Fatboy suspension

[MojoScojo]

As far as what the appropriate spring rate should be for you... A conversation with a professional suspension tuner is worthwhile. That conversation should be free. If it's not, the guy isn't worth talking to and you should find someone else.

[AlisoBob]

Go stack a shit load of preload washers on your fork springs, it wont be "bottoming out" you will be feeling, it will be COIL BIND.....

The subject of washers came up because you said that " you cant adjust preload in MX forks" ... which is simply not true.

[Ryanjohnson86]

So I was thinking about progressive springs or the other ones md were talking about and running gold valves.

I tyink .52 fork springs because that is the closest I can get.
And a 6.4 rear.

As far as turning... the suspension sags so much I can't turn it any ways so anything wil help. That's my philosophy any ways

[M.F.D.B.]

Go stack a shit load of preload washers on your fork springs, it wont be "bottoming out" you will be feeling, it will be COIL BIND.....

The subject of washers came up because you said that " you cant adjust preload in MX forks" ... which is simply not true.

That’s not what I said...

This is what I said:

Since you cannot adjust "sag" on a dirt bike fork like you can on most street bikes

As in EXTERNALLY, like on a shock. Street bikes allow you to simply turn a nut to adjust "pre-load" like these shims you speak of, Jap and Austrian dirt bikes and most others do not. You would have to open your fork tubes every time you went to a track or riding area that caused a change in your "bottoming out amount" to make a change to that setting. This is ridiculous and why PROFESSIONALS use an "O-ring" on the fork slider. If you are bottoming too much, tighten up the Comp adjuster clicker. If you don’t bottom at all, LOOSEN the clicker as you are wasting available travel. Just like jetting, if you find yourself way tight or way loose on the clickers all the time, then bust the valves out and re-shim to a stiffer or looser shim stack, this is how professionals do it. This is also why when you use a professionals "kit" like Race Tech, when you are done they tell you to place the clickers "in the middle" so as to have the most "tune ability" just like the proper way to set a Pilot jet. You want the jet that puts the bikes sweet spot around 1.5 turns since your adjustment range is 0-3. Simple?

BTW, out of all the experts ive talked to and the kits ive done, not one of them has recommended spending the time to set fork "sag" with pre-load shims like you speak of. That’s strictly high level stuff and once again, someone following your spring recommendations would end up with the COMPLETE INABILITY to properly set their sag, which is just about the single MOST IMPORTANT AND HIGHLY RECOMENDED STARTING POINTS OF SUSPENSION SETUP...

Incorrect spring rate simply translates to inability to set proper sag...

[M.F.D.B.]

So I was thinking about progressive springs or the other ones md were talking about and running gold valves.

I think .52 fork springs because that is the closest I can get.
And a 6.4 rear.

As far as turning... the suspension sags so much I can't turn it any ways so anything wil help. That's my philosophy any ways

Since we have had some discrepancies in opinions, I called Race Tech a few minutes ago and talked to Brad. Here are his recommendations, you make the call for yourself:

.52 (largest fork spring they can get even from Eibach, so you would have to go custom wound otherwise)

6.0 shock, he as well as myself never recommend "off balance springs" front to rear, balance is more important front to back than the actual rate. A ROUGH rule of thumb is "move the decimal" a .52 KG/mm fork spring should use ROUGHLY a 5.2KG/mm shock spring. Linkage ratios vary as do other things but this is a good "guide".

He says a revalve is a MUST in your case or you will bottom the shit out of the bike as the stock valving is designed for the stock springs. Once you put the stiffer springs in the valves will be unable to control the much higher rate also causing loss of control and balance. Changes as drastic as you will be doing in both spring rate and valving pretty much require that both be preformed at the same time...

[AlisoBob]

I called Race Tech a few minutes ago and talked to Brad. Here are his recommendations, you make the call for yourself:

.52 fork springs

...those .52's are closer to what you want.

[AlisoBob]

Once you put the stiffer springs in the valves will be unable to control the much higher rate also causing loss of control and balance...

You stated that RATE only set the RIDE HEIGHT.

[pstoffers]

This bike has a stock 89 CR500 shock with a 11.2 spring. Stock 01 KX 125 forks with .52 and a 1 1/2" PVC spacer. WORKS GREAT

[M.F.D.B.]

You stated that RATE only set the RIDE HEIGHT.

Correct...

And springs return your suspension back to its starting point, its the valves and oil that do all the magic...

[Ryanjohnson86]

Ok after that intense conversation.
What would be my best bet for suspension set up.

.52/6.4 or thos sweet progressive springs?
Gold valves?

I ride a ton of trails
I jump often
and I ride the track 2-3 time a month.

Just lay it out for me to play it out.

[M.F.D.B.]

I called Race Tech a few minutes ago and talked to Brad. Here are his recommendations, you make the call for yourself:

.52 fork springs

...those .52's are closer to what you want.

Sorry Charlie, you are manipulating facts again by editing quotes. The correct rate he needs is around 0.60 kg/mm but 0.52 kg/mm is the stiffest available (Non-custom wound)...

[M.F.D.B.]

Ok after that intense conversation.
What would be my best bet for suspension set up.

