86 done up for worcs
- high velocity
- Posts: 66
- Joined: January 20th, 2008, 9:23 pm
- Location: albuquerque nm
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
I plan on running the rekluse, most likely the rekluse pro, haven,t completely decided need to do a little more research on there new one. the fly wheel weight is adding to the rotating mass and that directly affects turning\ braking, but does help in the traction for sure, everything is a give and take these days. Did you go through service Honda for the decompression, and after you welded in the head did you have to have it resurfaced again so the head gasket didn't leak?.
- Wheelie-Gene
- Posts: 311
- Joined: May 26th, 2008, 11:52 am
- Location: stick country-TX
- Contact:
I was parts searching for the Harley, and found a decomp valve that looked promising. It's made from stainless and they claimed that it snaps shut after the engine fires off.27maverick wrote: Did you go through service Honda for the decompression, and after you welded in the head did you have to have it resurfaced again so the head gasket didn't leak?.
It's a simple/clean device. Just snap it down (open) and go to town.
I've seen some big vacuum pod looking devices that are cable operated. This is simple and clean.
I had problems starting the 480, so it was the first one to receive a valve.
Hot or cold, it'll start within 4 or 5 kicks. Cold: choke on, throttle closed and just kick away. Hot: crack the throttle....don't even worry about finding TDC, just stab away. It starts right up.
The 500 is a liitle different. When cold: Choke on, no throttle, give 5 or 6 priming rotations....bring it up to the next wheeze ((which is before tdc)(it makes a wheezing sound when it spews compression), crack the throttle and one good jab...it fires first try. It feels like kicking a wore-out 250.
Hot: Snap the valve down, crack the throttle, up to the wheeze and stab the kicker.
I'm getting used to it now....I can kick it while sitting down on the seat.
If I don't crack the throttle, it lazily runs w/the decomp open for a few revolutions. Cracking the gas brings the RPMs up and feeds more air to the engine/giving more cylinder pressure and the valve closes like it was designed.
Milling the head?
I always surface lap any head that comes off.
If you're installing a decomp valve, might as well mill the head for more compression anyway.
2nd gen SSS street hooligan
83 CR480
83 XL600
97 VFR750
Kawasaki H1-F
Suzuki Titan
HondaHarley
83 CB1100F
83 CR480
83 XL600
97 VFR750
Kawasaki H1-F
Suzuki Titan
HondaHarley
83 CB1100F
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
I found the decomp, did you weld it in or how did you install it in your head. Also mike at Vortex kept trying talk me in to using the 500 fly wheel, it took me awhile to convince him that it was not going to happen, I don't want that rotating mass even milling the 500 flywheel to the same weight as the 250s would still not be the same 400 grams that is rotating in a 5.5 circle is going to have a much greater effect than 400 grams rotating around a 3 inch circle. So he is going to make a few maps using the 250 curve and flywheel for the 500. Should be interesting
- Wheelie-Gene
- Posts: 311
- Joined: May 26th, 2008, 11:52 am
- Location: stick country-TX
- Contact:
I drilled a 1/2 hole through the head....perpendicular to the chamber.
Cut a short section of 1/2" aluminum rod and machined the ends to look like a double-ended bullet.
Welded it into the head at both ends to seal the combustion pressure and water jacketing.
Drilled a 3/16 hole through the plug.
Drilled down from the top , big enough to tap the threads/far enough to clear the valve tip when open.
Machined a nice flat sealing surface on top and polished the chamber to blend the weld on the inside.
Cut a short section of 1/2" aluminum rod and machined the ends to look like a double-ended bullet.
Welded it into the head at both ends to seal the combustion pressure and water jacketing.
Drilled a 3/16 hole through the plug.
Drilled down from the top , big enough to tap the threads/far enough to clear the valve tip when open.
Machined a nice flat sealing surface on top and polished the chamber to blend the weld on the inside.
