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Would there be enough of a market out there to support 50 motors? Identical (or improved upon) to stock?

4Z wrote:Would there be enough of a market out there to support 50 motors? Identical (or improved upon) to stock?

Most likely not, unless you can make the price very competetive, which I highly doubt!!

you seen the price tag for billet banshee cases? im pretty sure just the material (less machining) would cost more than new OEM cases. it is a bad ass idea though

billet just means machined from chunks of cast aluminum. What advantage do you see to it?

nmdesertrider wrote:billet just means machined from chunks of cast aluminum. What advantage do you see to it?

WRONG...

HUGE difference between extruded billet and cast holmes...you are on the inna-net, do some research first...

Only thing to really improve on is adding material at the transfer port passages ( Base Gasket) and adding a steel insert at the drain plug.

?????

from wikipedia:

Billet refers to a cast semi finished product. It is also referred to as ingot, particularly for smaller sizes. A billet is typically cast to a rectangular, hexagonal or round cross section compatible with secondary processing, e.g. forging. It can be produced either as coil or cut lengths. Ingots and billets are collectively known as barstock.


http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tech/t ... index.html

Wiki is wrong...

From Alcoa :
Alcoa’s billets are produced to provide the best performance at the extrusion press in terms of speeds, surface finish and mechanical properties. The molten metal is treated to ensure it is clean and free of excessive hydrogen contamination. Alcoa extrusion ingot is virtually free of dross, porosities, metallic inclusions, oxides or other undesirable contamination and discontinuities. The chemical trace elements are controlled to a very low contamination level. The internal microstructure is modified through a controlled thermal treatment known as homogenizing process. The main objectives for homogenizing the billets are: minimize the detrimental effect of the Fe phases, eliminate grain or micro- segregation and break up the intermetallic constituents producing a well refined easier to extrude microstructure.

Let me know when you find a source of extruded billets big enough to machine a case halve out of it.

[quote="M.F.D.B
Most likely not, unless you can make the price very competetive, which I highly doubt!! [/quote]

You say competetive, is someone doing this already? If the program exists, could or does provide any improvements, or crank size changes.
I was just tossing it out there to see if it was a good road to go down.
Or as my wife would call it ... "mental masterbation"

You would be shocked to find out what resources are available near a aiplane factory.

nmdesertrider wrote:Let me know when you find a source of extruded billets big enough to machine a case halve out of it.

You need to spend more time reading then typing. Ive personally seen billets the size of CARS...

ALCOA** Up to 10,000 lbs. Forged Aluminum Block

Whaddya think, 10,000 lbs. big enough to make a case half??

4Z wrote:
You say competetive, is someone doing this already?

What I meant as "competetive" was close enough to the cast price people would be willing to pony up the extra skins for it. If a stock cast case is $200ish and you billet case is $2000ish its not going to sell well...

4Z wrote:If the program exists, could or does provide any improvements, or crank size changes.

The biggest improvment over what Bob already stated would be more crank clearance for big stroker cranks, and more beef in the kicker area...

M.F.D.B. then there are possibilities on improvements that would make a billet case worth while.

Cost. The cost would not be intended to compete with stock cases. These would be in a market for folks that wanted what the "made from billet" (MFB) cases would offer and would expect to pay extra for those features. That is why one must ask the question up front. "What is the value of a MFB case if all the improvements are built in. There is no way a guy would expect to be able to compete with OE cases.
Now, if you could pay for the CMM, design and machine times by spreading the cost out, say......over 50 motors and it kept the cost in the realm of what the market (small as it may be) would bear. Then the only question would be do you roll the dice? (no pun intended).

I know you can buy anything if you are willing to pay the cost. I meant find me a supplier. What do you think the minimum order is on 5x10 barstock?

If you enjoy doing something pointless, go ahead and give it a go.

nmdesertrider wrote:If you enjoy doing something pointless, go ahead and give it a go.

You mean like arguing with knuckleheads whos keyboards have Diarrhea??

4Z wrote: M.F.D.B. then there are possibilities on improvements that would make a billet case worth while.

I agree...

4Z wrote:Cost. The cost would not be intended to compete with stock cases. These would be in a market for folks that wanted what the "made from billet" (MFB) cases would offer and would expect to pay extra for those features.

Let me clarify, I dont mean make a billet case for the same price as a stock, what im trying to say is the stock cases work damn well how they are. If they had constant problems (like the occasional cracked kicker) or they failed on a regular basis then there would be a high demand for somnething better. But since the stock cases work so well, theres only a few things that the forged case can offer to improve. So there isnt much demand for soemthing "better" as the stock case works very well. Look at Banshees for example; if you wanna go "BIG" you HAVE to get an aftermarket case and cylinders, so theres a much higher demand for Banshees...

4Z wrote:That is why one must ask the question up front. "What is the value of a MFB case if all the improvements are built in.

Good question!!

You didn't come here asking if we thought it was something you wanted to try once because it was cool (I would have said go for it), you laid it out as a business proposal. I think your chance of making a dime off of this is ZERO. If you think otherwise you are inhaling crack.


Oh and one other thing, if you do make a motor out of billet it will be much heavier, because you won't be able to match the radiuses of the casting.

M.F.D.B. wrote:

nmdesertrider wrote:If you enjoy doing something pointless, go ahead and give it a go.

You mean like arguing with knuckleheads whos keyboards have Diarrhea??

nmdesertrider wrote: you are inhaling crack.

You looking in the mirror??

nmdesertrider wrote:Oh and one other thing, if you do make a motor out of billet it will be much heavier, because you won't be able to match the radiuses of the casting.

This guy is either completely dumb, a troll, or GOMEZ reincarnated!!

Poll anyone?? (pun intended)...

uh oh! I heard GOMEZ! Has GOMEZ been eating pills again??
naaa, I doubt it...
there are way better places to put all that money than to slightly improve a great design that can take whatever you can dish out! just my .02

Thanks guys. I thought it would be a good topic to discuss. Our overly positive replies have turned it to entertainment instead of constructive ideas (don't drink the water down there......ops wrong country). For the record, I would never in a million years even think about trying to make money in the toy box. If there was a need and that need opened doors, I would like to turn the knob.

Now, how about a MFB kick start lever? LMAO!!!

WOW!

I'm shocked at how many people don't know what they are talking about!

I can think of a bunch of things that I could improve on the stock cases would I do the RD and Prototypes? No...

Lynn it's still a great topic to kick around between some of us....

well, sure, there is room for improvement on anything, but for the most part, the cases are not a problem. I would focus more on the jug. to design a totally different jug much like the saber. make it al sleeve, a larger bore, powervalve with additional exhaust ports, 3 sets of transfers, a much wider intake with the reed cage from a large sled motor, etc. etc. Make it actually perform like a 250 with twice the displacement!

We were just talking about that! Hmmmmm....

Lynn maybe we ought to include Danny in on our little secrets?

Oh yeah my the Titanium supllier said it's no problem.

We can easily handle all of your Ti machining and welding needs.

Give me a call when you can.

teemtrubble wrote: Titanium

Did someone say the magic word???

Hey MF, how about making seats covered with hummingbird pelts, that would be a great idea