BannedCR500Riders.com

That is not the case, you are way off base on this. At least be accurate in your description. The big girl is the # 1 97 - 99 CR 250 PIG but a descent off road mount. That is a big bike but it fels light but does not TRACK worth a dam where I am at. # 2 the CR 250 2000 - 2001 and the CRF 450 2002 - 2004 are about the same but a CRf is more of a outdoor bike and is more stable up front when correctly set up. # 3 the gen 3 250 is the best overall package but it is not as light feeling or as narrow up top as a Gen 4 450 or 250.

I know a gen 4 is superior to a gen 3 in some ways because right when the gen 4 came out Frank Thomas told me I had to have it and in alot of ways it was better than either of the gen 3's.

He was hinting that it was lighter feeling and went through the whoops alot better and steered tighter but this is hear say because I only rode mine for 4 tanks of gas and put it away.

Even AJ say's it is slightly better than a gen 3 250 that is probably because they sell it however.

In some way's I do not believe you because of the statements you make. For wide open higher speed stuff I know my gen 3 450 is superior to a gen 3 250.

That is why I have 2 personnal af's one for this and one for that. I built a gen 4 because everybody said it was a vast improvment over any of the gen 3's so I did it then I found out the steering was kicked in to much for sugar sand and the bike needs stability and has a slight push.

If you are in a area where you do not have the problems that come from the head angle being to steep which can be leathal on a 500 a gen 4 has alot of pluses over any other conversion.

i figured out what the problem was immediately when I talked to Frank Thomas about my gen 4 conversion. He said on the gen 3's they were running 16 and 18 mm offset and on the gen 4 they only had to run 20 and 22. I immediately new in order to get the bike more stable up front I was going to have to run the old style fork with stock triples.

It still may not be fixed and if I cannot fix it I will then get a gen 3 250 but even thougha the 4 is the way to go if you can make it work the conversion is that clean!

A hottie in what way??? because it dam sure is not more agile than a gen 4 as you are trying to promote!

Mike you are welcome to ride my poor old Gen1 for a reference point if you ever get to Missouri

Exnav wrote:Mike you are welcome to ride my poor old Gen1 for a reference point if you ever get to Missouri

He can stir the pot all he want's , I want to know how many he has built because it sounds like just the one by the way. which is great I have never built any so he has one up on me, I just send it out.

But please explain you reasoning because people who know are going to ask ?'s!

All GEN3 CR 2 strokes have at least a 20mm offset mine has a 24mm offset and the new ones are now 24mm. I have seven bikes in the works right now 125's 250 and 2 450's but what does that matter regarding my opinion or how many you've built and I know you haven't ridden mine. My bike vibrates half as much as the 07 SH conversion we tested with. Anyone with any sense knows a 450 isn't more agile than 125 for damn sure and yes a 450 has more straight line stability and comfort that is not the definition of agile. As for a production bike again my opinion off the show room floor nothing is better than a new CR250R 2 stroke. I am not promoting it's my opinion.

teemtrubble wrote:All GEN3 CR 2 strokes have at least a 20mm offset mine has a 24mm offset and the new ones are now 24mm. I have seven bikes in the works right now 125's 250 and 2 450's but what does that matter regarding my opinion or how many you've built and I know you haven't ridden mine. My bike vibrates half as much as the 07 SH conversion we tested with. Anyone with any sense knows a 450 isn't more agile than 125 for damn sure and yes a 450 has more straight line stability and comfort that is not the definition of agile. As for a production bike again my opinion off the show room floor nothing is better than a new CR250R 2 stroke. I am not promoting it's my opinion.

The reason a 125 is so agile is because it has a 125 motor in it, the chasses has very little to do with it. It is the GYRO created by the crank.

In order to do a correct comparison you must ride all conversions with CR 500 motors in them back to back or close to that. If you take a gen 1 450 and put a 125 motor in it it will handle alot like a 125 and be more agile than a 250.

I new you had limited experience in this which is fine. There are other variables that could make yours vibrate less better crank alignment for one.

Honda's quality has been going down quick it would not suprise me if they were doing crack on the job these days and cannot press a crank together somewhat true.

Yes yours is made alot better but you must understand the variables in this.

Dwayne the stud Jones found Service Honda was using aluminum spacers in there old conversions on the swing arm pivot and this created vibration quick.

Once you do all the conversions ride and test them with different riders. Then you are going to see there is really not one trully better than the other it all application dependent. If I am not mistaken a 125 your year has a 2 degree slightly steeper head angle? It probably handles alot like a GEN 4 I would think and I do not like that to skiddish for where I am.

Crank enertia and a longer wheel base is going to make you feel heavier but will go straighter, all trade off's!

