VHM Crankshaft

[MalW]

I have contacted VHM who produce billet crankshafts used by teams at the highest level of motosport, Motocross and Moto GP
I enquired with them about a Custom crankshaft for the CR500, and they will do it but will need to supply the specs, probably easier to send one over to them.
When they get the spec they will let me know the cost for a Minimum order quantity of 10 so far i have homes for 2 of them.
http://www.vhm.nl/

[Pantheramotorsports]

Hi MalW,

At panthera motorsports, we already make custom crankshafts for CR500. We have no minimum order.
Check it out

http://www.pantheramotorsports.com/prod ... dbae4e0c99

[MalW]

The Panthera look like a nice product visually, my concern so far has been lack of detail in the information:
heat Treatment / stress relieving before final grinding, tolerance machining / hardening etc.
I see screws in the sides, I hope that they cannot come out??

[Pantheramotorsports]

VHM have screws on their crank too.

The tolerences of our machining allows a perfect replacement of any CR500 cranks. That is the only thing we need to share. If we were sharing avery drawings and heat treat details of our product, we would not stay in business for long.

We have some cranks running in some kart engines with over 100hp and 12 000 rpm on it and they run strong.

[MalW]

No of course there is no need to share anything.
the information is so vauge, no information on different strokes and affect on build.
heat treatment and or hardening and tempering is no secret either it is or it isnt.
based on the non information it is quite possibly made from non heat treated 1045

[Rhino89523]

I don't know a lot about cranks but I know a lot about dealing with Panthera and the quality of the parts I have been provided. Panthera sends out nothing but the highest quality pieces and stands behind their products 100%. The customer service I have received has been the best I have ever been provided on anything I have ever purchased period. I am maybe not the sharpest tool in the shed and have been helped through every step of my electric start install, all of my emails have been answered in a timely fashion and every question answered. The gears on the electric start kit are hardened and every piece of the kit well thought out so I can't imagine it would be any different with any of their other parts. I have recieved such great customer service from Panthera that I almost take the attempt to smear their reputation personal.

I believe Panthera's 1st language is French so at times some things may get lost in translation or come off a little different just as my attempt to speak French would if we were playing the game in reverse.

I don't have a Panthera crank, I do have a couple electric start kits and can vouch for those. There are guys that are running the Panthera crank and are very happy with the results, quality, and reliability.......is that not enough???

Support Panthera if you want someone to continue to support 500's and aftermarket parts for these bikes...nobody else is doing it.

[MalW]

Rhino, I think that you have missed the point.
Firstly, This post is about VHM Crankshafts, not Panthera or Hot Rods and it is obvious that no one on this site is interested in the VHM, so be it!
Secondly, I have made no attemp to smear the reputation of anyone, what I have stated is plain fact and that is, that information available on the pantera site regarding their crankshaft and its manufacturing / quality is minimal, for comparision you should check the VHM Website.
http://www.vhm.nl/?navi=crankshafts.
Thirdly, I see all over this site, people wanting the facts, Dyno Results real proof etc and I cannot blame anyone for wanting facts in order to make a choice.
The fact that you possibly feel the need to take it personally (that I also want facts) is your choice.
But for me and based on the information available I can not see why I would part with my hard earned $$ and choose to buy one of these very expensive items, something I basically know nothing about except that is is machined and that it fits!

[Rhino89523]

No of course there is no need to share anything.
the information is so vauge, no information on different strokes and affect on build.
heat treatment and or hardening and tempering is no secret either it is or it isnt.
based on the non information it is quite possibly made from non heat treated 1045

This looked like a smear...If I am wrong in your words "so be it"

I looked at the VHM website and it simply states "VHM crankshafts are made of high quality steel which had a heat treatment" it doesn't state what that treatment is or how the steel is treated through the machining process to insure the heat treatment remains unchanged. It is inferred by the use of the word "Had" that the steel is treated pre-machining. I don't shoot at AR500 steel that was cut with a plasma cutter because it completely changes the metallurgy. If any welding or machining added significant heat to the pre treated piece of metal it would need to be re treated to retain the same properties. so using your logic of "based on non information" I will assume the steel had a torch waved over it once for heat treatment and completely lost that property because no coolant was used in the CNC machining process, I will also assume based on non information that after all the heat was added to the edges it was then quenched leaving a piece of metal with dangerously brittle edges from all the heat applied through the machining processes. Based on the complete lack of information about their machining and heat treatment process there is no way I would spend my hard earned money with VHM....see how silly this is.

The fact is heat treatment is not an either it is or it isn't, there are so many levels of treatment including starting out with a treated piece of metal and there are a million ways to screw up that rating through the build.

I compared websites

VHM says a bunch of people use their stuff
it's CNC machined
they make some different weights
it's heat treated

Panthera says it's CNC machined
they adjust the weight to desired results and weight of things like piston and rod
they attach some charts that show how they analised the metal treatments needed to build a crank to hold up to the intended use.

So very different


Panthera also shows a clearer picture of their crank instead of some little thing you have to expand that gets grainy when expanded to blur detail.

I think VHM probably makes a great product but the website isn't exactly the super seller you had me inspect for comparison. I am a visual person like most men and I think Panthera has better pictures that show their quality.

I live in Nevada, I don't know anyone at Panthera or VHM both companies are thousands of miles from my house. I enjoy some of the products Panthera has brought to the market for the CR500 and I took your post as a smear. I have been riding CR500's since 1986 and I have not seen anything new come along for these bikes in like 20 years. I have been excited by some of the things Panthera has made and they have completly changed the game for me. I have 500's with killer lights now, electric start, my snow bike has heated grips!!! All of this was made possible by Panthera and a snowbike without heated grips and electric start would suck so I would have probably been riding something else. For this reason I show gratitude towards Panthera and stand in their corner in support. I think if you reread your posts you will see your tone is easily interpreted as smear.

For the record I am not really trying to smear VHM and I am sure they make excellent cranks, I was simply applying the same logic to them as was applied to Panthera. I don't own a VHM crank so I can't endorse, I do own Panthera products and fully endorse.

Matt

[sabreguy]

I have no dog in this show ( I'm not in the market for a crankshaft nor have I done business with either company), but I'm with Rhino on this one I looked at VHM site and didn't see anything that impressed me enough to go buy a crank matter of fact it sounds like all they know is 125cc. Panthera site is slightly better IMO at least they already have a crank in production.

Just my

[Pantheramotorsports]

We asked to the outlaw kart guys lately to comment on the quality of the cranks. They confirmed us that no oem or hotrod cranks are near as strong as ours.

Some of our crank have been running through 15 races and 2000 laps this year and they are still running strong. When we asked them what is the reference life time for the other cranks, they confirm us that in their application, at over 10 000rpm and 200 psi, hotrods usually barely get to 200 laps.

Up to now, our results speak for themselves.