4 stroke death toll...

JBaze · Post by **JBaze** » July 18th, 2008, 7:22 pm

I don't think 4 strokes are crap "per se". I have an XR650L that is as reliable as the day is long. I think it's funny how 25 years ago when I was trading off the XR600 for the CR500, all my friends kept telling me how expensive 2 strokes are, because your always rebuilding them and what not. And now, well turn about is fairplay, I can rebuild my CR 3 or 4 times to one of my buddies 450's. I don't think 4 smokers are crap, although I wouldn't spend $ on anything other than a bike like an XR or TTR along those lines and if someone gave me a 450 I would pull the motor sell it on e-bay, buy another 500 and build another AF.

Travis · Post by **Travis** » July 18th, 2008, 7:28 pm

I can say both my 4-strokes are crapped out right now. The EX needs a good carb cleaning I think because it wouldn't start last time I got on it and the fuel just poured out the overflow. The XR is smoking like a freight train. Time for some new rings!

MICK · Post by **MICK** » July 24th, 2008, 6:29 pm

7. Trey Connard CRF250 (no start) Budds Creek
8. Michael Pugrab KX250F (no start) Budds Creek
9. Martin Davalos 250SXF (exploded 1st moto) Unadilla

I'm considering engines that fail to start, causing DNF's, as the same as engines that just blow up. Beings how the end result is no different.

MICK · Post by **MICK** » July 29th, 2008, 3:48 pm

10. Broc Tickle YZ250F, Washougal
11. Ryan Clarke CR450F, Washougal

MICK · Post by **MICK** » August 25th, 2008, 8:21 pm

12. Mathew Goerke KTM 450, Southwick (running second)
and #13 Josh Hill YZ450F, Southwick (clutch burnt up)

NightBiker07 · Post by **NightBiker07** » August 28th, 2008, 12:42 am

hmm im seeing a pattern........

i love my good ol 2 strokes. alot of people i know are all about the 4 strokes. wait till there rebuilding them........
but, i have converted two 2stroke haters to people that would rather ride them!

MICK · Post by **MICK** » September 1st, 2008, 3:21 pm

MICK wrote:My Dad's '03 Gas Gas 200 is running on the original top end. But not a month goes by I don't get a phone call or email about someone's four stroke taking a big steaming shit.

August's victim was Wayne. He performs maintenance on his '06 YZ450F religiously because he was the only guy to SELL his CR500 for a 450 instead of buying one in addition to. And he's been told since day uno that if his Yamaha takes a shit on the trail we will make him push it back. So I'm told last week everybody went riding. And what did Wayne's Yamaha do but take a big steaming shit in the middle of a creek. It's widely known that if a machine were to break down in this location its extraction would be one of two ways. 1) A helicopter. 2) By piecemeal. Stripped down to the frame, secured to a sled and hauled up the mountain with a chainsaw winch. So Wayne had to walk two miles up a mountain, and another three miles in full kit to a skid trail to patiently wait extraction. My Dad and one other 4-wheeled through 28 miles of jeep trail to find him. That was a week ago and the bike still rests in the bottom of HeadKnocker Hole. Where it's likely to remain there until the next passer by decides they want a nice pristine condition 2006 Yamaha YZ450F...with a wasted intake valve of course. Wayne bought a '08 YZ250 yesterday

MICK · Post by **MICK** » September 3rd, 2008, 5:32 pm

I forgot one...

#14 Ryan Sipes 250SX, Southwick (electrical, 1st moto)

...and another
#15 Andrew McFarlane KX250F, Southwick (2nd Moto)

MICK · Post by **MICK** » September 3rd, 2008, 6:05 pm

Oh and one more thing. The following riders also did not finish the race.

LITES:
#211 Clarke
#624 Hall
#170 Dube
#203 Lorusso
#327 Larsen
#309 Daily
#281 Medaglia
and #558 Lymburner

MX CLASS:
#261 Morrison
#56 Skinner
#75 Renner
#154 De Reuver (tiny heart syndrome, no fault of bike's)
#55 Balbi
#68 Marsack
#109 Boni
#719 Friese
and #526 Lamay

