BannedCR500Riders.com

I was just thinking: Do you suppose that 4-stroke race motors will keep improving to the point that they will be as durable as, an XR400?

No.

I agree. Race motors are race motors and always subject to failure.

One thing I did notice, about a year ago I rode a 2010 YZ450F and the engine braking was the same as my 94 cr250. I was impressed with that but not enough to buy one.

Ok. I'm putting many hours on my CR500 "race" engine without failure. More than the manual recommends.


Would a CRF450 motor last longer if the rev limiter was lowered to about 9,000-10,000rpms?

I'm assuming that graph is for a 450 4-stroke? If we're going by the blue line, then cutting out at 9K works great! The red line would be losing about 5hp though

I could probably make some money selling detuned 450's with 1-year warranties...

Define a race cr500 motor. Most everything out there is what I would call modified stock. There are few and far between that push the limits of mechanical and material fatigue.

Too many moving parts inside a 4-stroke.....Brands aside team green dominated baja for almost a decade with their kx500 and being as close to the team as I was for all those years I can tell you that sometimes their motors were alot closer to stock than you would think.....In 1992 Honda took their xr600 and punched her out to a 680 just to keep up with the 2 stroke 500 and its 120mph plus top speed.....however that bike never finished the race because around mile marker 300 or so the motor ate itself to death. I remember Dan Ashcraft and all the Honda boys begging Honda to let them race the CR500.....Honda said no, that they wanted to promote the CR as a MX bike and the XR as an off road bike.....Bad choice.

USMC 500 wrote:Too many moving parts inside a 4-stroke.....Brands aside team green dominated baja for almost a decade with their kx500 and being as close to the team as I was for all those years I can tell you that sometimes their motors were alot closer to stock than you would think.....In 1992 Honda took their xr600 and punched her out to a 680 just to keep up with the 2 stroke 500 and its 120mph plus top speed.....however that bike never finished the race because around mile marker 300 or so the motor ate itself to death. I remember Dan Ashcraft and all the Honda boys begging Honda to let them race the CR500.....Honda said no, that they wanted to promote the CR as a MX bike and the XR as an off road bike.....Bad choice.

I may be mistaken, and probably am, but I think the late Al Baker rode XR's in the Baja races. Of course, that was a very long time ago and the TT500, CCM and XR's were a novelty.

B440 wrote:I was just thinking: Do you suppose that 4-stroke race motors will keep improving to the point that they will be as durable as, an XR400?

No way. Far too many moving parts. The metallurgy currently utilized is borderline state of the art, for a motorcycle, and even it is subject to failure.

sky6709 wrote:

USMC 500 wrote:Too many moving parts inside a 4-stroke.....Brands aside team green dominated baja for almost a decade with their kx500 and being as close to the team as I was for all those years I can tell you that sometimes their motors were alot closer to stock than you would think.....In 1992 Honda took their xr600 and punched her out to a 680 just to keep up with the 2 stroke 500 and its 120mph plus top speed.....however that bike never finished the race because around mile marker 300 or so the motor ate itself to death. I remember Dan Ashcraft and all the Honda boys begging Honda to let them race the CR500.....Honda said no, that they wanted to promote the CR as a MX bike and the XR as an off road bike.....Bad choice.

I may be mistaken, and probably am, but I think the late Al Baker rode XR's in the Baja races. Of course, that was a very long time ago and the TT500, CCM and XR's were a novelty.

Al Baker, Dan Ashcraft, Bruce Ogilvie, Chuck Miller to name a few....Honda's last victory in Baja was in 87.....Team Green showed up in 88 and dominated until they pulled out of racing at the end of 96.....In 97 Johnny Campell and Tim Stabb began the Honda win streak again with the XR600 then the XR650 and then the CRF450 when it came out.

I'm pathetic for knowin this shit dude.........

I see your in Bakes....I'm in Tehachapi....Where do you go riding?

USMC 500 wrote:

sky6709 wrote:

USMC 500 wrote:Too many moving parts inside a 4-stroke.....Brands aside team green dominated baja for almost a decade with their kx500 and being as close to the team as I was for all those years I can tell you that sometimes their motors were alot closer to stock than you would think.....In 1992 Honda took their xr600 and punched her out to a 680 just to keep up with the 2 stroke 500 and its 120mph plus top speed.....however that bike never finished the race because around mile marker 300 or so the motor ate itself to death. I remember Dan Ashcraft and all the Honda boys begging Honda to let them race the CR500.....Honda said no, that they wanted to promote the CR as a MX bike and the XR as an off road bike.....Bad choice.

I may be mistaken, and probably am, but I think the late Al Baker rode XR's in the Baja races. Of course, that was a very long time ago and the TT500, CCM and XR's were a novelty.

Al Baker, Dan Ashcraft, Bruce Ogilvie, Chuck Miller to name a few....Honda's last victory in Baja was in 87.....Team Green showed up in 88 and dominated until they pulled out of racing at the end of 96.....In 97 Johnny Campell and Tim Stabb began the Honda win streak again with the XR600 then the XR650 and then the CRF450 when it came out.