2nd gen SSS street hooligan
83 CR480
83 XL600
97 VFR750
Kawasaki H1-F
Suzuki Titan
HondaHarley
83 CB1100F
83 CR480
83 XL600
97 VFR750
Kawasaki H1-F
Suzuki Titan
HondaHarley
83 CB1100F
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
I have a head so soon as the decomp comes I'll get started on it. I need to clock the water out lets a tad. I think this idea is a must when you have the motor apart. Sometimes every 500 just is hard to start for some reason. I took the kick starter apart and there is some worn gears and springs so replacing those this week. That would be another item when rebuilding that should be looked at closer. I replaced all the bearings and any thing that looked even slightly worn. I wish I would have tumbled the gears and had them coated, the 300ktm last year didn't shift real well after about 10 hours on it. The gear shifter I bought looked good on the internet but when it arrived it was the biggest piece of shit, It looked like john deer made it, bent in after about three shifts, does any one have a better shifter or is that going to be stock? I'll get some pics of the head mod and shifter issue.
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
I haven't tried the cool head yet...I'm still thinking about selling it. My big issue with it is that if I used it, I have to keep the stock capicity tank. I wanted a IMS 3.6 gal oversized because I only trail ride, and want the extra fuel. The head is too tall and interfers with the tank. I guess its supposed to be good but I haven't installed it yet.
27maverick wrote:Did you go through service Honda for the decompression, and after you welded in the head did you have to have it resurfaced again so the head gasket didn't leak?.
Need a decompression valve, try here. http://www.bannedcr500riders.com/board/ ... php?t=6552
Direct to him, http://www.millarengines.com/
Should get you to where you want to be.
Jack Schitt
DIE FIRST, worry about it later!
DON'T talk about it, Just DO IT!
When in doubt, GO FLAT OUT!
2001 CR500R1 - SOLD
2007 CR250R7 - SOLD
Wife and Daughter - Left Aug 17 - 2010
Jack Schitt - ??????????????
DIE FIRST, worry about it later!
DON'T talk about it, Just DO IT!
When in doubt, GO FLAT OUT!
2001 CR500R1 - SOLD
2007 CR250R7 - SOLD
Wife and Daughter - Left Aug 17 - 2010
Jack Schitt - ??????????????
- caseyracing222
- Posts: 569
- Joined: January 28th, 2009, 4:20 pm
- Roostius_Maximus
- Site Admin
- Posts: 4641
- Joined: November 16th, 2007, 3:24 pm
- Location: Mt Nebo, Manitoba, Canada
- Contact:
27maverick wrote:Did you go through service Honda for the decompression, and after you welded in the head did you have to have it resurfaced again so the head gasket didn't leak?.
You can go to SH for it too, AJ has sent a few my way
I have a fixture made to weld them on that will keep them from warping.
http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore
My CR500 Tech Reference... http://sdrv.ms/1a0CIiz
MRE Components... http://sdrv.ms/1bs2zhd
My CR500 Tech Reference... http://sdrv.ms/1a0CIiz
MRE Components... http://sdrv.ms/1bs2zhd
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
So i showed up at canyon raceway here in Az and met up with Don (27maverick) and have to say it was nice to have 2 af conversions on the same MX track! first time i have ever seen an af on the track other than mine. sick. Don's bike is sick and we even swapped bikes for a lap or two. Comparing the two was cool. The 125 chassis really wanted to dive into corners, and the sudco 41 carb made the off idle, early throttle openings ultra smooth compared to my stock PJ. there was quote a bit of difference in power delivery compared to my 01/gss motor, that 86 motor really wanted to spin the RPM's
Good meeting up with you Don SICK bike, hope to see you out more often on that beast!
Good meeting up with you Don SICK bike, hope to see you out more often on that beast!
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
two af500 on the same track was cool, Kdizzle [Kenny] 500 has Hugh bottom end, it was much easier to than mine on the track, two reasons his suspension was set up for his 250 lbs but was very plush, and his 38 pj with porting made for big bottom end made the rear hook up good and stayed in the rut with good exit speed. The track was super slick\ rough\tight\big jumps and perfect for a four stroke on THAT day.
