My observations on the AF's

[Hellbear]

Yeah it sucks when you think you are hauling ass and somebody on an CR85 blows by you.

Fixed



Desto is a friggin animal!!!!!

So where were you last weekend Brit? I thought you were comming by the ranch. Afraid I would roost you with to much horse shit?

[britincali]

Nah I got couch locked

[Hellbear]

Doh!

[Freemer]

Your observations are crap you haven't post pics - who knows what you are about you never been to GLAMIS ever else I would wooped your ass there- on GAS

You built what? a shitty rep - you got banned form the other site so you run here to sell your spooge - well we are not idiots like you are - and you said "we built - do you have a turd in your pocket? "we" who is we you A hole

Got any pics of your nice bikes - not just a lotta spooge cause you are too F'd UP to really ride - I campaigned GLAMIS the HiLL all the shit on ALKY what did you do - spoogemaster Gerneral - NADA - never ran against your ass I ran against the best mag bikes out there what did you do ?


Never seen ya never will all you got is talk and NO GAME

Shut your PIE HOLE AND RIDE

[britincali]

[Hellbear]

Your observations are crap you haven't post pics - who knows what you are about you never been tio GLAMIS ever else I would wooped your ass there- on GAS

Who gives a rats ass.

[Slow old Fart]

Your observations are crap you haven't post pics - who knows what you are about you never been tio GLAMIS ever else I would wooped your ass there- on GAS

You built what? a shitty rep - you got baaned form the other site so you run here to sell your sppoge - well we are not idiots like you are - and you said "we built: do you have a turd in your pocket? "we" who is we you A hole

Got any pics of your nice bikes - not just a lotta spooge cause you are too F'd UP to really ride - I campaigned GLAMIS the HiLL all the shit on ALKY what did you do - spoogemaster Gerneral - NADA - never ran against your ass I ran against the bsst mag bikes out there what did you do ?


Never seen ya never will all you got is talk and NO GAME

Shut your PIE HOLE AND RIDE

This women excites me,Bob I did not realize you had such a passionate following from the fairer sex on your site.

Come down this way Freemer so I can do a reemer on you and really hear you bark like the dog you are!

Then will post some pictures.

[Slow old Fart]

Reemher excited me good so I am going to let some spooge fly about more AF observations.

Now getting into other areas of AF's. I feel if you are going to build one and put all that work out you should do one to keep.

If a bike rides great in your area no matter what year or what it is do not fall for the magazine or what someone says somewhere else in another part of the country. If you like that year chasses do it but you should ride all models enough to decide what's for you.

I did not like the aluminum chasses that well until the 2002 CR 250 came out and I liked that alot big time. It is one of the best all around chasses ever made in my opinion but it is designed for Super x for the most part but it has gerat characteristics all around. When I rode that in 2002 I said to myself it is time to build a AF now. I felt for the FL sand the Yamies 250 YZ were way better handling up front than the 1997 - 2001 CR250.

I feel the 2002 was a major step foward but I still think in some ways chromoly gives a better ride. To save a coulple of pounds or a few bucks which ever reason they started making them like that the old steel stuff is just as good in my opinion but does not look as cool but is tougher in alot of ways.

When I did a 450 CRF I was going by what the mags said and I finally learned they are full of POPOO. There was no mention at first when I read about the CRF450 that it had a push up front. Well I talked to guy who had one when they came out and the first thing he told me was the front end had a problem and he had to spend 500$ to fix it. He had the clamps on order. I still wanted to beleive the mags and said well mabey he does not know what he is talking about.

I bought a new 2003 CRF 450 roller in October of 2002 and immediately did a conversion. When I ride a stock 2003 2002 CRf 450 they do have a push but my 2003 CRF500 CR did not have that problem. SH told me you have to lower the motor as much as possible. On my clutch side we actually cut alittle away from the frame in order to lower it more so the lower part of the clutch cover could go lower in order to make it work. On my CRF conversion the motor is so low that I did not have to modify the tank and use the long plug as well that is how low it is.

So for whatever reason if you do a GEN 1 450 and lower the motor a push should not be a problem but getting it to steer with little input is and I had to get 20mm offsets to correct it.

