86 done up for worcs

high velocity · Post by **high velocity** » November 30th, 2009, 9:37 pm

A dual map switch would be nice,only to improve traction in the wet slimy rocks or the tight silty desert.Running a flywheel weight helps me tame down the motor.I would not invest in that ign just for starting purposes.If you cant get a full kick out of it check the kick starter gear first.

27maverick · Post by **27maverick** » December 1st, 2009, 4:34 am

I plan on running the rekluse, most likely the rekluse pro, haven,t completely decided need to do a little more research on there new one. the fly wheel weight is adding to the rotating mass and that directly affects turning\ braking, but does help in the traction for sure, everything is a give and take these days. Did you go through service Honda for the decompression, and after you welded in the head did you have to have it resurfaced again so the head gasket didn't leak?.

Wheelie-Gene · Post by **Wheelie-Gene** » December 1st, 2009, 6:13 am

27maverick wrote: Did you go through service Honda for the decompression, and after you welded in the head did you have to have it resurfaced again so the head gasket didn't leak?.

I was parts searching for the Harley, and found a decomp valve that looked promising. It's made from stainless and they claimed that it snaps shut after the engine fires off.
It's a simple/clean device. Just snap it down (open) and go to town.
I've seen some big vacuum pod looking devices that are cable operated. This is simple and clean.

I had problems starting the 480, so it was the first one to receive a valve.
Hot or cold, it'll start within 4 or 5 kicks. Cold: choke on, throttle closed and just kick away. Hot: crack the throttle....don't even worry about finding TDC, just stab away. It starts right up.

The 500 is a liitle different. When cold: Choke on, no throttle, give 5 or 6 priming rotations....bring it up to the next wheeze ((which is before tdc)(it makes a wheezing sound when it spews compression), crack the throttle and one good jab...it fires first try. It feels like kicking a wore-out 250.

Hot: Snap the valve down, crack the throttle, up to the wheeze and stab the kicker.
I'm getting used to it now....I can kick it while sitting down on the seat.

If I don't crack the throttle, it lazily runs w/the decomp open for a few revolutions. Cracking the gas brings the RPMs up and feeds more air to the engine/giving more cylinder pressure and the valve closes like it was designed.

Milling the head?
I always surface lap any head that comes off.
If you're installing a decomp valve, might as well mill the head for more compression anyway.

27maverick · Post by **27maverick** » December 1st, 2009, 5:48 pm

I found the decomp, did you weld it in or how did you install it in your head. Also mike at Vortex kept trying talk me in to using the 500 fly wheel, it took me awhile to convince him that it was not going to happen, I don't want that rotating mass even milling the 500 flywheel to the same weight as the 250s would still not be the same 400 grams that is rotating in a 5.5 circle is going to have a much greater effect than 400 grams rotating around a 3 inch circle. So he is going to make a few maps using the 250 curve and flywheel for the 500. Should be interesting

Wheelie-Gene · Post by **Wheelie-Gene** » December 1st, 2009, 7:09 pm

I drilled a 1/2 hole through the head....perpendicular to the chamber.
Cut a short section of 1/2" aluminum rod and machined the ends to look like a double-ended bullet.
Welded it into the head at both ends to seal the combustion pressure and water jacketing.
Drilled a 3/16 hole through the plug.
Drilled down from the top , big enough to tap the threads/far enough to clear the valve tip when open.
Machined a nice flat sealing surface on top and polished the chamber to blend the weld on the inside.

RideRed · Post by **RideRed** » December 2nd, 2009, 12:17 am

Sweet ride! Glad to see that your motor is all silver.

27maverick · Post by **27maverick** » December 2nd, 2009, 6:39 am

I have a head so soon as the decomp comes I'll get started on it. I need to clock the water out lets a tad. I think this idea is a must when you have the motor apart. Sometimes every 500 just is hard to start for some reason. I took the kick starter apart and there is some worn gears and springs so replacing those this week. That would be another item when rebuilding that should be looked at closer. I replaced all the bearings and any thing that looked even slightly worn. I wish I would have tumbled the gears and had them coated, the 300ktm last year didn't shift real well after about 10 hours on it. The gear shifter I bought looked good on the internet but when it arrived it was the biggest piece of shit, It looked like john deer made it, bent in after about three shifts, does any one have a better shifter or is that going to be stock? I'll get some pics of the head mod and shifter issue.

27maverick · Post by **27maverick** » December 2nd, 2009, 4:27 pm

97cr500 cool project, how did that head work, did you like it? The water hose #for the water pump to the back of the head is EBP 80nh75 or the other number on the hose 2257t EBP I believe is the brand name.

