Proper Initial Run In & Break In Proceedures

Post by **AlisoBob** » June 22nd, 2007, 12:36 am

Jerry Hall is a very well respected engine builder and Tuner. These are his thoughts om 2 stroke engine break in...

....this is what the man said...

1. If the ring is round, and the bore is round... the ring is seated..... period. If you find excessive blow by, get a new machinist.

2. No, you cannot "Heat Treat" anything inside your motor by following some heat cycle ritual you saw on Thumpertalk....

3. So, what are you trying to accomplish then? In a nutshell...... you are trying to acclimatize the piston to the bore..... I'll explain.

Obviously, when the engine is cold, everything is at room temperature. Once started the piston heats quickly, while the cylinder takes a while to catch up as it has both greater mass, and cooling water running through it. At some point the piston will reach a final " No Load" temp of perhaps 300 degrees, and so will the cooling system if we dont start riding.... so monitor things closely and shut off the bike once it gets pretty warm ( Coolant starting to come out of the overflow..)

Great!!! You just did your first run in. The only real purpose is to check your work and see if the engine runs, and is doesnt leak.

At this point you should do two things... retorque the bolts and hoses, and put as large a pilot jet and the engine will take for your riding conditions.

Now, for the breakin- and the reasons behind it.

First imagine your getting into the jacuzzi, and its 103 degrees.... Do you just hop right in? NOWAY! The twig and berries must be slowly acclimatized to the elevated tempreture, or severe discomfort will be the only result... Your piston is no different.

Once you have checked your bolts, and jetting the pilot up, find a fairly large riding area... start the bike, and warm it up. Once done ...... Ride.

The goal is to get the jug up to operation tempreture, then increase the piston temp in stages, up to max operating temp.

How is this done?

1. Once the engine is warm, make a few hard acceleration runs in FIRST GEAR ONLY! This will bring the piston temp up to about 350 degrees.

2. Then make a few runs through first and into second.... 375 degrees.

3. 1st, 2nd, and into third...... 400 degrees

4. 2nd and 3rd.... 425 degrees

5. 3rd and 4th.... 500 degrees

6. 4th and 5th..... 675 degrees.

What you have effectivly done is the mechanical version of lowering yourself into that jacuzzi I mentioned. As the temperature of the piston increased, you very slowly brought the piston to full size, and any micro " highspots" were allowed to mate together for brief periods of time, and then the throttle was closed and EXTRA OIL was allowed into the engine by the oversized pilot jet to both cool and lubricate.

NOTE! No increase was made to the needle or main jet as this would hamper the ability to get the piston temp up to where it should be.

Jerry stated that on his dyno, he can accomplish this drill in about 10 minutes. On a bike it should take about 20. Once done, go hammer that thing!

Excessive running in the garage does nothing.
Putt-Putting ( Babying) the motor for the first hour does nothing.
Some exotic battery of timed heat cycles, cooling off, more cycles, more cooling is hogwash.

The basic fact is that by slowly bringing the piston to size, and at a controlled rate, it's allowed mate to the cylinder wall properly where it can have a long life.

Smiley

Ported&Polished · Post by **Ported&Polished** » June 25th, 2007, 5:03 pm

That all sounds good. I put together a new top end out at Glamis a few months ago and did almost exactely what you mentioned. My bike is now totally ridable and screams at wot. I also think there are lots of good engine guys out there, and look forward to others letting me know who they think is the man. My engine was ported and bored by Allen Knowles owner of CT Racing in Socal. He has been doing this stuff for 25 years and has won many big races with his motors. Jerry Hall is well known as a great builder, but there are other dudes that rock as well.

rickyrcf · Post by **rickyrcf** » March 2nd, 2009, 10:43 am

WOW! A year and a half and no replys. I am close to assembling my engine from a complete and first (for me and the engine) rebuild.I am looking for all the ifo possible and this sounds, well, sound.
I just find it interesting that there are no comments/replys. I guess this must be The Way

Contributors so far

TTM Mike (good advice)
Roostius Maximus (decompressor)
Surf & Turf Racing (crank balancing, in progress)

asteroid500 · Post by **asteroid500** » March 31st, 2009, 7:14 am

i do much of the same.
i usually run in a 2troke in the same way and in 20-25 mins.
remember the....add extra oil to your fuel mix and what about the
It will take a full tank of juice riding at less then 1/2 throttle.
BULL SHIT...BULL SHIT

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » March 31st, 2009, 8:31 am

dude, I oil the crap out of everything at assembly, then ride it like I stole it. You want to flare rings out to help them seat. breakins are for pussies

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » June 26th, 2009, 7:57 am

"Flaring the rings out"? This would happen regardless of method given good machine work wouldn't it?

