve it how do I know what valving to use?

[M.F.D.B.]

You forget were talking about CR500's..... When you ride, the front end is artificially "light" due to the available torque. It seems these spring calculators always forget this fact.

You been huffing to much Castor fumes...

If you are cruising across super cross high whoops on a 450 or a 500AF (built on a 450 of the same make) with the same size rider and same suspension setup they will behave exactly the same...

Oil level and spring rate have way more to do with bottoming resistance than valving on fat boy setups... trust me.

Oil level yes (this has to due with valving as oil level has no connection with spring rate, as the air cution is its own entity), but I completely disagree with spring rate. The valving and oil level has WAAAAYYY more effect than a few KG/MM's of spring rate, TRUST ME!

If you rely on only valving, the ride will be really harsh.

If you valve your low speed, mid (check valve it, trust me!) and high speed shim stacks correctly, you will have a proper working suspension with ZERO harshness, I have 3 completely different bikes in my garage that prove this. Also, the best bang for the buck any of you twin chamber fork guys can spend is this:



They are in all 3 of my suspension builds and I swear by them!

[Ryanjohnson86]

Are those progessive fork springs?

[M.F.D.B.]

SAMs was saying all I need to do is re shim it and it should be good to go. If I need to revalve it how do I know what valving to use?

Shimming is synonymous with "valving". But the stock springs in a crf 250 are SEVERAL sizes too soft for your weight. If you are going to do the shimming/re-valving yourself I would recommend Race Tech G2R for the forks and G3LD for the shock. They are about as easy as a DIY guy could hope for. If you plan to keep the stock valve and simply re-shim I would have to do some research to find out what is the best route for DIY, im not sure if that exists. You would most likely have to send you valve stack out to someone who knows what they are doing...

[M.F.D.B.]

Are those progessive fork springs?

Close, they are progressive compression valve springs. The effect is they soften the first 3rd of your stroke and stiffen the last 3rd. This gives you more progressive softer initial travel while maintaining the same bottoming resistance. Very similar as sub tanks but much much cheaper, no leaks and easily reversible...

[M.F.D.B.]

Ok im confused a bit, I was going back and reading a few things but these 2 post are contradictory?

Who makes the best springs for a fat fuck?
350lb novice rider.
2003 cr250/500

I'm no bad ass hucking 90 footers or anything but I do go out to the track quite a bit only thing is it's on the 1997 stealy 5 hundo with stock suspension.

[Ryanjohnson86]

Why is it contradiciting?
I have an 03 cr250 and a 1997 cr500
my 250 sits because I ride the 500 now.
I was going to sell both and buy a 450
I decided to finally do what I originally planned
so now it's going to be an 03cr500af
I'm a novice in my eyes
beginner in racers eyes for sure.
I am new to tracks and jumping in general
I trail rode mostly until I hit svmx
now I would rather hit the track then trail ride


Does that catch you up?

[M.F.D.B.]

Ok that makes sense, its when you put "stock cr500 suspension" I thought maybe you used the suspension of the 500 when you did the AF or something funky like that.

You should come out to SVMX Friday and cruise around a bit on my 03 CR250. Im running the stock springs as they are correct for my weight but the suspension mods are as follows:

FORKS-
Race Tech G2R Gold valves
Merge RRS comp springs

SHOCK-
Race Tech G3LD Gold valve
Rebound separator valve

Setup is "Motorcross Novice Standard"

This is basically like taking your exact bike and doing only valving mods and reducing HP...

[Ryanjohnson86]

I don't mean to sound like a complete idiot but wouldn't the bike feel the same since my fat ass would just pancake the suspension?

[M.F.D.B.]

I don't mean to sound like a complete idiot but wouldn't the bike feel the same since my fat ass would just pancake the suspension?

In both cases the spring rates and subsequent appropriate valving is too soft, but the comparison for you would be proper professional valving compared to stock crappy Honda. My 280 pound buddy (the owner of ThumperTalk) rode my bike around SVMX and jumped it just fine...

You simply cannot change only one aspect alone especially when you are talking several spring rates. You cant just pop the correct springs in and expect the valving to be able to control it properly. Like an engine, its the combination that must be right, not individual components tossed in without being properly matched...

[Ryanjohnson86]

I get what ur saying. Stock is rough on my knees as u would expect.

I will see what's going on with my buddy if he wants to go to svmx or not. I'm bikeless at the moment both bikes are torn down and the frame is at the welder. But if he wants to ride I will come out and bull shit for sure.
I got issues with riding peoples bikes. I would feel terrible if I dumped it.
But I have no issues with letting people ride my shit. Kinda weird I guess.

[M.F.D.B.]

Stock is rough on my knees as u would expect.

Rough from bottoming a lot or through normal stroke?

I would feel terrible if I dumped it. But I have no issues with letting people ride my shit. Kinda weird I guess.

If you just take it on an easy cruise and dont try to clear the huge table you should be fine...