RideRed · Post by **RideRed** » December 2nd, 2009, 4:49 pm

I haven't tried the cool head yet...I'm still thinking about selling it. My big issue with it is that if I used it, I have to keep the stock capicity tank. I wanted a IMS 3.6 gal oversized because I only trail ride, and want the extra fuel. The head is too tall and interfers with the tank. I guess its supposed to be good but I haven't installed it yet.

CR500R7 · Post by **CR500R7** » December 2nd, 2009, 8:43 pm

27maverick wrote:Did you go through service Honda for the decompression, and after you welded in the head did you have to have it resurfaced again so the head gasket didn't leak?.

Need a decompression valve, try here. http://www.bannedcr500riders.com/board/ ... php?t=6552

Direct to him, http://www.millarengines.com/

Should get you to where you want to be.

caseyracing222 · Post by **caseyracing222** » December 2nd, 2009, 9:07 pm

I tried moose shifters and a few other brands and found them to be complete junk, they would strip out after a handfull of rides. I orderd an oem shifter and a new shift shaft and havent had a problem since, the fit of the oem parts is just so much better than the aftermarket.

homebuilt · Post by **homebuilt** » December 3rd, 2009, 6:32 pm

thanks for the hose numbers , headed to napa tomorrow!

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · Post by **Roostius_Maximus** » December 4th, 2009, 6:41 pm

27maverick wrote:Did you go through service Honda for the decompression, and after you welded in the head did you have to have it resurfaced again so the head gasket didn't leak?.

You can go to SH for it too, AJ has sent a few my way

I have a fixture made to weld them on that will keep them from warping.

Post by **AlisoBob** » December 4th, 2009, 10:54 pm

Roostius_Maximus wrote:
I have a fixture made to weld them on that will keep them from warping.

Roosty's the Man!!!

27maverick · Post by **27maverick** » December 5th, 2009, 6:16 pm

Thanks roots, I have a extra head I was going to use I would like to know what your idea is for putting the comp value in. And do you know what e-line skid plate would work for ttm frame. and can that valve go in the side of the head or the does it have to be the top?

kdizzle · Post by **kdizzle** » December 13th, 2009, 12:19 pm

So i showed up at canyon raceway here in Az and met up with Don (27maverick) and have to say it was nice to have 2 af conversions on the same MX track! first time i have ever seen an af on the track other than mine. sick. Don's bike is sick and we even swapped bikes for a lap or two. Comparing the two was cool. The 125 chassis really wanted to dive into corners, and the sudco 41 carb made the off idle, early throttle openings ultra smooth compared to my stock PJ. there was quote a bit of difference in power delivery compared to my 01/gss motor, that 86 motor really wanted to spin the RPM's

Good meeting up with you Don SICK bike, hope to see you out more often on that beast!

27maverick · Post by **27maverick** » December 13th, 2009, 4:57 pm

two af500 on the same track was cool, Kdizzle [Kenny] 500 has Hugh bottom end, it was much easier to than mine on the track, two reasons his suspension was set up for his 250 lbs but was very plush, and his 38 pj with porting made for big bottom end made the rear hook up good and stayed in the rut with good exit speed. The track was super slick\ rough\tight\big jumps and perfect for a four stroke on THAT day.
Kenny is still working the bugs out as I am. I believe when I get the rg3 suspension and vortec ignition installed next week I will be able to ride the bike in the mid to upper. I want to swap bikes again after the suspension is on my bike. My felt lighter I think it was because of the 250 fly wheel. I weighed it tonight and it was 231.5. The suspension on my bike jump all over the place and wouldn't stay in the rut unless it feel over in it. Kennys was plush and that's the way my needs to be to get a good feel for the difference in chassis, his being a 450 and mine a 125. I'm dumping the cool zapa pegs to go with the fasst way pegs down and back to open up the compartment. Don't want to raise the bars unless I have to, need the head over the bars and it seems taller bars makes it real easy to get your weight to far back.

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » December 13th, 2009, 5:58 pm

I find that higher bars bent +1 forward actually pushes me further forward on the seat.
one thing I found with my own bikes is that the '86 motor is wicked, even scarry, but ultimately gets slower lap times and gets the the top of the hill later. The '86 power delivery is just plain harder to control. On mine, I used to get squirly and end up making my own trail perpendicular to the existing trail. for the longest time that was refered to as "pulling a Danny" as was looping the bike and smashing the silencer. I haven't done either since I quit riding my '86 powerplant bike

but god damn that bike is fun!