Kenny is still working the bugs out as I am. I believe when I get the rg3 suspension and vortec ignition installed next week I will be able to ride the bike in the mid to upper. I want to swap bikes again after the suspension is on my bike. My felt lighter I think it was because of the 250 fly wheel. I weighed it tonight and it was 231.5. The suspension on my bike jump all over the place and wouldn't stay in the rut unless it feel over in it. Kennys was plush and that's the way my needs to be to get a good feel for the difference in chassis, his being a 450 and mine a 125. I'm dumping the cool zapa pegs to go with the fasst way pegs down and back to open up the compartment. Don't want to raise the bars unless I have to, need the head over the bars and it seems taller bars makes it real easy to get your weight to far back.
Kenny is still working the bugs out as I am. I believe when I get the rg3 suspension and vortec ignition installed next week I will be able to ride the bike in the mid to upper. I want to swap bikes again after the suspension is on my bike. My felt lighter I think it was because of the 250 fly wheel. I weighed it tonight and it was 231.5. The suspension on my bike jump all over the place and wouldn't stay in the rut unless it feel over in it. Kennys was plush and that's the way my needs to be to get a good feel for the difference in chassis, his being a 450 and mine a 125. I'm dumping the cool zapa pegs to go with the fasst way pegs down and back to open up the compartment. Don't want to raise the bars unless I have to, need the head over the bars and it seems taller bars makes it real easy to get your weight to far back.
- dannygraves
- Posts: 8020
- Joined: June 1st, 2007, 2:03 pm
- Location: Las Vegas, NV
I find that higher bars bent +1 forward actually pushes me further forward on the seat.
one thing I found with my own bikes is that the '86 motor is wicked, even scarry, but ultimately gets slower lap times and gets the the top of the hill later. The '86 power delivery is just plain harder to control. On mine, I used to get squirly and end up making my own trail perpendicular to the existing trail. for the longest time that was refered to as "pulling a Danny" as was looping the bike and smashing the silencer. I haven't done either since I quit riding my '86 powerplant bike but god damn that bike is fun!
one thing I found with my own bikes is that the '86 motor is wicked, even scarry, but ultimately gets slower lap times and gets the the top of the hill later. The '86 power delivery is just plain harder to control. On mine, I used to get squirly and end up making my own trail perpendicular to the existing trail. for the longest time that was refered to as "pulling a Danny" as was looping the bike and smashing the silencer. I haven't done either since I quit riding my '86 powerplant bike but god damn that bike is fun!
'09 kx450f 4-Poke
Gen-4 trail bike --SOLD--
Gen-3 badass trail/mx bike --SOLD--
Gen-1 built dunes bike --SOLD--
'05 klx110 --SOLD--
'95 pw80
Gen-4 trail bike --SOLD--
Gen-3 badass trail/mx bike --SOLD--
Gen-1 built dunes bike --SOLD--
'05 klx110 --SOLD--
'95 pw80
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
Well Danny you have a point with the higher bars pulling you up on the seat. There for your head is farther forward. I am going to take small steps with the ergos. The reason I used the 86 is because racing is about corner speed/ entering and exiting. There is where 90% of the passing is done. You will have 70% more corners than jumps and straights on a course. The 86 has less rotating mass because it's a shorter stroke. I'm running aluminum friction plates in the clutch and a 250 ignition/ fly wheel all centered around cornering aspect. In a hour worcs race you will have corned about 500 times. The power delivery is going to be the next area to address and with the vortec ignition Mike has put ten curves in the box two are cr500 curves, good for the dunes I guess three of them he calls traction curves and then it just processes for there. The first box never would show spark so I sent it back. Should get it back next week. That would be a start on the power delivered. I did practice a few starts, I have always sucked and I still suck. Dirt starts with a flag, very hard to keep the front down, didn't have the hole shot devise on the bike but it sure comes up quick with out it.
27maverick wrote:The 86 has less rotating mass because it's a shorter stroke.
All CR500's from 84-01 have the same stroke of 79mm.
I think you might of meant the conrod length 84-86 short 87-01 long.
Jack Schitt
DIE FIRST, worry about it later!
DON'T talk about it, Just DO IT!
When in doubt, GO FLAT OUT!
2001 CR500R1 - SOLD
2007 CR250R7 - SOLD
Wife and Daughter - Left Aug 17 - 2010
Jack Schitt - ??????????????
DIE FIRST, worry about it later!
DON'T talk about it, Just DO IT!
When in doubt, GO FLAT OUT!
