My observations on the AF's

[Slow old Fart]

Like who cares ? We have built 5 of them. I have had a 2003 SH 250 CR 500 and a 2003 CRf450 conversion and a 2005 CRF 450 500 conversion.

I have been out of the loop for almost 3 years because I am getting old and slow but I think I can still muster up one more good crash in the future so I am making a come back. I bought a bunch of street bikes and I am getting tired of them so I should ride off road again to spice it up.

All these conversions are different and for some situations some of the chasses work better than others. If you are going to do one for a keeper you should ride all the chaases that are avaiable and decide.

I think probably the best overall performer is the 02 and newer CR 250 but I like the 02-04 CRF 450 for me because I am 6'5 and ride sugar sand where the slower steering first GEN CRF 450 shines once you add 20mm offsets.

MPS loves the chasses as well, it has better high speed manners than the CR 250 02 and newer as well as the CRF 05 + CRF 450 CRF250 and CR 125 but the guy I sold my SH to did not like the 2003 CRF 450 he had because he was 5'9 and liked the 250 CR chasses 2003 model I sold him. He said the CRF was a pig!

So before you build you need to ride and choose the right one for you!

[ISBB]

Ill take the pig.. i might be 5'11 but im a big boned effer and the 450 chasis has always fit me well.. even with that crap ass 450 motor in it lol

[dannygraves]

my gen-1 kicks ass, doesn't turn as well as a gen-3 250, but does great at high speeds and turns well in the sand!

[Slow old Fart]

my gen-1 kicks ass, doesn't turn as well as a gen-3 250, but does great at high speeds and turns well in the sand!

I don't want to hurt your feeling but I find those chasses to be terrifying in some situations.

[dannygraves]

hey man, theres no hurting my feelings! but I came from a clapped out '86 chassis, my gen-1 rides like a dream!!! HAHAHA

[AlisoBob]

I think probably the best overall performer is the 02 and newer CR 250 but I like the 02-04 CRF 450 for me because I am 6'5 and ride sugar sand where the slower steering first GEN CRF 450 shines once you add 20mm offsets.

Oh shit...its Moretorque...

[Slow old Fart]

Hey Bob you did the CR500 world a favor and put together a nice site. Armstumps site is way up to tight starting with the stumper himself!

So it was always Moretorques fault? nice to see you became a renegade and started standing behind the 1st amendment unlike that commie swine at the anal retentive site you got canned at for representing truth justice and the American way.

We need to get you a Superman set of tights to ride in!

[Ported&Polished]

Those are some interesting points. I have riden a gen 3 and a gen 4 250 cr500, the gen 4 was a service honda. Both were really good handling and alot of fun. I'm building a gen 3 and expect that it will be very fun. The regular cr500 I have is a 91, and I like the bike, but the A/F's are more ridable in the dunes and in the hardpack stuff I ride. It's like the difference between a longboard and a shortboard in fun waves. Yes the longboard is fun, but the shortboard is way more fun. Or the difference between skiing and snowboarding. Skiing is great, but snowboarding flat rules!

[Slow old Fart]

Those are some interesting points. I have riden a gen 3 and a gen 4 250 cr500, the gen 4 was a service honda. Both were really good handling and alot of fun. I'm building a gen 3 and expect that it will be very fun. The regular cr500 I have is a 91, and I like the bike, but the A/F's are more ridable in the dunes and in the hardpack stuff I ride. It's like the difference between a longboard and a shortboard in fun waves. Yes the longboard is fun, but the shortboard is way more fun. Or the difference between skiing and snowboarding. Skiing is great, but snowboarding flat rules!

i have been riding Cr 500's for over 20 years and still have not graduated so i am just stuck here in kindergarten. seems like I would have graduated to bigger and better toys but I am poor and like it that way makes life easier.

In my opinion I feel the 87 n 88 were the best dune bikes ( I hear they kick butt for ice racing to the chasses is real sure footed and slides real predictable }Honda ever made. The long chasses and the way the bike sits lower makes it to wear you can lean it over and speed shift through the gears and throw a wave of roost without the fear of highsiding. Great dune bike. I never really liked the 89 and newer chasses. It was like for off roading Honda's 87 n 88 was a good pro player and they traded that for a 2 mediocre college moto xers.