# 1 major reason to do a Cr250 GEN3 it does not need offsets.

#2 reason if you do not jump the crap out of it you should be able to modify the stock Y with out hacking the frame up.

#3 reason the air box mod but a CRF 450 airbox is easily modified so to me that is a none issue.

#4 Reason to do a gen 3 250 it has a pipe tab in middle of frame the 450 does not but it does have a tab in front of frame for the front pipe mount . The CRF250 does not have this so in that regard a 450 is better than a CRF250.

#5 reason if you are below 6ft and ride tighter stuff.

#6 They made that chasses for 6 years BIG REASON!

# 7 you can use the throotle assembly on a CRF you need to change that.

So all in all the CR250 gen3 is great


Reasons to do a gen 1 450.

# 1 if you are above 6Ft it is GREAT!!!!!!!!!

# 2 They only made these for 3 years but they sold a ton of them and parts are dirt and I mean dirt cheap. You can build one for cheap. I see parts for these things on ebay sell for nothing I mean good stuff for 2$ plus shipping. You can have a whole spare chasses for next to nothing. The country side seems to be liitered with these 4strokes that are blown up and 2 exspensive to fix so people just dumpem cheap.

#3 the motors are big bucks although prices are coming down. A 2004 that was like new that I bought after selling the motor I only had 500$ in a complete roller. My new 2005 after I sold the motor I only had 2000$ in the chasses.

#4 the bike is alot easier to work on in the motor deparrtment more room but this is really a none issue if you know what you are doing.

# 5 the bike does need triples but is overall better at high speed like I said some of the pros were lenghtning the swing arm a touch on the 250 to get the bike to go straighter and hook better but the problem with that is you need acces to the same 7000 series aluminum. If you can figure out a way to add a little length to the rear of the bike you really should get the best of both worlds. You just have 2 chains and use one with the wheel foward and the other with the wheel back. This would be the ultimate 500 for the average size guy.

#6 The valving should be alot closer match to the 500 motor on a stock 450 chasses on a 250 it seems like springs and revalve in most cases would be mandatory but I cannot varify this mabey someone else can. BIG $$$$$ but I always have to do this for me anyway.

In my opinion a 500 is for high speed and the 250 could use more stability and it can be fixed with not to much trouble. You can never make a GEN1 450 as agile or compact as a GEN3 250 so overall it is a better package.

If I cannot get my CRF gen 4 to handle sand correctly I will then wish I kept my SH Gen 3 500 AF!

The guy's on thumper talk alot of them who were over 6FT went back to their GEN1 450 after trying a GEN2 450. The taller you are in most cases the better a GEN 1 450 will be.




On the GEN 1 450 the rear seems to be real sensitve to shock set up and does not like a stiffer spring at all than what you need. I put a stiiff spring on it because that is how I did my normal CR 500's.I found on my 500 because of the chasses flex it likes a touch stiffer than I needed and felt better.

Not the 450 in my case even after I did a revalve the rear end was coming around on me and was dangerous. I called Frank Thomas who is Jason Thomas's father and he told me the spring was to stiff so I went down one size and the problem went away.


The chasses beat the living crap out of me as well with the stiffer spring. THESE BIKES ARE SOLID AS HELL! and need to be set up right. VERY VERY IMPORTANT and the new machines are definitely pro caliber so set up is critical when coming off of a steelie.
Even the pros can have issues getting the new super bikes to behave well in situations, these newer bikes are like trying to get a fueler to hook up. Set up right they work at light spped but wrong and they can put you in the hospital when you start going faster than you ever could on your steelie and the set up is not quit right and they take a bad hop when you are trying to go at pro speed or trying to get at that level.


I will post more later on what I found about being able to swap parts out from a 250 to a 450 or a CRF 250. Alot of the parts are the same and you can cook up all kinds of stuff in order to make what you want. Dialing these machines in better is just a click away on ebay to make changes in ride!

Going to a Gen 4, I think those who have done them will agree the bike turns out the best and is the easiest to work on. The package is cleaner and better detailed but the bike is a super x bike.

The bike is twitchy up front and Honda admitted this in 08 by adding a dampener. This is why the GEN3 250 is the best overall package in my opinion. IT NEEDS NOTHING!

