BannedCR500Riders.com

Dakota Boy wrote:ANY concerns over steel plates chewing up the inner and outer clutch baskets?

There isn't an issue with the steel drives damaging the basket and hub. This is the problem:

MICK wrote:...but Barnett still uses steel as a base meterial for their fiber plates....Hinson's fibers use an aluminum base plate.

The aluminum fiber plates are a lot easier on the basket's tangs. Things stay tighter for longer.

How well do the fiber plates hold up Mick? I have never used them, but am always willing to try something new if it is cost effective.

hinson website says they use paper and/or cork, probly real similiar to oem plates

JBaze wrote:How well do the fiber plates hold up Mick? I have never used them, but am always willing to try something new if it is cost effective.

I can't tell you. It hasn't been long enough. So far everything feels like OEM Honda stuff. Which IMO is perfect

Just thinking out loud...but I don't think it would be smart to use something like carbon or kevlar fibers with these akadized aluminum drive plates.

100hp honda wrote:anybody weighed aluminum plates vs steels ?

new alum is 18 grams, steel is 68 grams!

anybody having trouble setting up a new clutch assembly and having it tooo wide?
I've done 2 kits in my bikes now, (one in the 91 with a new basket, new inner hub and old pressureplate, in the '01 it was factory basket, hub, and pressureplate) and have to change out 2 steels for aluminum plates (thinner than steels) to make it fit in the basket, if not the last fiber is catching by 1/3 of its tang on the edge of the basket.

Never seen that

If those steel plates are indeed wider than the OEM ones it makes perfect sense to me. The Hinson plates installed flush against the edge of my hub when I rebuilt my clutch. If just one plate was thicker than the others my last fiber wouldn't be completely seated on the hub. Honda, and as it would turn out Hinson build there plates to very tight tolerances. There is no room for an extra fatty...

Roostius_Maximus wrote:

100hp honda wrote:anybody weighed aluminum plates vs steels ?

new alum is 18 grams, steel is 68 grams!

is that each seperate plate ? what brand plates ?

That's each plate. So as a set Roostius's aluminum drives weigh 4.46oz, and whatever steels he weighed are 16.74oz!

This is what I came up with on my digi postal scales per set:
My OEM used drives = 161g / 5.7oz
My OEM used fibers = 272g / 9.6oz
That makes 15.3 ounces of replaced fibers and drives.
Hinson's akadized drives = 167g / 5.9oz
Hinson's cork frictions = 250g / 8.8oz
So my fresh clutch kit weighs 14.7 ounces, almost half a pound less than the worn out OEM equipment. A typical steel clutch kit weighs over 2.5lbs.

Off topic but did you know that the russians used cork instead of ceramic tile on the bottom of their version of the shuttle.

britincali wrote:Off topic but did you know that the russians used cork instead of ceramic tile on the bottom of their version of the shuttle.

They were also the first ones in space. First dog in space, too:



Now, back on topic....when installing the aluminum clutch plates, is the rounded side in or out (of the teeth) ? I forget...

Thats a pile of inertia to sling, i'll be sure to not use a weighted flywheel on an engine with steel clutches.
I'm going to swap my 86 engine back to the stock basket and clutch with alum drivers instead of the 92 setup i'm currently running with steels in it, just to see how it feels.

I can honestly say I noticed no difference between steel and the alloy plates aside from the clean oil


Dont forget the clutch spins a LOT slower than the flywheel.

hoofarted wrote:

britincali wrote:Off topic but did you know that the russians used cork instead of ceramic tile on the bottom of their version of the shuttle.

They were also the first ones in space. First dog in space, too:



Now, back on topic....when installing the aluminum clutch plates, is the rounded side in or out (of the teeth) ? I forget...

down

britincali wrote:I can honestly say I noticed no difference between steel and the alloy plates aside from the clean oil
Dont forget the clutch spins a LOT slower than the flywheel.

On the CR500 I don't suspect it would make much difference by themselves. I began looking for these kind of drive plates for my AF after I began using a set of Hyperplates for my RC51. Of course the RC is dealing with a lot more weight. And the results brought a smile once the OEM steel drives were replaced.
Oil contamination should be on the mind of every rider. Steel drives are superior in this regard and should probably be used more widely than they are. I bought the Hinson akadized clutch kit as part of a greater plan to fight rotational weight. The clutch kit was just 6oz of the 33oz I took out of the motor. This and drive system components together make a noticable difference.
But of course many riders prefer as much load on the motor as possible. Chains, sprockets, clutches, flywheel weights you name it. Sometimes it has nothing to actually do with the engine but guys say how well the bike runs with them (because it slowed the bike down some for their old ass). Then go and spend a bunch of money on motor mods and things I don't really understand that...

Can you honestly feel a difference in the way the engine performs or the way the bike handles in regards to a few ounces or even a pound of weight added or removed from the engine except for adding or removing flywheel weight? I can't. The only noticable difference I can tell is going from a spark arrestor to a closed course silencer. The throttle response is a lot crisper with a racing silencer. Don't get me wrong, I not trying to sound like a smart ass, I am really curious if you can tell an honest difference.

JBaze wrote:Can you honestly feel a difference in the way the engine performs or the way the bike handles in regards to a few ounces or even a pound of weight added or removed from the engine except for adding or removing flywheel weight? I can't. The only noticable difference I can tell is going from a spark arrestor to a closed course silencer. The throttle response is a lot crisper with a racing silencer. Don't get me wrong, I not trying to sound like a smart ass, I am really curious if you can tell an honest difference.

X2

i'm not ruling out clutch weight making a difference, when our guys find a chain making a 1hp difference at the wheel, its all rotating mass and inertia. Same reason guys take gears out they aren't using.
I'm going to swap it and see if i feel anything, i've got the parts so theres really no $ involved.