I felt the 89 and newer did everything ok except for the bad push up front but nothing great.

I built my new 05 CRF 500 3 years ago this month rode it one time and was really pissed off how it turned out and threw it in the garage and retired for a while. The front end was real unstable in sand compared to my 03 CRF 500 but I believe I should have it fixed. I talked to a guy at MX tech in Michigan ( Michigan has alot of sand tracks ) when I built it and he told me it was not me and the old CRF 450 chasses was a great sand bike and the 05 was skiddish upfront.

You have got to be really careful what you build. Each type of terrain and rider stature,ability likes something different to work best for you.

I saw a post at CR 500 commie where a guy built a 2006 CRF 450 CR 500 and did not like it. He was tall and riding in Texas, well Texas is usually wide open and fast as hell the redesign in 05 was to make the bike more of a super xer so not good + he was tall. He had a problem and did not like it and liked his old steelie better so that tells me he built the wrong one because if you build the right alumnum bike for you it's way better than a steelie but I do like a 87 n 88 better than any aluminum tub for duning GREAT bike for that.

[AlisoBob]

... for representing truth justice and the American way.

[Freemer]

Fart On

Shut your pie hole and ride

And stop the BS about all the crap you keep posting - it is an open opinionated FORUM - not a place to spooge out on

You have opinions - just like A holes everyone has one - try LIVING IT AND RIDING IT you got so many bikes in your stable post up some nice PICS of them all.

I have an '01 500 and I RIDE THE BITCHEN GLAMIS DUNES I got MORE HOURS IN THE SADDLE THAN YOUR SPOOGE POSTS COMMENT ON.

I rode the OLD Bike I still have one "in my stable" and it sucks.

Have you ever ridden GLAMIS because I never seen you there? I been going there since 1988....ran the Hills Comp and Olds never saw ya there


Smoke 'em don't joke it - maybe you are SLOW - that is too bad - 1986-1989 CR5's were crap hard to start beasts - you like it good you got pics of your endeavors post them or shut the F up.

You obviously have too much time on your hands so you write these literary coments but have no acutal saddle time on any bike. Heck my CR500 TRX500 quad prob. could smoke ya across the vast Glamis Dunes and not even on methanol (w/44mm Carb) cause it would make your world BROWN and I built that monster back in 1995.

Been riding 500s since 1984

PS I am not OLD or SLOW - keep up with me if you DARE

Did you Ride Anza Borrego/Johnson Valley/Gorman ?

Post your quests so you have some creedence here

what is this about "commies"? The Ruskies are NO THREAT TO THE GREATEST SUPER POWER THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN - AMERiCA

Freemer

1984/1985/1986/1987/2001 CR500s

[Slow old Fart]

Fart On

Shut your pie hole and ride

And stop the BS about all the crap you keep posting - it is an open opinionated FORUM - not a place to spooge out on

You have opinions - just like A holes everyone has one - try LIVING IT AND RIDING IT you got so many bikes in your stable post up some nice PICS of them all.

I have an '01 500 and I RIDE THE BITCHEN GLAMIS DUNES I got MORE HOURS IN THE SADDLE THAN YOUR SPOOGE POSTS COMMENT ON.

I rode the OLD Bike I still have one "in my stable" and it sucks.

Have you ever ridden GLAMIS because I never seen you there? I been going there since 1988....ran the Hills Comp and Olds never saw ya there


Smoke 'em don't joke it - maybe you are SLOW - that is too bad - 1986-1989 CR5's were crap hard to start beasts - you like it good you got pics of your endeavors post them or shut the F up.

You obviously have too much time on your hands so you write these literary coments but have no acutal saddle time on any bike. Heck my CR500 TRX500 quad prob. could smoke ya across the vast Glamis Dunes and not even on methanol (w/44mm Carb) cause it would make your world BROWN and I built that monster back in 1995.

Been riding 500s since 1984

PS I am not OLD or SLOW - keep up with me if you DARE

Did you Ride Anza Borrego/Johnson Valley/Gorman ?

Post your quests so you have some creedence here

what is this about "commies"? The Ruskies are NO THREAT TO THE GREATEST SUPER POWER THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN - AMERiCA

Freemer

1984/1985/1986/1987/2001 CR500s

You say this is a opinionated forum that is good because CR 500 commie is not that and has a central command agenda headed up by the Stalinist himself the old stumper!