Why did the builder recommend richening the pilot after the first warm up not before?

CR500R7 · Post by **CR500R7** » June 26th, 2009, 1:43 pm

The first warm up as you put was not a warm up in his eyes.
It was a test fire to see if it would run and to check for leaks or any other PITA problems that may occur.
At which rate the engine was not running long enough to become hot enough to warrant the extra oil to lubricate and help cool the engine.
It was only when you got serious with the throttle that the larger pilot jet was introduced.
I found when something doesn't make sense, go back and read it again and again until you understand it, If you have read it 12 times and still don't understand, there are 2 possiblities.
1 you are a complete IDIOT.
2 the person who wrote it did not explain it very well.
Most times 2-3 reads will solve the confusion.

I hope this helps.

Post by **AlisoBob** » June 26th, 2009, 1:56 pm

CR500R7 wrote:I found when something doesn't make sense, go back and read it again and again until you understand it

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » June 26th, 2009, 2:23 pm

OK I read it again to make sure my head isn't in the sand. I don't get why you could start with the fat pilot from the get go as that the whole thing was just apart. Playing with brass ain't exactly good times for me, I hate dirt near my internals.

CR500R7 · Post by **CR500R7** » June 26th, 2009, 2:35 pm

The pilot jet thing is not a necessary thing, it is a safety measure.
When you spent money to rebuild your engine, the plan was not to F@#K it up as quick as you can.
He uses it to help keep things cool and well lube for a bigger safety margin during breakin period with serious throttle application.

I did not cover this as complete as I should of before I got sidetracked.

Bob caught it 2 posts down, thanks a bunch man.

Don't need to give bad or misleading advice.

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » June 26th, 2009, 2:50 pm

"At this point you should do two things... retorque the bolts and hoses, and put as large a pilot jet and the engine will take for your riding conditions."

try your suggestion

Post by **AlisoBob** » June 26th, 2009, 4:30 pm

When you chop the throttle and coast, there is MINIMAL air going to the engine.

MINIMAL air = MINIMAL lube.

Coasting downhill ( engine braking) is even worse.

A bigger pilot is a safety factor to keep it from squeeking.

I rarely hear of motors siezing while your on the throttle, I hear many siezing when chopping the throttle.

sugarshane · Post by **sugarshane** » January 13th, 2010, 7:46 pm

I live down in Phoenix and take my LT work to Jerry Hall. The man will stop what he is doing and take time to explain things to me when I ask. He has taken time to draw out almost everything on paper down to HP formulas to determine how to build engines for customers. Charges me less than other shop I have been to, and his work is def better. I was sold on his quality of work after taking one of my LT250R jugs to him that another shop butchered! the other shop messed up the hole that has the bolt that holds the power valve in place. They reamed the hole and installed a helicoil for $45. I tried installing the bolt and a big time no go. I took it to Jerry and pulled out this visor with a magnifyer looking thing and instantly told me that it looked like drilled it out with a post hole digger AND drilled it at an angle AND installed the wrong size coil AND even used a coarse standard one where a fine thread metric goes! Jerry removed the helicoil, tapped new threads, and had to machine a new bolt to fix it, installed the powervalve and locked it out for me for $40! My LT's with Jerry hall engines run awesome. Every bit of advice Jerry has given has worked great. Jerry would be my 1st and 2nd recommendations to anyone looking for work done. Not only because of his knowledge and reputation but also because he is timely and stands by his work and will go out of his way to ensure you are satisfied. Great guy!!! If anyone wants his number PM me and I will send it to you.