.52/6.4 or thos sweet progressive springs?
Gold valves?

I ride a ton of trails
I jump often
and I ride the track 2-3 time a month.

Just lay it out for me to play it out.

According to Race Tech's main dude as of 9am this morning:

Forks:
.52 KG fork spring
G2R Gold valves
Race Tech USO 1 if I remember right or (what I use) Maxima Fork oil

Shock
6.0 KG spring
G3LD Gold valve
Rebound separator valve (not required but highly recommended)
Race Tech USO 1 if I remember right or (what I use) Maxima Shock oil

Race Techs site has been down all day since I spoke with them earlier. If you can come to the shop and pay cash I can give you a hefty discount. Or if you want to take your business elsewhere let me know and ill give you part numbers so they dont screw up. We also do business with other suspension companies, but my only other experience is with Fine Line (besides Race Tech).

[Ryanjohnson86]

Yeah I will go thru you for the suspension. I got to get my frame from the welder get it back together and the suspension is first on the list.

So even though I can get a bigger rear spring I should still go with a 6.0?

You want to teach me how to do the suspension?

[M.F.D.B.]

So even though I can get a bigger rear spring I should still go with a 6.0?

Yup, in an effort to preserve balance front to rear, which is far more important than making the rear correct and the front too soft. This will only cause your front end to ride way to low steepening your rake angle to the point of instability...

You want to teach me how to do the suspension?

I would have to be good enough at it to be a teacher in order to do that!

I could definitely lend a hand tho...

[Ryanjohnson86]

Right on. I will bring the beer!

I got a 6.0 for the stealy. I gotta call Sam to see if it will fit the 250.

So all I need is the valves and the front springs if the rear works.

I no you prolly don't know off hand but what would that run me.

Also do I need new fork seals and a rebuild kit to do this?

[M.F.D.B.]

Right on. I will bring the beer!

Bring it home? We are doing this shit at your house holmes... HAHAHA

I no you prolly don't know off hand but what would that run me.

Ill let you know tomorrow...

Also do I need new fork seals and a rebuild kit to do this?

If they arnt leaking dont waste your money. Rebuild kit is not necessary unless there is damage and you wont know until its apart...

[Ryanjohnson86]

My house? Works for me. Any special tools Ima need. My tool box Has the basics. The seals don't leak. And like you said we won't know until we crack em open. As much as that bike was ridden I would say it's prolly in pretty good shape.

Yeah let me know man. You get comission of your sales?
I'm also trying to get some a ton of other parts for this pig.

[AlisoBob]

Right on. I will bring the beer!

Bring it home? We are doing this shit at your house holmes... HAHAHA

I take this as MFDB dosent want you to know where he lives for when it all goes sidways....

If the right way to do it is get custom wound springs.. then do it.

Why nigger rig it for this guy?

[AlisoBob]

I called Race Tech a few minutes ago and talked to Brad. Here are his recommendations, you make the call for yourself:

.52 fork springs

...those .52's are closer to what you want.

Sorry Charlie, you are manipulating facts again by editing quotes.

Didnt manipulate anything. Thats quote per quote ver batum.

[M.F.D.B.]

My house? Works for me.

Unless you think there is room in mine?

Any special tools Ima need.

A few, I only have KYB tools that I own..

My tool box Has the basics.

Same here, but its only a few special tools you HAVE to have, theres a few more that make things easier but are not required...

You get comission of your sales?

Nope...

I'm also trying to get some a ton of other parts for this pig.

No worries, I can take care of anyone who can come and get the stuff in person and pay cash. If I have to ship it and use PayPal or Credit Card the boss man wont let me hook you guys up...

[Ryanjohnson86]

I'm not trying to get custom springs. Sound like it will cost More then I want to spend.

[Ryanjohnson86]

Hey is that the 99 cr500 on craigslist?

If it is I talked to you. I was going to trade you my 250 for your 500

there is deffinatly no room. I got plenty since I don't even store my bikes at my house.

[M.F.D.B.]

I take this as MFDB dosent want you to know where he lives for when it all goes sidways....

Are you fuggin kidding me? You know where I live, tell him my address, and ill PM him too, you wont need to know it anymore cuz if you are going to put me in the same category as Thatcher, you can GFYS and loose my address (after you PM him) not to mention he will be picking them up from my work and will know exactly where that is...asshole...

If the right way to do it is get custom wound springs.. then do it.

That is the best route, but you have been trying to talk him out of that the whole day...

Why nigger rig it for this guy?

For who? I know you aint talking to me...

[M.F.D.B.]

Hey is that the 99 cr500 on craigslist?

If it is I talked to you. I was going to trade you my 250 for your 500

there is deffinatly no room. I got plenty since I don't even store my bikes at my house.

Its been on Craigs list before, but I have had a lot of guys offer me trades, what was the specifics?

[AlisoBob]

]If the right way to do it is get custom wound springs.. then do it.

That is the best route, but you have been trying to talk him out of that the whole day...

Why nigger rig it for this guy?

For who? I know you aint talking to me...

You swear .59's are the only way to go.... so stick to your guns and order them.

If I thought something was the only way to go... I wouldnt do it any other way.

Anything less is a nigge rig. Period.