Slow old Fart wrote:

teemtrubble wrote:All GEN3 CR 2 strokes have at least a 20mm offset mine has a 24mm offset and the new ones are now 24mm. I have seven bikes in the works right now 125's 250 and 2 450's but what does that matter regarding my opinion or how many you've built and I know you haven't ridden mine. My bike vibrates half as much as the 07 SH conversion we tested with. Anyone with any sense knows a 450 isn't more agile than 125 for damn sure and yes a 450 has more straight line stability and comfort that is not the definition of agile. As for a production bike again my opinion off the show room floor nothing is better than a new CR250R 2 stroke. I am not promoting it's my opinion.

The reason a 125 is so agile is because it has a 125 motor in it, the chasses has very little to do with it. It is the GYRO created by the crank.

In order to do a correct comparison you must ride all conversions with CR 500 motors in them back to back or close to that. If you take a gen 1 450 and put a 125 motor in it it will handle alot like a 125 and be more agile than a 250.

I new you had limited experience in this which is fine. There are other variables that could make yours vibrate less better crank alignment for one.

Honda's quality has been going down quick it would not suprise me if they were doing crack on the job these days and cannot press a crank together somewhat true.

Yes yours is made alot better but you must understand the variables in this.

Dwayne the stud Jones found Service Honda was using aluminum spacers in there old conversions on the swing arm pivot and this created vibration quick.

Once you do all the conversions ride and test them with different riders. Then you are going to see there is really not one trully better than the other it all application dependent. If I am not mistaken a 125 your year has a 2 degree slightly steeper head angle? It probably handles alot like a GEN 4 I would think and I do not like that to skiddish for where I am.

Crank enertia and a longer wheel base is going to make you feel heavier but will go straighter, all trade off's!

THAT'S IT I"M PISSED NOW! I SPENT ALOT OF MONEY SMOKING CRACK AND NOBODY BOUGHT SHIT FROM ME!

I totally agree they are all trade off's! but damn if I would have known I'd still be smoking crack! Prison just scerws up my social life...

teemtrubble wrote:Robert you'd only do that so you'd have something to ride until you got your airboot! just kidding Thanks

No Mike, I like your work and, hey, what could one more bike hurt? Oh, nevermind, I forgot about my marital status. Homeless with two bikes doesn't work for me.

The work you do is very impressive and first rate,who ever you build these for they ought to let you keep'em a month or so so you can test em and really make the best AF's ever for what people want.

Thanks Slow! I can call you but if you don't answer the phone what good is your number!

Sell the SH to "Slow" buy a house and with the money you save fly out here we'll ride for a month and she can always come visit!

Just kidding... Unless you want to

teemtrubble wrote:
Billy I thought you didn't want a conversion anymore? but, Thanks.

Well, if you gave me one, I'd race it!

No 4-stroke made has a chassis that handles like a 2-stroke, none! The RMZ is the closest. But, even it isn't quite as agile in the turns. 4-stroke chassis's are made BIGGER to make room for the BIGGER, heavier engine 4-stroke engines. This is why they also tend to feel top-heavy.

Its funny, but everytime AJ post a picture of a personal bike of his, they are always Gen.3 based bikes. Now, I could be wrong, but I've never seen him post a pic of a Gen.4 based AF that is his personal bike.

Now, keep in mind I ride tracks. I personally don't care about trailriding, so my bikes aren't set-up for it. So, my opinion is only based on MX. And I find the Gen. 3 superior. And to be perfectly honest, I prefer an RM250 chassis to all others. So somebody put a CR500 engine into one already!

This is good reading, and I never saw a post like this on the other board. When is the cage match between Teem and SOF?

Ported&Polished wrote:This is good reading, and I never saw a post like this on the other board. When is the cage match between Teem and SOF?

If SOF doesnt sit on him, Mike has a half decent chance , winning on a split decision.

mxracr121 wrote:
Its funny, but everytime AJ post a picture of a personal bike of his, they are always Gen.3 based bikes.

100% true!

Good one, Billy!

http://www.bannedcr500riders.com/board/ ... hp?p=21792

More imput on the CR/ CRF debate!

AlisoBob wrote:http://www.bannedcr500riders.com/board/ ... hp?p=21792

More imput on the CR/ CRF debate!

He hit it on the head he is 5'7 and the guy I sold my AF to was 5'10 most of the pro's who race and are fast are smaller so over all for most as I stated it is the best package.

Shorter guy's with short leg's however more than likely do not realize the stability problem at high speeds in rough terrain. Not all of them but alot of them are not as fast as taller guy's in rough terrain going straight because they cannot get their ass over the fender to test how good it goes in straight line over torn up terrain. That is why some people were lengthening the swing arm because they do not want tto wheelie that easy and go straighter.