If you do one and want more stability you can get it by going to the 04 02 03 fork but on the 02 03 you need to change brake setup and they do not have the newer factory style honing process so the 04 is what you want! It has less offset than a 05 and Rekluse axle will add front end stability as well. I never really hardly rode my 05 at all just tired of FL riding it sucks bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no where good to ride off road.

I started riding street bikes for a change but one thing was for sure the bike is a pure super x bike that can use stability if you are going fast.

The nice thing about the new 450 and 250 CRf is you can update your old bikes with the Gen 4 components.

You can put the newer swing arm of the 05 and up + the linkages as well to update the older Gen 3 250 and GEN 1 450.

All the linkages are different on a CRF CRFX 450 250 and CR250. You can mix and match this stuff for a change with out revalving your shock.

I am very lucky I have Frank Thoma 20 miles from my house he was telling me they mix the linkages up all the time depending on track conditions. He said it works good. You can get the swingarms,shocks and linkages on Ebay for a good price.

He also confimed what I found the newer GEN 4 has issues steering in certain conditions. I get the low down on these bikes from him and he does my suspension and is a amazing tuner. I find when I do what he tells me to do the bike goes the direction in function I want.

The newer 05 and up swingarm is lighter the linkages are more linear and the shock is about a 1/2" longer and the rear end on the newer 05 and up is reported to work a bit better then gen 1 450 as well as the gen 3 250CR were known to want to start kicking side to side if you did not keep your weight all the way back and when you get tired you move your weight foward i have had this happen to me and busted my butt a few times the newer setup issupposed to be better about that so updating the older models to current is just a BUY IT NOW away.

Charmichael complained about the kicking because he was having problems in the whoops and that is where some others would get him. Frank Thomas told me this first hand. So when they did the GEN 4 that was a major consideration was how straight can the bike go in the whoops. Hopefully it is rearend related and not frame geometry related.

One last thing the GEN 4 04 CRF 250 does not have the offset fork or the newer swing arm of the GEN 4 450. It shares the same swing arm and fork with the 04 450.

And one more last thing since I can't shut up these bikes practically use the same parts besides motor frame subframe some plastic tank.

You really can swap alot of stuff around and most of the attachment parts to frame are all the same on the CRF n CR. You can actually get a CR 250 frame,Subframe,airbox,seat,n plastic take a CRF and put all the reamainder on it and go so switching from a CRF to CR is no big deal once you do the frame mod.

For what ever reason parts for a CRF conversion are much more readily available than a CR just go look at Ebay so if you are rough and race alot and tear stuff up a CRF conversion has a big advatage in this area and it is a big one. It is not how many years they made it I guess but how many of them there are out there floating around for parts and thankfully the 4jokes are such pieces of CHIT motor wise it plays into the 2smokers hand every time.

[crashing_sux]

I don't follow much racing except MotoGP, MX, and SX but in all three of those fields they seem to have figured out (especially in the past 5 years) that tuned flex is key. Often more lateral flex makes a bike hold a line in the rough much better.

When a bike is laid over on it's side half of the suspension is the lateral flex of the frame. Admittedly, I haven't heard of an scenarios where racers want more vertical flex (except to reduce rider fatigue) but everyone has figured out lateral flex.

Wasn't it Kawasaki this year that added longer engine mount bolts and spacers to increase lateral flex on their 450 for better turning? I'm pretty sure Honda increased lateral flex as well. Here's a quote from a quick google on lateral flex in motorcyles "Chassis engineers have learned over the years that not having enough lateral flex often creates insufficient feel and grip in bike turn-in and lateral loads as in cornering.", there is a ton of info out there on it.

Yamaha did some very cool work with this in their MotoGP bikes, check out this pic
What looks almost like a shock on the side of the bike is actually a transduce used by their data loggers to measure lateral flex when cornering to determine the optimum level of stiffness for their race bikes. Stiffer is not always better. Here's a link to a quick writeup on a neat bike. http://www.motorcycledaily.com/25february03yzrm1.htm

Note, at the time this article was written they weren't sure if they were shocks or measurement devices, it was later publically released that they were only for masurement purposes.