Never saw what happened to them? I'm sure those 16 riders just ran out of gas too

glen howell · Post by **glen howell** » September 3rd, 2008, 9:47 pm

Most of the (GSS werks engines) I build for the fast guy's that are privateers and contract riders Are built to last 2 to 5 motos, or Most of the time the life is around 2 to25 hrs. running time then these engines are crated and sent back here to be torn down and refurbished.The privateer puts in his other engine and hopes I have his engine or engines back in time for the backup at the next race. If these engines are running on fuel they get torn down even more often, These engines are contracted at the seasons start ,The rebuilds are pre paid in advance at a given price.That's been my problem sense I've had all this heart trouble I have lost most of my contracts with these people .Bare in mind these engines are not like anything most of the people have ridden before these engines are rocket ships and not long for this world. But these engines start out at $5,500 for 250 cc engines and the drag engines For carts and full on ice race teams, CR-500s are upwards of $7,000.00 These engines have to look as close to stock on the outside as possible, thats when the customer starts out with a complete engine core for the first time.I've given up most of my customers sense CR-500s are not raced as much anymore But I'm happy to do a few engines for regular guy's that enjoy a nice running engine at a fair price to either rebuild or repair at my own pace and rate of time ,Thanks again to all you guy's out there that have stood by me through my illness.Glen (TEAMGSS) NAHA#42

MICK · Post by **MICK** » September 4th, 2008, 6:20 am

That sounds amazing Glen! 2-5 motos from a CR500

You're right, I've never ridden a motor that modded before...not even close. I'd like to though

I hope your heart makes a quick and full recovery.

So how come teams builld fourstroke engines to only last PART of a moto and not run to the finish? Seems to me a smart team would sacrifice some power to build a motor that can see the checkered flag. They never had a problem building 2 stroke motors to be fast and reliable.

redrocket190 · Post by **redrocket190** » September 4th, 2008, 10:01 am

The bike stopping in the middle of the creek had nothing to do with the stock YZ running the breather down the front down tube and under the engine where it can suck up water into the head? The WR guys run the breather back into the air box and put a K&N filter on the end...

MICK · Post by **MICK** » September 4th, 2008, 10:44 am

redrocket190 wrote:The WR guys run the breather back into the air box and put a K&N filter on the end...

As is the standard for trail riding. Wayne's was no different. And neither is my bike.

MICK · Post by **MICK** » September 22nd, 2008, 1:32 pm

#16 Josh Grant CRF250, Steel City

End of series, 12 rounds of competition ate 19 250Fs and 13 450s. Not to include lappers and general track fodder. Of the riders who don't get copius amounts of teleivsion coverage, I'm sure just as many if not more did the walk of shame...

kkvslayer · Post by **kkvslayer** » September 22nd, 2008, 1:48 pm

I was watching Canadian motocross on sportsnet over the weekend,can't remember the guys first name but his last name was beaton,anyways he won his first moto and was running 2nd in the second moto and his engine left him stranded,JSR was riding a yami 250 2 stroke,I think he finished 6th or 7th

Exnav · Post by **Exnav** » April 6th, 2009, 3:33 pm

#96 Tyler Wharton YZ250F Jacksonville

NightBiker07 · Post by **NightBiker07** » April 6th, 2009, 5:30 pm

and people want to own these why?

ride a CR250 if you want to go slower than a 500......

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · Post by **Roostius_Maximus** » April 6th, 2009, 6:10 pm

kkvslayer wrote:I was watching Canadian motocross on sportsnet over the weekend,can't remember the guys first name but his last name was beaton,anyways he won his first moto and was running 2nd in the second moto and his engine left him stranded,JSR was riding a yami 250 2 stroke,I think he finished 6th or 7th

thats Kyle Beaton, he comes here to ride with my cousin alot.

B440 · Post by **B440** » April 6th, 2009, 8:05 pm

AlisoBob wrote:If Ferrari built 450cc mx engines.....

"Welcome to another episode of MTV's Cribs. I'm yo host Fitty Cent. Let's check out ma rides. O'a here I gots da new Ferrari Fo-Fitty MX, but ya know I gots to pimp it wit some chromed-out twenty fo's and the diamond-studded Armani leather seat. That's how we do it up in here"

redrider · Post by **redrider** » April 7th, 2009, 10:53 am

AlisoBob wrote:If Ferrari built 450cc mx engines.....

I think all this talk comparing mx engines to F1 and ferrari engines doesn't make sense as it seems that all the super high power to displacement ratio engines have multiple cylinders. How the hell do banshees/rz350s put out more power than us reliably? probably more cylinders. I don't hear about that many street race bikes (4 stroke, 4 cylinder, super douche bikes) that have these problems since their switch to 4Ts.