Anybody who does not agree with central command 500 commie is immediately shipped off to Siberia to work in the gulags and never to be heard from again. And his KGB hench men that enforce the law are supreme with their efficiency to rid all opposition with a different opinion.

Yes my pie hole is opinionated and I have some information that could help people on this site. I was trying to add some info for people to try and choose the right 500 conversion. This is the Aluma tub section do you have any info to add? If you are on a steelie 2001 I suggest you leave your remarks in the 1950's 500 section because that is where they belong.

And by the way we defeated the commie's ? you live at commie central.

[dannygraves]

I have to agree with freemer on the '80's bikes in the dunes. The rake was good for a stable front end, but the suspension couldn't back it up, so much fork flex and spongey pogo stick rear shock makes it an exhausting bike to ride in the dunes. Even ask MFDB how much my dune riding has improved since I switched to a gen-1, which BTW I think is an excellent bike reguardless of your opinion (I'm not just saying that because I own one, I've ridden a lot of bikes and for the price of my conversion, it is a great bike).
But, it is nice to have a new opiniated hoon on the board, its nice to have something to debate about.

[Slow old Fart]

I have to agree with freemer on the '80's bikes in the dunes. The rake was good for a stable front end, but the suspension couldn't back it up, so much fork flex and spongey pogo stick rear shock makes it an exhausting bike to ride in the dunes. Even ask MFDB how much my dune riding has improved since I switched to a gen-1, which BTW I think is an excellent bike reguardless of your opinion (I'm not just saying that because I own one, I've ridden a lot of bikes and for the price of my conversion, it is a great bike).
But, it is nice to have a new opiniated hoon on the board, its nice to have something to debate about.

You have to redo the suspension stock a 87 was so soft and the forks do have trouble but you can update them. For moto the newer 500 is better because it has a tougher frame and a tougher suspension as well as bigger linkage bolts but the chasses has problems putting the power to the ground. I could power slide my 88 just like a KX 500 because the chasses is longer . I cannot do that on either of my Aluma tubs. They handle alot better but they do not slide as predictable no other 500 has I have riden besides a KX 500.

but alot of it has to do with your terrain that is why you have got to try all bikes correctly sprung for your weight. You cannot make a statement on how abike handles for you unless it is correctly set up for you and where you are riding.

My 97 for where I ride was a flop, that does not mean it will not work for someone else somewhere else. I am not brand loyal my opinion should carry weight with larger riders who like to sit and ride alot and only get up when the terrain gets rough. That is one of the reasons I like the GEN1 450 because it is a couch more comfortable than a steelie 500 in the seat ergo's for a tall rider.

He made the statement the early ones were hard to start, well yaa if you kick like a girl. The older ones were harder to start a little because compression was higher but the motors made more torque because of this so when you take a newer CR 500 and bump the compression back up in order to get the torque back they like to over heat because cooling capacity is down.

For the riding I did in my conditions I did not like the newer 500 although it is the most reliable 500 Honda ever made if you can keep it from overheating.

I did not like my 2003 conversion as well until I softened the ride with 98 RM 250 forks, the newer bikes are for serious moto heads who can ride and some chasses flex helps soften the ride for average joe's who are trying to ride for hours on end and not jump 200 ft every 10 seconds for 20 minutes. That is why i am starting to like KTM they are building products for Joe average in alot of way's. they are still promoting 2 smokes too.

As far as which 500 goes it is all opinion but Rick Johnson liked his 87 the best set up for him.

[dannygraves]

I did a lot of work with setup on my '86 to help in the sand, but that thing still sucked. I've ridden a few bikes in the sand and really like how my gen-1 performs in the sand. But it isn't that great on the trails, which is why I want to build a gen-3 or 4 for trail/track riding and keep my gen-1 strickly for the dunes.
as far as starting, the big deal with the '80s bikes was the allen wrench kicker, what a PITA. I've got a 250 kicker on an '86 motor with seriously bumped up compression rinning race gas. Its hard for even experienced 500 riders to start!

[ShanMan]

could it be......a kinder, gentler, more gramatically complete MT??? I dare say yes!!!

[AlisoBob]

Somebody got their G.E.D.