Heck, take it on the kiddy track, it should be done by then... lol

It is a dirt bike after all, as long as you dont beat on my trans im happy!

Very few people get to ride my street bike however...

[Ryanjohnson86]

The 500 bottoms a lot on the track and desert. I only trail rode the 250 and I never realy noticed if it bottomed . If I was jumping it like I do the 500 I'm sure it would bottom out.
See you have the same outlook I do on bikes. It's just a dirt bike. Lol. If I can talk my buddy into coming out there this weekend I will check it out.

[M.F.D.B.]

Sounds good, I have an all black Chevy Diesel. Black rims with 33" mudder tires, no lift or flat biller stuff. My riding buddies have a Yellow lifted F250 4 door riding a KTM smoker and a White Chevy Diesel all stock. We park together so should be easy to spot. The KTM guy is about the fastest guy out there (hes an AMA and works over 30 Expert) and there is only a few smokers so we should be easy to spot...

[AlisoBob]

You been huffing to much Castor fumes...

Dude, my cock weighs more than you do, and no.... this isnt My First Dirt Bike.

If you put those Monster Truck springs in a bike... yea... it wont bottom out, thats for sure.

It also wont turn either when you go into a corner with the forks all topped out with RJ86's ass firmly planted on the seat.

Go for it.

When you get tired of overshooting corners.... Call Rick Johnson at Too Tech suspensions and get some of his Bottoming Pistons



They work

[M.F.D.B.]

Dude, my cock weighs more than you do

No shit? You are in the wrong line of bidness!

If you put those Monster Truck springs in a bike... yea... it wont bottom out, thats for sure.

You have to stop adjusting fork bottoming with spring rate, it really is completely incorrect, dont take my word for it, ask a proffesional. Spring rate is simply ride height, you should on level ground be riding in the first 1/3 of your stroke (if i remember right). All they do is make your suspension return back to its correct ride height after its been compressed, thats it. The stiffest spring you can buy isnt going to keep you from bottoming out if you dump all the oil out of your forks, PERIOD.

[M.F.D.B.]

One thing I forgot, if you are running an incorrect spring rate for your weight you will NOT* be able to correctly set your sag. Since you cannot adjust "sag" on a dirt bike fork like you can on most street bikes, you have to do this by spring rate. This is the reason a bike with incorrect springs "wont turn" like you are saying...

[AlisoBob]

Since you cannot adjust "sag" on a dirt bike fork like you can on most street bikes, you have to do this by spring rate.

Sure you can... you've never seen preload washers for MX fork springs?

[M.F.D.B.]

Since you cannot adjust "sag" on a dirt bike fork like you can on most street bikes, you have to do this by spring rate.

Sure you can... you've never seen preload washers for MX fork springs?

Yes, do you know what they are for? If you want a ".45kg/mm" rate but there isnt a "45" available you toss some washers in so you can be "between" sizes. Same idea as putting a .44 kg in one leg and a .46 kg in the other, the point is no one stacks a bunch of preload spacers in the forks when they are having bottoming issues. First thing they do is add oil or turn up a clicker, thats the proper way anyways.

Next time you are at a race go ask a suspension tuner what he thinks you should do to a fork when you have a bottoming issue, ill bet you the title to my Diesel he doesnt tell you to put a stiffer spring in, wanna take that bet?

[AlisoBob]

The washers have nothing to do with rate.

A .45 fork spring compresses at .45kg per mm from free legnth to coil bind.

The rate dosent change....

[AlisoBob]

Next time you are at a race go ask a suspension tuner what he thinks you should do to a fork when you have a bottoming issue, ill bet you the title to my Diesel he doesnt tell you to put a stiffer spring in, wanna take that bet?

Your the one who wants to put the .6's in, not me.

Clickers to control bottoming?

[MojoScojo]

Just going to throw my in here. I'm not disagreeing with anybody and I'm not a track rider.

My experience: Correct spring rates made a HUGE improvement.
Revalving made a pretty nice improvement on top of that.
The cost for the springs was reasonably small for the return achieved. I WILL do that modification to every bike I own.
Revalving was a bit more money, but I didn't do it myself. The improvement was nowhere near as drastic. Was it worthwhile? Definitely. Would I do it for every bike I owned? No. Was it a change that I thought a beginner would notice? No.

I'm only 220lbs and don't jump though. I can see where valving has a larger effect on a bigger guy.

I would simply suggest you start with correcting your spring rate, play with your clickers, and see where that puts you before you dump more money into valving. When you understand what your clickers do for you, THEN do the valving.

Much like engine tuning, changing more than 1 thing at a time teaches you nothing and is frequently counterproductive.

[M.F.D.B.]

Keep adjusting using springs, its your joints and muscles paying the price. Go stack a shit load of preload washers on your fork springs, it wont be "bottoming out" you will be feeling, it will be COIL BIND...knock yourself out.

In the mean time ill keep doing what guys who make big bucks doing this stuff tell me to do...

[M.F.D.B.]

Well said Mojo...