JBaze wrote:Can you honestly feel a difference in the way the engine performs or the way the bike handles in regards to a few ounces or even a pound of weight added or removed from the engine except for adding or removing flywheel weight? I can't. The only noticable difference I can tell is going from a spark arrestor to a closed course silencer. The throttle response is a lot crisper with a racing silencer. Don't get me wrong, I not trying to sound like a smart ass, I am really curious if you can tell an honest difference.

A few ounces or even a pound? I sure as hell can't...

I had to start someplace if I was going to make a differnce. Total engine and drive system loss was just over five pounds. Primary drive gear bolt, clutch hub nut, machined clutch hub and basket, clutch basket bolts, clutch spring retainer bolts, Hinson fiber and akadized plates, flywheel nut, countershaft sprocket bolt, Pro Taper c/s sprocket, Iron Man sprocket, Sidewinder 16,000 lbs Ti series chain, sprocket bolts and rotor bolts were all replaced with lighter, in many cases titanium units. All the associated washers and sleeves inside the right case were replaced with aluminum units which turned out to be the biggest bang per buck because there's an ass load of them jobbers in there. The difference Jbaze was more pronounced than switching from my Q silencer to my PC 304 if that gives you any idea...
I purchased some of the fasteners from Mettech, most were collected from friends of mine over the last four or five years. They come off of wave runners, snowmobiles, dirt bikes, street bikes etc. I just collected every trick fastener from them I could before they sold the machine. When it came time to rebuild my clutch, it was just a case of matching parts to parts. The reward is riding somebody elses 500 and then getting back on mine

Thats cool man. I was just curious. I know that shaving as much weight as possible will yield much higher power to weight ratios. I thought you were simply talking about the clutch only.

stock clutch is aproximatly 14 oz ? steel clutch is aproximatly 40 oz ?.... is that with steel fiber plates also ? seems to me like alot of weight but i havent tried a full steel clutch so i cant say the seat of the pants feel. adding 26 oz to a 350 chevy would be miniscule, but in this small of a engine i cant see how you wouldnt notice that . and i understand the point of not wanting the oil contaminated, and i have seen how it contaminates the oil, but ive torn down 2 motors that were nearly 10 years old, both used aluminum plates probly their whole life, and i seen absolutely no sign of any increased wear on any bearings, seals, gears or shafts. this is just my observations

100hp honda wrote:stock clutch is aproximatly 14 oz ? steel clutch is aproximatly 40 oz ?.... is that with steel fiber plates also ? seems to me like alot of weight but i havent tried a full steel clutch so i cant say the seat of the pants feel. adding 26 oz to a 350 chevy would be miniscule, but in this small of a engine i cant see how you wouldnt notice that . and i understand the point of not wanting the oil contaminated, and i have seen how it contaminates the oil, but ive torn down 2 motors that were nearly 10 years old, both used aluminum plates probly their whole life, and i seen absolutely no sign of any increased wear on any bearings, seals, gears or shafts. this is just my observations

100hp I think if you used aluminum plates and changed the oil often there isn't any real disadvantage. My opinion is that most riders don't change their oil often enough and should probably use steel plates because of this. I also feel the weight difference in the clutch alone isn't as noticable because it doesn't turn at the same speed as the crank. A 16oz flywheel weight has a larger impact than 40oz of steel clutch plates. In regards to clutch kits alone I don't think there is a real weight advantage one way or the other. But if a guy changes his oil as often as I do and goes through pains taking efforts to reduce weight and parasitic drag it would be like shooting myself in the foot to run steel clutch plates...

MICK wrote:

100hp honda wrote:stock clutch is aproximatly 14 oz ? steel clutch is aproximatly 40 oz ?.... is that with steel fiber plates also ? seems to me like alot of weight but i havent tried a full steel clutch so i cant say the seat of the pants feel. adding 26 oz to a 350 chevy would be miniscule, but in this small of a engine i cant see how you wouldnt notice that . and i understand the point of not wanting the oil contaminated, and i have seen how it contaminates the oil, but ive torn down 2 motors that were nearly 10 years old, both used aluminum plates probly their whole life, and i seen absolutely no sign of any increased wear on any bearings, seals, gears or shafts. this is just my observations

100hp I think if you used aluminum plates and changed the oil often there isn't any real disadvantage. My opinion is that most riders don't change their oil often enough and should probably use steel plates because of this. I also feel the weight difference in the clutch alone isn't as noticable because it doesn't turn at the same speed as the crank. A 16oz flywheel weight has a larger impact than 40oz of steel clutch plates. In regards to clutch kits alone I don't think there is a real weight advantage one way or the other. But if a guy chances his oil as often as I do and goes through pains taking efforts to reduce weight and parasitic drag it would be like shooting myself in the foot to run steel clutch plates...

I see your point Mick. My self I change the oil after every ride. It's cheap insurance, also with no filter why chance it. I don't go to the great lenghts you do to lighten my bike up. Personally I run the steel because of the amount of time it lasts and also (for me) simply due to the cost. I pound the ever lovin hell out of my bike, and have never had a faliure with the steel plates, how ever, I'm sure you rode over in Roslyn Wa. The miles of whoops and the big hills, one long weekend there and by the last day, I'm swapping clutch plates with buddies to get through the last ride. This is why I switched to steel in the first place, and have yet to replace it. But if I were to be putting the effort into it you are, then by all means I could understand going with aluminium.

If you're having problems burning up plates you might try giving Surf N Turf Racing a call. I haven't had this problem but I had them machine my clutch anyways. It's only $50...good price if you ask me. I did have troubles frying clutches on my KX but never thought of doing this, hindsight is always 20/20 I guess...