I'm pathetic for knowin this shit dude.........

I see your in Bakes....I'm in Tehachapi....Where do you go riding?

Not pathetic at all. I've been away from the sport for quite some time. I'm relying on memory. Like yourself, I remember a lot of things from the 70s,but probably shouldn't. lol I haven't started riding just yet. My bike is in pieces, but I'm working on it. Where do you ride in Tehachapi?

sky6709 wrote:

USMC 500 wrote:

sky6709 wrote: I may be mistaken, and probably am, but I think the late Al Baker rode XR's in the Baja races. Of course, that was a very long time ago and the TT500, CCM and XR's were a novelty.

Al Baker, Dan Ashcraft, Bruce Ogilvie, Chuck Miller to name a few....Honda's last victory in Baja was in 87.....Team Green showed up in 88 and dominated until they pulled out of racing at the end of 96.....In 97 Johnny Campell and Tim Stabb began the Honda win streak again with the XR600 then the XR650 and then the CRF450 when it came out.

I'm pathetic for knowin this shit dude.........

I see your in Bakes....I'm in Tehachapi....Where do you go riding?

Not pathetic at all. I've been away from the sport for quite some time. I'm relying on memory. Like yourself, I remember a lot of things from the 70s,but probably shouldn't. lol I haven't started riding just yet. My bike is in pieces, but I'm working on it. Where do you ride in Tehachapi?

Nowhere really in Tehachapi to ride.....locals don't like it if you ride around here any faster than a walking pace.....I usually head up the grapvine to Gorman or 20 minutes down the mountain from me I have Mojave, and another 30 min north of that I have dove springs, jaw bone......we got some variety around here brother. Let me know when she's put together and we'll go hit up some trails.

I use to spend my summers in Keene.

AlisoBob wrote:I use to spend my summers in Keene.

There is a twisty road that goes from Tehachapi to Keene.....I ride my R1 track bike through there all the time and grab a bite to eat at the Keene Cafe.....good times.

From the store, look west across the empty field towards the Fire Station. The house your looking at is the house I stayed in.......

AlisoBob wrote:From the store, look west across the empty field towards the Fire Station. The house your looking at is the house I stayed in.......

Next to the Helocopter landing pad......good stuff Bob!!

AlisoBob wrote:From the store, look west across the empty field towards the Fire Station. The house your looking at is the house I stayed in.......

Were you good friends with Caesar Chavez? lol

USMC 500 wrote:

sky6709 wrote:

USMC 500 wrote: Al Baker, Dan Ashcraft, Bruce Ogilvie, Chuck Miller to name a few....Honda's last victory in Baja was in 87.....Team Green showed up in 88 and dominated until they pulled out of racing at the end of 96.....In 97 Johnny Campell and Tim Stabb began the Honda win streak again with the XR600 then the XR650 and then the CRF450 when it came out.

I'm pathetic for knowin this shit dude.........

I see your in Bakes....I'm in Tehachapi....Where do you go riding?

Not pathetic at all. I've been away from the sport for quite some time. I'm relying on memory. Like yourself, I remember a lot of things from the 70s,but probably shouldn't. lol I haven't started riding just yet. My bike is in pieces, but I'm working on it. Where do you ride in Tehachapi?

Nowhere really in Tehachapi to ride.....locals don't like it if you ride around here any faster than a walking pace.....I usually head up the grapvine to Gorman or 20 minutes down the mountain from me I have Mojave, and another 30 min north of that I have dove springs, jaw bone......we got some variety around here brother. Let me know when she's put together and we'll go hit up some trails.

That's what I thought. Most of the property up there is private and the locals are a bunch of fuckin' whiners. California City sure has become a popular place to go. I built a few houses out there, during the building boom. You can ride around Bakersfield, but you have to be an irreverent asshole like me and just not care if it's private or not.

sky6709 wrote:

AlisoBob wrote:From the store, look west across the empty field towards the Fire Station. The house your looking at is the house I stayed in.......

Were you good friends with Caesar Chavez? lol

Of coure I know Chavez......that boxer dude right?....lolll!!

USMC 500 wrote:

sky6709 wrote:

AlisoBob wrote:From the store, look west across the empty field towards the Fire Station. The house your looking at is the house I stayed in.......

Were you good friends with Caesar Chavez? lol

Of coure I know Chavez......that boxer dude right?....lolll!!

Probably not the same one,but the guy I'm thinking about certainly deserved a fist sandwich.

Do you suppose that 4-stroke race motors will keep improving to the point that they will be as durable as, an XR400?

they have been refined for ever, and have reached a peak, what else can they do? beryllium pistons or MMCS con rod


2 strokes theres still a huge amount of potential waiting to get developed, not just exotic (and expensive) materials
direct injection without a throttle body being the big one

2strokeforever wrote: 2 strokes theres still a huge amount of potential waiting to get developed, not just exotic (and expensive) materials
direct injection without a throttle body being the big one

This is correct. Now if they can get the politics out of the way, maybe some progress can be made.