The Fantasy!
The Fantasy!
I know this will never happen, but with all the conversions and interest still surrounding the cr 500af. Why the hell can't Honda at least build a limited run on the 500af. I know all the bs saying the demand was gone for these monsters. You would think with two sites dedicated to this machine Honda would at least consider it, and with more than one company still offering the 500af this must tell them something. I know i should pull my head out of my ass, but it's nice to have a dream!
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Roostius_Maximus
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UNLIKE the automotive guys, dont build the engine in MEXICO
http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore
My CR500 Tech Reference... http://sdrv.ms/1a0CIiz
MRE Components... http://sdrv.ms/1bs2zhd
My CR500 Tech Reference... http://sdrv.ms/1a0CIiz
MRE Components... http://sdrv.ms/1bs2zhd
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100hp honda
- Posts: 4394
- Joined: July 4th, 2007, 6:57 pm
its hard to say what the future holds. 2strokes might make a comeback. its no secret 4strokes are expensive to maintain, expensive to buy, and they blow up and loud as hell even with stock exhaust. i honestly have no idea why the 2smokes faded. but until the demand for 4pokes dies, the smokers wont have a chance for a comeback, in my opinion. the technology for clean burning 2smokes is out there, so that definatly isnt a viable excuse. a magazine once said: honda may have shot theirself in the foot with the cr500, because it lasts for many years and needs very little keep it in top running order, (its hard to make money when your product never breaks). the cr250 (mainly the older models), are good bikes also and share alot of the same engine/chassis designs as cr500 does
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JBaze
This thread is good. I was out at my Honda dealer today and asked the same question. He said it was a dead issue as far as Honda go's. They have no intention of re-introducing the 2 Stroke engine and if anything we could see electric bikes soon. He also made a good point, one that I hadn't thought of, but 2011 will be the last year for parts run on the last 500's built and when the parts for that quit after market outfits usually begin to slow down also. Hope not.
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xtremeslide
- Posts: 766
- Joined: December 14th, 2008, 10:25 am
- Location: Mediterranean coast
Let's see what the future says...
KTM,Husqvarna,Gasgas are making new 2 stroke engines in enduro,(enduro bikes must be plated and pass compulsory vehicle inspection,exhaust,etc...)
They are selling a lot even with the rule of 4strokes,Honda have the potential to create a "clean" 2 stroke remeber the EXP-2 back in the 90's
KTM,Husqvarna,Gasgas are making new 2 stroke engines in enduro,(enduro bikes must be plated and pass compulsory vehicle inspection,exhaust,etc...)
They are selling a lot even with the rule of 4strokes,Honda have the potential to create a "clean" 2 stroke remeber the EXP-2 back in the 90's
CR500R
V-MAX 1200
V-MAX 1200
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100hp honda
- Posts: 4394
- Joined: July 4th, 2007, 6:57 pm
JBaze wrote:This thread is good. I was out at my Honda dealer today and asked the same question. He said it was a dead issue as far as Honda go's. They have no intention of re-introducing the 2 Stroke engine and if anything we could see electric bikes soon. He also made a good point, one that I hadn't thought of, but 2011 will be the last year for parts run on the last 500's built and when the parts for that quit after market outfits usually begin to slow down also. Hope not.
months ago, i went to a dealer to see what used bikes they had. at the time i was looking for a gen3 cr250, they didnt even know what they had in their inventory, let alone what new bikes will show up at their door for the next year. if you walk into a dealer today and ask if they have a used '05 cr250, they will say: is that a 2stroke ? dealers are morons and know very little. this has been my experience anyways
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JBaze
I know exactly what your talking about. I had a 92 KX 250 I got through some dealings and I went to the local SKY dealer and asked the kid behind the counter for some parts and he looked at me like I was purple. Had no idea what I was talking about. And really why should he, when that bike was built he was like 2 years old. When i worked at the bike shops when I was a kid, we would make fun of the dumb asses coming in and asking for parts for Hodakas and Pentons and things like that, "They quit building those bikes before I was Born!" Was usually the response. Funny how things come back around! LOL Now I'm that guy!
Re: The Fantasy!
I emailed Honda about this in the past and got no response.mike hunt wrote:I know this will never happen, but with all the conversions and interest still surrounding the cr 500af. Why the hell can't Honda at least build a limited run on the 500af. I know all the bs saying the demand was gone for these monsters. You would think with two sites dedicated to this machine Honda would at least consider it, and with more than one company still offering the 500af this must tell them something. I know i should pull my head out of my ass, but it's nice to have a dream!
Steelie Build Done
Gen 1 CR500 AF Complete - SOLD
Gen 1 CR500 AF Complete - SOLD
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JBaze
Honda, specifically Soichiro (sp?) himself, were always anti 2 stroke - check it out guys, it's well documented . I think the last year targeted for their corporate demise of 2t was 2007, which they met.
