Posted: March 25th, 2010, 8:59 pm
Looks to be!speedway501 wrote:I think when they are welded and motor is bolted in they will be plenty strong enough.
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Aussie Ray Gen 4 / CRF450R 06
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Posted: March 26th, 2010, 5:01 am
RideRed wrote:My welder has been in the aluminum working / welding business for 24 years. He builds sprint cars mostly, but does many other things as well. He said that the only time aluminum needs to be heat treated is after the initial annealing. So in effect, the only time it would need to be heat treated for strength is after its been heated to bend. If that makes sense.
Quick facts from my welder himself:
1. 6061-T6 needs annealed to bend, 6063-T6 does not.
2. 6061-T6 is stronger in a straight line, but not as strong when bent.
3. It will run you approx. $70-$150+ per rail to anneal 6061-T6 just so that you are able to bend it. 6063-T6 is NOT easy to bend, but responds far better to bending then 6061-T6. At $150+ each, you better be darned sure about your bends.
4. And for the biggest reason for why he recommended 6063-T6 over 6061-T6 is that after you go through all the effort and cash to anneal, bend & heat treat the 6061-T6, it will end up weaker than it was before the process began, effectively making the 6061-T6 equal to or lesser than in strength to the 6063-T6. Once it has been through both heat processes and has been bent, it will never be as strong as it was before. So its a waste of your money to go through the process and have almost the same exact thing as the 6063-T6.
Oh shit, here we go with this again. Could you at least change it to "quick OPINION of your welder? Much of what you state is just bull shit!
I say this as a HEAT TREATER of 30 years. 100hp, stick to your plan because you are on the right track.
Posted: March 26th, 2010, 8:16 am
KE 336 wrote:RideRed wrote:My welder has been in the aluminum working / welding business for 24 years. He builds sprint cars mostly, but does many other things as well. He said that the only time aluminum needs to be heat treated is after the initial annealing. So in effect, the only time it would need to be heat treated for strength is after its been heated to bend. If that makes sense.
Quick facts from my welder himself:
1. 6061-T6 needs annealed to bend, 6063-T6 does not.
2. 6061-T6 is stronger in a straight line, but not as strong when bent.
3. It will run you approx. $70-$150+ per rail to anneal 6061-T6 just so that you are able to bend it. 6063-T6 is NOT easy to bend, but responds far better to bending then 6061-T6. At $150+ each, you better be darned sure about your bends.
4. And for the biggest reason for why he recommended 6063-T6 over 6061-T6 is that after you go through all the effort and cash to anneal, bend & heat treat the 6061-T6, it will end up weaker than it was before the process began, effectively making the 6061-T6 equal to or lesser than in strength to the 6063-T6. Once it has been through both heat processes and has been bent, it will never be as strong as it was before. So its a waste of your money to go through the process and have almost the same exact thing as the 6063-T6.
Oh shit, here we go with this again. Could you at least change it to "quick OPINION of your welder? Much of what you state is just bull shit!
I say this as a HEAT TREATER of 30 years. 100hp, stick to your plan because you are on the right track.
OH ! SNAP !!
Posted: March 26th, 2010, 2:47 pm
6061 is nearly double the strenght of 6063. your saying if you anneal and re-heat treat 6061 its lost nearly half the strenght, or just a partial amount ? it may lose some, i doubt much though. maybe ill have a chunk of my extra tube tested after the re-heat treatRideRed wrote:My welder has been in the aluminum working / welding business for 24 years. He builds sprint cars mostly, but does many other things as well. He said that the only time aluminum needs to be heat treated is after the initial annealing. So in effect, the only time it would need to be heat treated for strength is after its been heated to bend. If that makes sense.
Quick facts from my welder himself:
1. 6061-T6 needs annealed to bend, 6063-T6 does not.
2. 6061-T6 is stronger in a straight line, but not as strong when bent.
3. It will run you approx. $70-$150+ per rail to anneal 6061-T6 just so that you are able to bend it. 6063-T6 is NOT easy to bend, but responds far better to bending then 6061-T6. At $150+ each, you better be darned sure about your bends.