Jack Told me he preferred his 98 for open fast riding in stability over his 03 CR 250 500 but he rides mostly real tight stuff and he cannot believe how much better it is over any 500 he has ridden in those conditions.

A 02 CRF updated is not quite a 04 450 but sorta close, a 05 250 is a bit better than a 02 CRF 450 if I am not mistaken better swing arm , much better forks and other small changes.

I should talk to the guy who bought my Service Honda, he sold it and bought a new CRF 250R 500 conversion from SH. I wiil see if I can look him up.

I ran into my old SH bike about 2 years ago and the guy who was riding it told me he got it from the guy I sold it to and the guy I sold it to had just gotten the newer gen 4.

When I sold it to him I hooked him up with Frank Thomas for the suspension work and it had his suspension and the guy who bought it said it was GREAT and his freind who was there with him had a new SH $10,000 white LE limited 125 500 and it had the MX tech setup and he said it was a mess and the 500 his partner had that was my old 500 was way better handling so I guess setup suspension wise has alot to do with weather you like the bike or not.

On suspension I believe in local people who know your type terrain, I am sure MX tech is good but this bike was not working for him at all. He could not believe how good my old SH bike worked and how bad his LE 125 was but both of them felt the suspension was not right for FL sand riding.

AlisoBob wrote:

mxracr121 wrote:
Its funny, but everytime AJ post a picture of a personal bike of his, they are always Gen.3 based bikes.

100% true!

Good one, Billy!

AJ I believe is a smaller guy as well ?

Slow old Fart wrote:[ On suspension I believe in local people who know your type terrain, I am sure MX tech is good but this bike was not working for him at all. He could not believe how good my old SH bike worked and how bad his LE 125 was but both of them felt the suspension was not right for FL sand riding.

Yup...

so after reading all of this i think i am leaning towards a 2002 cr125/500 conversion. for the reason of having a green sticker here in cali. how easy is this conversion. anything i should know before hand? thanks to everyone for the help.

motorider wrote:so after reading all of this i think i am leaning towards a 2002 cr125/500 conversion. for the reason of having a green sticker here in cali. how easy is this conversion. anything i should know before hand? thanks to everyone for the help.

Hey were not done yett buddy butt out!

motorider wrote: how easy is this conversion.

Its not.

If you dont have fab experience , or the tooling.... Teem Trouble is only a UPS truck away.

mxracr121 wrote:No 4-stroke made has a chassis that handles like a 2-stroke, none! The RMZ is the closest. But, even it isn't quite as agile in the turns. 4-stroke chassis's are made BIGGER to make room for the BIGGER, heavier engine 4-stroke engines. This is why they also tend to feel top-heavy.

Its funny, but everytime AJ post a picture of a personal bike of his, they are always Gen.3 based bikes. Now, I could be wrong, but I've never seen him post a pic of a Gen.4 based AF that is his personal bike.

Now, keep in mind I ride tracks. I personally don't care about trailriding, so my bikes aren't set-up for it. So, my opinion is only based on MX. And I find the Gen. 3 superior. And to be perfectly honest, I prefer an RM250 chassis to all others. So somebody put a CR500 engine into one already!

BS BS BS, my freind down the rode who has a 2004 CRF 450 and 2005 RMZ 450 just bought a 2007 CRF 450 because the other 2 were like trucks compared to the new gen 4 07 CRF 450 when throwing it around.

The gen 4 frame is the most delicate of all the frames including the CR 250 gen 3. I have had all of them side by side and looked them over. NO BS !

The problem with the gen 4 is it has steering issues in some situations. The frame is more agile than any gen 3 2 stroke or 4 stroke. POO Poo with a capital P !

motorider wrote:so after reading all of this i think i am leaning towards a 2002 cr125/500 conversion. for the reason of having a green sticker here in cali. how easy is this conversion. anything i should know before hand? thanks to everyone for the help.

Shoot me an email to mike@fachar-sons.com and I'll answer any questions you have.

Slow old Fart wrote:[quote

:

The problem with the gen 4 is it has steering issues in some situations. quote]

Um, yeah, its that exact steering issue that makes them not as good, duh! And I pointed that out many reponses ago.

For the record I'm 6'3, and prefer the Gen.3 hands down. I can see how you would prefer the CRF, it is a little more spread out. I have no problems with the ergo's on the CRF's. I have a problem with the feel (pushing) in turns.

And your freinds RMZ must not have been set-up very well. Sag set correctly, proper spring rate etc. Anyway, also a persons riding level will make a big difference as well. I'm a Intermediate level MX'er (in AZ. thats one below Pro), and I'll take some headshake etc, over high speed stability anyday.

To each there own. I'm done debating.

Looks like it's a tag team match now, but who is gonna be BFI's partner? I mean SOF.