2001 CR500R1 - SOLD
2007 CR250R7 - SOLD
Wife and Daughter - Left Aug 17 - 2010
Jack Schitt - ??????????????
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
Your right about the rod statement .Did a gp race last weekend,1 hour race. The start was bike running and front wheel between your legs. flag dropped and get on and twist the throttle. I was third in to the first corner, moved to the front by the off road. Held that position for two laps and then pulled off. The RG3 suspension was killing me they missed the mark on the rear set up. 5\4 spring was a little soft and the valving was not up to keeping the rear from collapsing under full throttle, the pain in my back was killing me. Before I sent the suspension to them
i asked them if they had tested because only way your going to know how much power the bike has is if you ride one. I'm going to put a 5\6 spring on it and try it again this weekend. Speaking of power there was a straight that was a 180 turn first gear only, no berm. My 500 with 14-48 gearing would just touch top speed went you needed to shut it down, about the same as kx450. I would start two bike links behind and finish 4 bike lengths in front. That is worth Hugh brownie points when your trying to make a 1\2 second out of each turn to set up a pass. The down side is the chassis is stiff, real stiff. There isn't any flex in the frame, I'm not talking front to back I'm talking side to side. I'm going to put rubber under the skid plate first. The precise turning comes with a price and a stiff chassis might be it. I might take a bolt out of the head stay. Rtt stabilizer is coming and and the vortec ignition along with tall seat, richer needle and a few tweaks to the suspension, ok alot there. I will take pictures of the final product and post them, also call kenny to meet at the track and do a ride comparison again.
i asked them if they had tested because only way your going to know how much power the bike has is if you ride one. I'm going to put a 5\6 spring on it and try it again this weekend. Speaking of power there was a straight that was a 180 turn first gear only, no berm. My 500 with 14-48 gearing would just touch top speed went you needed to shut it down, about the same as kx450. I would start two bike links behind and finish 4 bike lengths in front. That is worth Hugh brownie points when your trying to make a 1\2 second out of each turn to set up a pass. The down side is the chassis is stiff, real stiff. There isn't any flex in the frame, I'm not talking front to back I'm talking side to side. I'm going to put rubber under the skid plate first. The precise turning comes with a price and a stiff chassis might be it. I might take a bolt out of the head stay. Rtt stabilizer is coming and and the vortec ignition along with tall seat, richer needle and a few tweaks to the suspension, ok alot there. I will take pictures of the final product and post them, also call kenny to meet at the track and do a ride comparison again.
- high velocity
- Posts: 66
- Joined: January 20th, 2008, 9:23 pm
- Location: albuquerque nm
Don, I had the same experience with RG3 on my bike. My buddy Mike Wilson, the gentleman i was with at cqnyon is a god sent with suspension. he has ridden my 500 alot and knows what it takes to get the back end hooked up and the bike putting down power without trying to swap or bottom. The guy is very unassuming but IMO a suspension genius. If you liked the way mine was setup, he is the man. I have the heaviest springs you can buy on my machine and still get the plushness. My number is 6026920965 mike and I will be out at Canyon or Grinding this weekend give me a call.
on another note i picked up a pwk 41 last week after riding yours and cant wait to try it out at the track. i ride every weekend and some nights during the week, so if your headed out let me know and ill most likely join ya!
on another note i picked up a pwk 41 last week after riding yours and cant wait to try it out at the track. i ride every weekend and some nights during the week, so if your headed out let me know and ill most likely join ya!
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- Posts: 41
- Joined: March 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
Kenny, I'm getting another suspension so I have two to work with. I'm racing the team race at canyon saturday then grindingstone on Sunday. I'm using them as bike set, it is just a team race. Should be fun you guys should come race. I ordered three needles from sudco, I can't get the rattle out of the mid range, I think it's mostly because of the ignition. Also went to a 5\6 spring in the rear to see if it helps in the acceleration chop. If I don't see you guys out I'll give you a call to ride. I'm interested in getting colored hoses made and a building a custom skid plate, one that goes all the way back to the linkage, the cement pipes in the endurocross is killer on the frame rails. Let me know if your interested, rtt steering stabilizer came in today, now just waiting for the vortec ignition.