4. And for the biggest reason for why he recommended 6063-T6 over 6061-T6 is that after you go through all the effort and cash to anneal, bend & heat treat the 6061-T6, it will end up weaker than it was before the process began, effectively making the 6061-T6 equal to or lesser than in strength to the 6063-T6. Once it has been through both heat processes and has been bent, it will never be as strong as it was before. So its a waste of your money to go through the process and have almost the same exact thing as the 6063-T6.
. and another thing, the moment "your" welder fired up that tig, he basically did a crude annealing to all areas of your cradle tube around the weld, causing it to lose basically all its strenght or atleast 80%, i bet he forgot to tell you that . from what i read it can gain a small amount of strenght back due to natural againg, a very small amount. maybe you misunderstood what your welder said, cant image a guy with 24 years experience saying some of that stuff. call a heat treater and ask them, they know by far more than your welder 
Posted: March 26th, 2010, 3:32 pm
Going to try 6063 and 6061 this weekend
What is the radius for an 05 crf 250 frame on the tubes
I see one of you say that you can bend 6061 t6 with out heat?
Is that true?
What is the radius for an 05 crf 250 frame on the tubes
I see one of you say that you can bend 6061 t6 with out heat?
Is that true?
Posted: March 26th, 2010, 3:36 pm
ridered i forgot to say but im not bashing your technique, or anyone elses. the nice thing about these conversions is theres many ways to go about it, depending on skills, financial situation, avalability of materials, availability of tools , etc etc etc. regardless of the technique used, i hope everyone rides safe 
Posted: March 26th, 2010, 3:45 pm
This is just what my welder told me. I'm not stating it to be fact. Calm downKE 336 wrote:RideRed wrote:My welder has been in the aluminum working / welding business for 24 years. He builds sprint cars mostly, but does many other things as well. He said that the only time aluminum needs to be heat treated is after the initial annealing. So in effect, the only time it would need to be heat treated for strength is after its been heated to bend. If that makes sense.
Quick facts from my welder himself:
1. 6061-T6 needs annealed to bend, 6063-T6 does not.
2. 6061-T6 is stronger in a straight line, but not as strong when bent.
3. It will run you approx. $70-$150+ per rail to anneal 6061-T6 just so that you are able to bend it. 6063-T6 is NOT easy to bend, but responds far better to bending then 6061-T6. At $150+ each, you better be darned sure about your bends.
4. And for the biggest reason for why he recommended 6063-T6 over 6061-T6 is that after you go through all the effort and cash to anneal, bend & heat treat the 6061-T6, it will end up weaker than it was before the process began, effectively making the 6061-T6 equal to or lesser than in strength to the 6063-T6. Once it has been through both heat processes and has been bent, it will never be as strong as it was before. So its a waste of your money to go through the process and have almost the same exact thing as the 6063-T6.
Oh shit, here we go with this again. Could you at least change it to "quick OPINION of your welder? Much of what you state is just bull shit!
I say this as a HEAT TREATER of 30 years. 100hp, stick to your plan because you are on the right track.
Posted: March 26th, 2010, 4:08 pm
Just two quick indisputable facts:
1. 6061-T6 is more brittle than 6063-T6 as it will shear before flexing.
2. There is a difference on paper, but no one here will ever be able to notice a difference once welded up. No one is going to test PSI strength ratings. (At least I hope you have better things to do, like actually ride)
1. 6061-T6 is more brittle than 6063-T6 as it will shear before flexing.
2. There is a difference on paper, but no one here will ever be able to notice a difference once welded up. No one is going to test PSI strength ratings. (At least I hope you have better things to do, like actually ride)
Posted: March 26th, 2010, 4:42 pm
6061 T6 is brittle. i was having a chat with the heat treater and he mentioned something about it being classified as not bendable or something to that affect. obviously it will bend but i think what he meant was its not recomended to be bent while still in the T6 condition. obviously it can snap, and i think some how it also changes the strength properties but thats getting pretty deep for me because i dont know alot about that technical metallurgy shit.