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » January 13th, 2010, 8:29 pm

i recomended jerry countless times but i dont think anyone listens. thing about him is he can do everything.... welding, make pipes, porting, machine work, dyno tuning, crank work. very very few shops out there know how to do everything.

sugarshane · Post by **sugarshane** » January 13th, 2010, 10:20 pm

100hp honda wrote:i recomended jerry countless times but i dont think anyone listens. thing about him is he can do everything.... welding, make pipes, porting, machine work, dyno tuning, crank work. very very few shops out there know how to do everything.

he actually took time to show me how he builds pipes and some of his experimental ones. He is the only shop that I know of that can do everything that he can. And the quality is outstanding no matter what he does. He definately takes pride in what he does.

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » January 14th, 2010, 8:45 am

so to get back on subject. Is there any danger in running the right size pilot after doing a good break in routine? IE WFO adn chopping the throttle.

asteroid500 · Post by **asteroid500** » January 14th, 2010, 7:33 pm

We run our water cooled Leophard and Rotax 125cc karts in (breakin)with Castor oil first (R30) then flush the motors to run on full synthetic (Motorex kart formula) this is the recomendation by most of the major kart motor builders in Australia.

I've never asked why?????

qkenuf4u · Post by **qkenuf4u** » September 16th, 2010, 4:01 pm

yes JERRY is a AWESOME MACHINIST/PERSON !!

he IS doing my CR500 motor work as we speak. sent it to him yesterday.....

Kuma · Post by **Kuma** » September 17th, 2010, 12:51 pm

asteroid500 wrote:We run our water cooled Leophard and Rotax 125cc karts in (breakin)with Castor oil first (R30) then flush the motors to run on full synthetic (Motorex kart formula) this is the recomendation by most of the major kart motor builders in Australia.

I've never asked why?????

It's always been my understanding that synthetic oil is too slick and will not allow propper ring break in.

On the other hand it sounds like if the rings don't need break in than it must be to asure the piston break in.

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » September 21st, 2010, 7:16 pm

qkenuf4u wrote:yes JERRY is a AWESOME MACHINIST/PERSON !!

if i was still in phoenix he would be doing my CR500 motor work.....

im gonna give ERIC GORR a go this time thru

last i heard eric had high school twits running the bore machine

. pretty sure jerry still does everything one at a time... himself

qkenuf4u · Post by **qkenuf4u** » September 21st, 2010, 11:16 pm

100hp honda wrote:
qkenuf4u wrote:yes JERRY is a AWESOME MACHINIST/PERSON !!

if i was still in phoenix he would be doing my CR500 motor work.....

im gonna give ERIC GORR a go this time thru
last i heard eric had high school twits running the bore machine . pretty sure jerry still does everything one at a time... himself

hmmm thats good to know..... with jerry its either him or his brother doing the work... might have to reconsider my selection...

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » September 22nd, 2010, 3:29 pm

i knew his brother was doing some work but figured it was the less technical stuff but wasnt for sure.

qkenuf4u · Post by **qkenuf4u** » September 22nd, 2010, 4:43 pm

100hp honda wrote:i knew his brother was doing some work but figured it was the less technical stuff but wasnt for sure.

hmmm not 100% sure myself.. i just figured since his brother worked for him then he knew how to do it correctly... thanks for the info on eric though.. ive heard/read nothing but good about eric but have never seen/used his work...
thanks
lance

qkenuf4u · Post by **qkenuf4u** » September 29th, 2010, 12:14 pm

qkenuf4u wrote:
100hp honda wrote:i knew his brother was doing some work but figured it was the less technical stuff but wasnt for sure.
hmmm not 100% sure myself.. i just figured since his brother worked for him then he knew how to do it correctly... thanks for the info on eric though.. ive heard/read nothing but good about eric but have never seen/used his work...
thanks
lance

jerry has my stuff as i type...

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » September 29th, 2010, 4:53 pm

cool. what is he doing ? supposedly he did some 93hp zilla. seen the dyno paper for whatever thats worth. suzuki sucks so i dont really care. just saying

BannedCR500Riders.com

Proper Initial Run In & Break In Proceedures

Proper Initial Run In & Break In Proceedures