27maverick · Post by **27maverick** » December 14th, 2009, 6:14 am

Well Danny you have a point with the higher bars pulling you up on the seat. There for your head is farther forward. I am going to take small steps with the ergos. The reason I used the 86 is because racing is about corner speed/ entering and exiting. There is where 90% of the passing is done. You will have 70% more corners than jumps and straights on a course. The 86 has less rotating mass because it's a shorter stroke. I'm running aluminum friction plates in the clutch and a 250 ignition/ fly wheel all centered around cornering aspect. In a hour worcs race you will have corned about 500 times. The power delivery is going to be the next area to address and with the vortec ignition Mike has put ten curves in the box two are cr500 curves, good for the dunes I guess three of them he calls traction curves and then it just processes for there. The first box never would show spark so I sent it back. Should get it back next week. That would be a start on the power delivered. I did practice a few starts, I have always sucked and I still suck. Dirt starts with a flag, very hard to keep the front down, didn't have the hole shot devise on the bike but it sure comes up quick with out it.

CR500R7 · Post by **CR500R7** » December 21st, 2009, 10:22 pm

27maverick wrote:The 86 has less rotating mass because it's a shorter stroke.

All CR500's from 84-01 have the same stroke of 79mm.

I think you might of meant the conrod length 84-86 short 87-01 long.

27maverick · Post by **27maverick** » December 22nd, 2009, 4:53 am

Your right about the rod statement .Did a gp race last weekend,1 hour race. The start was bike running and front wheel between your legs. flag dropped and get on and twist the throttle. I was third in to the first corner, moved to the front by the off road. Held that position for two laps and then pulled off. The RG3 suspension was killing me they missed the mark on the rear set up. 5\4 spring was a little soft and the valving was not up to keeping the rear from collapsing under full throttle, the pain in my back was killing me. Before I sent the suspension to them
i asked them if they had tested because only way your going to know how much power the bike has is if you ride one. I'm going to put a 5\6 spring on it and try it again this weekend. Speaking of power there was a straight that was a 180 turn first gear only, no berm. My 500 with 14-48 gearing would just touch top speed went you needed to shut it down, about the same as kx450. I would start two bike links behind and finish 4 bike lengths in front. That is worth Hugh brownie points when your trying to make a 1\2 second out of each turn to set up a pass. The down side is the chassis is stiff, real stiff. There isn't any flex in the frame, I'm not talking front to back I'm talking side to side. I'm going to put rubber under the skid plate first. The precise turning comes with a price and a stiff chassis might be it. I might take a bolt out of the head stay. Rtt stabilizer is coming and and the vortec ignition along with tall seat, richer needle and a few tweaks to the suspension, ok alot there. I will take pictures of the final product and post them, also call kenny to meet at the track and do a ride comparison again.

high velocity · Post by **high velocity** » December 22nd, 2009, 8:12 am

Ive ben riding mine for 10 months now and have a suspension setup that works verry well.pm me with your phone# and we will talk.I operate a race tech suspension center.

kdizzle · Post by **kdizzle** » December 23rd, 2009, 12:00 pm

Don, I had the same experience with RG3 on my bike. My buddy Mike Wilson, the gentleman i was with at cqnyon is a god sent with suspension. he has ridden my 500 alot and knows what it takes to get the back end hooked up and the bike putting down power without trying to swap or bottom. The guy is very unassuming but IMO a suspension genius. If you liked the way mine was setup, he is the man. I have the heaviest springs you can buy on my machine and still get the plushness. My number is 6026920965 mike and I will be out at Canyon or Grinding this weekend give me a call.

on another note i picked up a pwk 41 last week after riding yours and cant wait to try it out at the track. i ride every weekend and some nights during the week, so if your headed out let me know and ill most likely join ya!

27maverick · Post by **27maverick** » December 24th, 2009, 6:17 am

Kenny, I'm getting another suspension so I have two to work with. I'm racing the team race at canyon saturday then grindingstone on Sunday. I'm using them as bike set, it is just a team race. Should be fun you guys should come race. I ordered three needles from sudco, I can't get the rattle out of the mid range, I think it's mostly because of the ignition. Also went to a 5\6 spring in the rear to see if it helps in the acceleration chop. If I don't see you guys out I'll give you a call to ride. I'm interested in getting colored hoses made and a building a custom skid plate, one that goes all the way back to the linkage, the cement pipes in the endurocross is killer on the frame rails. Let me know if your interested, rtt steering stabilizer came in today, now just waiting for the vortec ignition.

kdizzle · Post by **kdizzle** » December 24th, 2009, 8:02 am

yea i definately would be interested in the hoses and skidplate. I just may come out and race, depends on whether i can get the new carb on the bike and get it tuned. Grindingstone sounds fun on sunday, canyon while fun just kicks my ass too much right now to race.

BannedCR500Riders.com

86 done up for worcs