Posted: March 26th, 2010, 7:12 pm
Thanks for giving an honest and impartial answer to the 6061-T6 love fest. I don't know much about metallurgy shit myself. I just want people to know that there ARE other options out there. I am tired of reading the bullshit some people spew that: 6061-T6 is the STRONGEST therefore BEST, or the ONLY TYPE TO USE, basing that information off of what others say or what they read on a metals spec sheet that they don't even know how to interpret themselves100hp honda wrote:6061 T6 is brittle. i was having a chat with the heat treater and he mentioned something about it being classified as not bendable or something to that affect. obviously it will bend but i think what he meant was its not recomended to be bent while still in the T6 condition. obviously it can snap, and i think some how it also changes the strength properties but thats getting pretty deep for me because i dont know alot about that technical metallurgy shit.
. A frame section or cradle made or 6063-T6 or 6061-T6 is only as good as its welds.Posted: March 26th, 2010, 7:22 pm
Aussie Ray,
My apologies for this. Your build thread got out of control and off-topic fast.
Please let me know what you want me to delete and I will.
Sorry,
John
My apologies for this. Your build thread got out of control and off-topic fast.
Please let me know what you want me to delete and I will.
Sorry,
John
Posted: March 27th, 2010, 9:38 am
Seems like everyone is using 4.5 or 5.5 radius. I can get a 5.5 for my JD2 bender so I was thinking of trying this as well one of these daysKing of the 500 wrote:Going to try 6063 and 6061 this weekend
What is the radius for an 05 crf 250 frame on the tubes
I see one of you say that you can bend 6061 t6 with out heat?
Is that true?
Posted: March 27th, 2010, 10:05 am
I'll stand by my statement that if the tubing your using will bend in a machine, it will bend when you case a boulder, rock, log, or whack anything else hard and unmoveable.
The OEM lower cradle tubes I retained in my build WILL NOT BEND. Their harder than fuk....I retained them for that reason, cuz I seem to whack shit all the time.
The OEM lower cradle tubes I retained in my build WILL NOT BEND. Their harder than fuk....I retained them for that reason, cuz I seem to whack shit all the time.
Posted: March 27th, 2010, 10:29 am
Cool I will have to give that a try I have 10 feet of each to try.Mik329 wrote:
Seems like everyone is using 4.5 or 5.5 radius. I can get a 5.5 for my JD2 bender so I was thinking of trying this as well one of these days
Posted: March 27th, 2010, 3:59 pm
Sorry for poor quality pictures. They are taken on my phone.
Posted: March 27th, 2010, 4:02 pm
That looks goooood man keep it going..
Posted: March 27th, 2010, 4:09 pm
Thanks King.
RideRed, No need to apologise, all very interesting stuff.
RideRed, No need to apologise, all very interesting stuff.
Posted: March 28th, 2010, 7:21 pm
Dont use photo bucket...
unless you plan on spending more time on there then you do banned or facebook...you'll soon find all your posted pictures will be gone & replaced with a shity logo and an "Inactive account caption"
unless you plan on spending more time on there then you do banned or facebook...you'll soon find all your posted pictures will be gone & replaced with a shity logo and an "Inactive account caption"
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 12:16 am
asteroid500, Thanks. I don't know much about it but i used "tinypic". See how it goes.
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 12:29 am
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 12:45 am
so how does honda bend them then bob ?AlisoBob wrote:I'll stand by my statement that if the tubing your using will bend in a machine, it will bend when you case a boulder, rock, log, or whack anything else hard and unmoveable.
The OEM lower cradle tubes I retained in my build WILL NOT BEND. Their harder than fuk....I retained them for that reason, cuz I seem to whack shit all the time.
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 1:09 am
FUCK ME RAY...you could drive a golf ball between your engine and frame
and from the fairway as well..those shaggy rail are good.
and from the fairway as well..those shaggy rail are good.
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 3:05 am
asteroid500, I am useing Shaggy's head stays only. I had frame rails and engine mounts made up by mates. Purposely allowed plenty of clearence around exhaust for stroked motor or maybe even a CPI Top end later.
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 5:51 am
thats it...now we know were your son gets it...your fucked
What about running alcahol, nitros, and many of the other over the top mods going on over there....imagine doing a set of woops with NOS on....i'm crasy but i'd not do that
What about running alcahol, nitros, and many of the other over the top mods going on over there....imagine doing a set of woops with NOS on....i'm crasy but i'd not do that
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 7:16 am
They heat treat the whole frame after all the welding is complete.gregrobo wrote: so how does honda bend them then bob ?