[Freemer]

Just got back from Glamis - Slow Old Man bring all your Gen's - will still woop yur ass in the dunes on any sunday.

I ride a steelie and it works great - you only ride "sugar sand" try the sand capital of America and do your best to keep up with this Hoon.

Glad you have all this info on AF's - Find one that is good for you and leave eveyone else alone - they are happy with their machines.

Post something on RIDE REPORTS - mine will be there in time including pictures.....wow !


You are Mr. knowitall when it comes to conversions - sell all the ones that suck (that would be all of them) you should write a book about that stuff to enlighten the masses about your "observations" that would be entertaining at best.

AF's are nice I may "build" one - Teamtrubble has no trouble and needs no advice.


Be sure to post more volumes of information that no one can use.

Shut your Pie Hole and Ride "Fire Your Guns"

[Slow old Fart]

I don't follow much racing except MotoGP, MX, and SX but in all three of those fields they seem to have figured out (especially in the past 5 years) that tuned flex is key. Often more lateral flex makes a bike hold a line in the rough much better.

When a bike is laid over on it's side half of the suspension is the lateral flex of the frame. Admittedly, I haven't heard of an scenarios where racers want more vertical flex (except to reduce rider fatigue) but everyone has figured out lateral flex.

Wasn't it Kawasaki this year that added longer engine mount bolts and spacers to increase lateral flex on their 450 for better turning? I'm pretty sure Honda increased lateral flex as well. Here's a quote from a quick google on lateral flex in motorcyles "Chassis engineers have learned over the years that not having enough lateral flex often creates insufficient feel and grip in bike turn-in and lateral loads as in cornering.", there is a ton of info out there on it.

Yamaha did some very cool work with this in their MotoGP bikes, check out this pic
What looks almost like a shock on the side of the bike is actually a transduce used by their data loggers to measure lateral flex when cornering to determine the optimum level of stiffness for their race bikes. Stiffer is not always better. Here's a link to a quick writeup on a neat bike. http://www.motorcycledaily.com/25february03yzrm1.htm

Note, at the time this article was written they weren't sure if they were shocks or measurement devices, it was later publically released that they were only for masurement purposes.

absolutely but a single back bone is probably to much flex for street use. I like it for a dirt bike's. That is why they use the cradle design for road racing so the front end does not wonder TO MUCH a little is probably a good thing,there is probably a fine line. That is the problem with the first gene AF's no chasses flex and the bike suffers from it good or bad however you want to look at it.

[Slow old Fart]

Just got back from Glamis - Slow Old Man bring all your Gen's - will still woop yur ass in the dunes on any sunday.

I ride a steelie and it works great - you only ride "sugar sand" try the sand capital of America and do your best to keep up with this Hoon.

Glad you have all this info on AF's - Find one that is good for you and leave eveyone else alone - they are happy with their machines.

Post something on RIDE REPORTS - mine will be there in time including pictures.....wow !


You are Mr. knowitall when it comes to conversions - sell all the ones that suck (that would be all of them) you should write a book about that stuff to enlighten the masses about your "observations" that would be entertaining at best.

AF's are nice I may "build" one - Teamtrubble has no trouble and needs no advice.


Be sure to post more volumes of information that no one can use.

Shut your Pie Hole and Ride "Fire Your Guns"

Freemer your an idiot but a cute idiot,

[2weelz]

SOF, you're killin me with "mabey" and "chasses." It's maybe and chassis. I'm sure you had some more in there that I forgot.

Reemer, Slow lives in FL...he can't just skip over to Glamis and stomp your steelie. Maybe you guys can rendezvous half way.

Sorry fellas...just had to clear those up...haha!

[Slow old Fart]

SOF, you're killin me with "mabey" and "chasses." It's maybe and chassis. I'm sure you had some more in there that I forgot.

Reemer, Slow lives in FL...he can't just skip over to Glamis and stomp your steelie. Maybe you guys can rendezvous half way.

Sorry fellas...just had to clear those up...haha!

I want to go to California and see him ride so I can sponcer him, if he rides anything like he talks we can all retire off this race Stud!

[AlisoBob]

[britincali]

Freemer your an idiot but a cute idiot

[lewisclan]