M.F.D.B. · Post by **M.F.D.B.** » April 7th, 2009, 10:54 pm

teemtrubble wrote:Every one I know that races or rides a 4 stroke has lost a motor and I know a few people.

LIER...

Unless that is you dont "know me" anymore...LOL

Lets see, my 06 YZ450 has blowen up, um..never...I just stripped it after getting back from AZ and found a motor that looked, pretty dam good. Lots of carbon, easily cleaned. A Nikasil bore that measured the same top to bottom (including the part the rings never rub). A piston that could have just been re-ringed. Valves within spec, should I go on? You know how many times ive shimmed the valves? NEVER. Just 4 weekends since I put the hour meter on and I already have 24 hours on it. So that makes an estimated, hell I dunno, 800+ hours? Someone less lazy then me do the math. I ride year around, even in the summer at least twice a month. Winter every weekend just about. Its an 06 ive had since new. I do about 70-80% DUNE's and I hill shoot LOTS. I guess 600-800 hours easy...

My buddies wife rides an 04 CRF250R that just got its first top end since new, as of yet never needed a valve adjustment. Lots of MX riding. He rides an 07 CRF450R that just replaced his 04 which ran like new and only needed ONE valve adjustment its whole life. He does mostly MX and open desert and is a racer (not professionally anymore do to a severe ankle injury). I can go on and on.

Simple fact, do the maintenance or pay the price.

To this day my 500 has gone through 4:1 top ends compared to my 450...

BTW dunes eat FAR more 2 smokers then thumpers, and no riding is harder on a bike then duning is. Its kind of like the beating you get in an MX race with higher loads and longer WFO times...

If you havnt worked at a stealership or a private shop like I have AND OWNED your own thumper, then 100% of your "knowledge" is second hand and second hand knowledge is like second hand sex in value...WORTHLESS

arleybeer40 · Post by **arleybeer40** » April 8th, 2009, 1:32 am

Hay i blew the top end on the katoom at dumont. That counts for another one

Post by **AlisoBob** » April 8th, 2009, 7:16 am

The across the street from me lives Mike, ( some might remember him from the "Ice Shelf of Death" ride at Jawbone)....

Anyways, he rides pretty conservitive.... Owns a Suzuki DRZ400 and and a Katoom 525... He rides both dual sport style.

About a year ago, the Suzuki snaps a timing chain which brings on the purchase of the KTM.

He rides the KTM alot ( while repairing the Zook).

A few weeks ago he comes over asking for a motorcycle valve spring compressor. I go over to his garage to find a broken valve spring and a tagged valve.

He pulls the head, and finds the tagged valve is a blessing in disguise as ALL the valves have margins so thin and sharp you can shave with them.

SEVERAL hundred dollars later, the Katoom is running again... but no more dual sport.. its dirt only. He says if the Suzuki blows up on the street again.... so what. But he dosent want to blow up the KTM.

The odometer on the KTM reads 5500 miles.... Thats not alot of miles..

He looks pretty unhappy riding the Suzuki again....

Only 4 stroke I would own is a big XR

JR650 · Post by **JR650** » April 8th, 2009, 3:04 pm

I cant say Ive ever lost an engine in a 4-stroke. My 02CRF450 had just got a new head and piston (12.5:1) when I bought it, and was at under 90 % leak down when i sold it 130 hours later, valves werent bad, but it was starting to use oil and start hard. i changed the oil religiously every 2 tanks of fuel. I believe that motor had maybe 30 hours left till it went bang. I wasnt springing for the coin to do a top end in a bike i didnt like that much. My XR650R has been awesome, absolutely stupid reliable. I have had to adjust the valves twice in 6 years, they werent out of spec either time, just about on the lower end of spec. its been boiled bad in single track, run lean as hell with the carb half plugged to the point of backfiring 10 miles through the bush, never left me walking, and it still flies on the top end. Only complaint is it can be miserable to start, and its heavy. Someone figure out how to put this engine in a 220lb bike and id be thrilled. Im hoping for similar from a 500.

Post by **AlisoBob** » April 8th, 2009, 3:19 pm

M.F.D.B. wrote: To this day my 500 has gone through 4:1 top ends compared to my 450...

I wouldnt suggest those were the bikes fault....

BannedCR500Riders.com

4 stroke death toll...