AlisoBob wrote:bearorso wrote: ..... to me, an AF, feels more top heavy.
I have the complete opposite opinion.
Fair enough - one persons feel from a bike can differ entirely from anothers.
I do know that the steel frame is lighter in itself - Gregrobo's picture and testimony are a good illustration of that. Many AF peripherals are lighter, though.
Late model steelie frames are not tanks - geeze, the top tube is the same dia. , yet thinner in the walls than the downtubes on the DH frames that I make. Just using the rough guide of weight differences between Aluminium & Steel (4130 is no lighter than mild steel, just stronger, so less metal can be used) alloy being approximately a 1/3 of the weight of steel, when you compare the dimensions / amount of material in an AF frame, you will see it isn't a feather weight.
And the mass present up high, re the backbone/perimeter rails and HT sections in both frames, has the AF frame by itself being more top heavy. Add in how all the fuel is carried above the engine ( yes, a quantity of fuel on a steelie is carried a bit higher than an AF, but that's when filled with the full 10 litres - the majority of AFs, with the original donor tanks, plus mods to clear the 500 engine, hold a lot less than a std steelie tank) and steelies carry probably at least 4 litres ( more than a US gallon) below the low point of an AF fuel tank. Desert tanks make the fuel height difference even more pronounced, as so much of the extra fuel is held even lower on a steelie, yet the AF desert tanks can only go out & up.
AFs radiators are a bit lower. so they gain a bit back on that front.
I went for a ride today with my steelie, which is heavy with all its off road set up, and my mate who currently has possession of my 07 gen 3, which is set up purely as an MXer for his uses. I'd say that it Is at least 35/40lbs lighter than the CRE, purely because of having nothing added to it. It's a great bike, and I love to ride it every now & then, but if it were to become my one ride, as the CRE is for the foreseeable future, it too would become a tank with all the gear I fit for my riding.
I'd like to have 2 identically set up CRs, 1 AF, 1 steelie, to check the centre of gravity with. I'd say the AF would be slightly higher , without fuel, which combined with the more rigid frame, gives you the feeling of quicker / easier flip flopping, so to speak. A slightly higher centre of gravity is not necessarily a problem, ( though a considerably higher one will be!) it can be a benefit, depending on the feel the designer is after. Centre of mass / concentration of the mass nearest to that centre is yet another thing, and we will be seeing pretty much all manufacturers concentrating on it. That is why I'm so eager to get a few of my own projects finished , so the Gen4 I did for a mate recently can come back in for a airbox /tank position swap. That should be an great thing to ride, and remove the top heavy feel I feel with AFs with a full tank. If you go back when Honda first introduced the Pro Link, their advertising pushed the centre of mass point Much harder than the suspension action.
With how cheaply you US blokes get Good rollers, if you have an old bike, you'd be mad not to do your own AF. Just try to get as young a roller as you can - I prefer the gen 3s as a ride, personally, but even 07s are getting long in the tooth, so it's hard to get a good one. And of course, you'll get gen 4s & 5s in damned near perfect condition from all the idiots who don't take care of their CRF/CRFxs
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
. But I had a fellow recently come to me, with a pristine CRE and a trashed gen1 for a conversion - a 13 year old piece of junk, that was worse than a steelie of that time to ride ( gen 1s are held up quite often as one of the worst handling bikes in recent times - they do work better as a 500 though. And I'm writing this as an owner of one - we made quite a few of them in 97/98 as a bunch of mates , each one took only an afternoon and a few cases of beer to make, dependent on the amount of blokes 'helping', and all except one of us put our engines back into the original frames fairly quickly) so I told him that there was now way I'd do it, and to go away and have a think about getting a much later chassis, in Much better condition. The poor bugger had payed a shit load for the bloody thing and it was trashed.
As I've said, I'm not knocking AFs, they're a good thing, but a L/M , well set up steelie, is far from being a dog, especially as an off road / enduro bike.