[Slow old Fart]

I did a lot of work with setup on my '86 to help in the sand, but that thing still sucked. I've ridden a few bikes in the sand and really like how my gen-1 performs in the sand. But it isn't that great on the trails, which is why I want to build a gen-3 or 4 for trail/track riding and keep my gen-1 strickly for the dunes.
as far as starting, the big deal with the '80s bikes was the allen wrench kicker, what a PITA. I've got a 250 kicker on an '86 motor with seriously bumped up compression rinning race gas. Its hard for even experienced 500 riders to start!

I have never had a problem starting 500's if they are set up right and you do the right kick drill. The 85 was supposed to be the worst but mine was 1 kick. The sand where you are may be different than here.

I will give you a idea how good some of the old bikes are. In 1994 Ronny Tiechner in Tarpon springs Forida won the alligator enduro or hair scarmbles forgot which one but in 1994 he could have any bike he wanted, do you know what he choose to win it on? a 1987 CR 250. Honda in 87 was way ahead of the times and in 88 Honda did not screw the 500 up like they did the 250. Honda actually went backwards in alot of way's after 87 in some handling issues and I feel they did not trully go forward in most regards until they introduced the 2002 CR 250. Now that was trully superior to the old school stuff but then again I still like the way I can power slide my 88 CR 500 over a aluma tube.

Dredge at the CR 500 commie rode a 98 conversion for years, It was the first Aluma tub I had riden. I got on it and tried it when I was tired so it was a good time to try it for the riding I try and do to see how a bike feels when I am whipped. well the first thing I noticed was how light feeling it was and how it steered much quicker but I immediately noticed how rough it rode in the rough terrain and really did not like that aspect of it at all. Those bikes are as stiff as a board the newer ones are better but still real stiff up front due to the frame design up front. I got back on my 88 ( my 97 had been retired to street duty) and then took off riding that and immediately noticed how much more forgiving the chasses was because of the flex.

Dredge did every update you can imagine 2003 CRf 450 forks and shock and the bike really rode good and it felt lighter than my 2003 CRF 450 500 conversion but the front end would not hold a line right at all and was not planted just like my 97 500 steelie. The bike had little sure footedness up front and was hard to get a line on other than that it was good but for the kind of riding he did it hurt him. He finally went to the next level but it was after he built a 03 CR250 500 and his riding improvment finally admitted the 98 had issues up front even though he would not.

It was his baby and he would not come to accept it had issues until he built the gen 3 250 but just the other day he said he like his 98 conversion for open higher speed stuff because the gen 3 250 is not as stable. Some of the pro's were lengthening the swing arm on the gen3 250 to add stabilty to it but there goes your turning. It is all trade off's, that is why I like the Gen 1 450 for me it does not lay in a turn as well as either the 98 or 2003 250 and feels a little heavier but it has good high speed chacteristics and once you put 20mm offsets on it it handle's and turn like on rails but it is slower steering but real surefooted. For some reason the clamps help alot the bike was way to slow steering stock and wanted to go straight when you wanted to turn without them.

[2weelz]

Enough with the novels already.

[AlisoBob]

I like em'!

[ShanMan]

me too...lots of good info in there.

[BIGGDAD]

me too...lots of good info in there.

AS A NOOBIE(TO THE AF/AFC CONVERSION PROCESS) THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF INFO/OPINION THAT I'M LOOKING FOR. THANKS.

[Slow old Fart]

Thanks I appreciate that but Bob and some of these other guy's know what a ass I am and he will probably be forced to hit the ejection button eventually.

Bob when you decide to hit it just hit it! don't be a fool and play around, what happens when you play around with James Bond ? and do not kill him at first sighting? Your plans for world domination go up in smoke and he destroys your multi million $ secret hideout thats what happens!

I wonder how Larry's site would have faired if he would have just hit the ejection button a little earlier? his sight may have still been top dog in CR 500 cyberspace but he did not and his cyberspace hangout was destroyed, oh well................

[britincali]

Being an ass is fine by me

[AlisoBob]

Thanks I appreciate that but Bob and some of these other guy's know what a ass I am and he will probably be forced to hit the ejection button eventually.

Scott, just keep it about 2 notches lower than pinned, and you be ah' right here...