There must be a lot of guys who would remember how Honda engineers disguised the CR development as a mower project so as to deliver the CR "fait au complea" before the major heads of the company, so they didn't miss the massive 70's dirt bike boom.They knew they HAD to develop / sell 2 strokes to be competitive. Got to admit, I loved seeing their efforts in the open class with Rex Staten on a full works 410 based on the XL 350 motor. One of the best pictures of my youth came from MXA - Rex Staten twisted up mid-air on it @ Evils Snake River Canyon MX - the caption read something like " handles Reeeeeal good, don't it Rex?" They soon gave up on it.
See their efforts with the NR500 when they came back to road racing, & Honda has been THE major force in all the pro 4 stroke rules/changes in all areas of bike racing. About the only time they have been thwarted in their attempts to push 4 strokes is when the World Trials Championships was scheduled to go to 4ts only a few years ago - the small (but huge in trials sales ) companies like Gas Gas, Beta etc threatened to quit the series so the anti 2t rule was stopped at that time. Honda win the WTC by having the ability to pick the right rider & running 130lb works exotica (fair enough too). They are still trying to change the rules, that plus the perception created by 4 stroke dominance to the average punter means all the Trials companies are selling /developing 4t trials bikes.Watch WTC videos & see how 'quiet trials bikes" is not how you would describe Bou & others 4 strokes. I am really interested in seeing how the 350 Side Valve Gas Gas goes - motor no taller than a 2t & with enough capacity to negate the lower flow of 2 side valves. I'm not anti 4t. I'm interested in all types of motor.
Look at what has happened with GPs - 250s being replaced with 600cc 4 strokes - Honda of course being the sole powerplant supplier....... Relevance to the market is cited, but with development of DFI (think the KTMs had a semi fuel injection on their 250, but they have pulled out in disgust - Honda had fuel injection on the 500 2 t a few times as well in the last few years of 500cc ) 2 strokes really do have relevance again - lets hope they don't kill off the 125 2t. Classically, after the last few years of indifference, Honda seem to be making a big effort to with the last 250gp championship ( it is their 50th year of WC racing ) providing Aoyama & a few others with very quick NS's
Honda IS the engineering company - witness so many of their projects. Even with their commitment to 4 strokes they still pursued 2t innovation - witness the EXP400 with the Activated Radical combustion process ( there are very informative tech papers on the net by the engineers who did it ). The EXP400 got 5th ( I think ) in the Dakar against the twins ( & even 4cyl Yams still ran then ). With a bike over 100lbs lighter, perhaps 10hp less than the works NX twins , but More torque. They also used less fuel than the 4ts! They did produce the CRM250AR - a dual sport bike from I think 97 to 2002- mainly for the Asian market but plenty found their way here to OZ & easy to find 2nd hand. With a race kit comprising a new head & chamber (=?) these performed, motor wise, not far below a CR of the time. Compared to XLs,XRs, XT, TT, DR, KLX they would make of joke of the 4ts, at least ,motorwise. So Honda certainly have the ability to bring out clean, great performing 2ts if they wanted at the tick of a boss's pen. But don't hold your breath for it to happen.
They reason why I got back onto a 500 in 03 was many fold, Street legal (10years too late), not going to be outdated by next years model syndrome, lots of spares from my earlier years riding them & bullet proof - these fitted well with my life of poverty as I changed careers & became a mature aged student ( yup, it's good being the dirty old man on campus - youth & beauty is wasted on the young - best thing is I've hooked up with a couple of their mums.... hmmmm , yummie Grumies) in my late 40s. Shit , my IMS tank is 20 years old, my Unic (Scotts to you) the same as was the last piston I put in, - found it wrapped in Honda paper hiding behind my mill - a good find! I'm not anti 4 stroke , just anti BS capacity rules - sitting 10 ft away from me are 2 rolling chassis, one an 83 RM floater that housed a variety of XR motors , the other a 89 CR 125 that had a XR200 bottom end mated to a TLR250 top end.
I doubt we will ever see a Honda 2 stroke again - electric bikes yes ( eg - Gas Gas management have implied they would being moving to electric before developing DFI 2ts) but it would be great to have a DFI, AR 500. Or any DFI, modern 2t - I hope KTM do bring out something new for 2011 model range. And with 2011 coming up, perhaps we may be in big trouble getting parts - our main thanks to SH may be that they may keep up enough demand for motor parts to keep us going long into the future.
Sorry for rambling on - I'm off- Diana Krall is on Elvis Costello's show - gotta have a perv at his wife - she's strangely cute..........that sneer she has when singing is quite alluring.
There must be a lot of guys who would remember how Honda engineers disguised the CR development as a mower project so as to deliver the CR "fait au complea" before the major heads of the company, so they didn't miss the massive 70's dirt bike boom.They knew they HAD to develop / sell 2 strokes to be competitive. Got to admit, I loved seeing their efforts in the open class with Rex Staten on a full works 410 based on the XL 350 motor. One of the best pictures of my youth came from MXA - Rex Staten twisted up mid-air on it @ Evils Snake River Canyon MX - the caption read something like " handles Reeeeeal good, don't it Rex?" They soon gave up on it.
See their efforts with the NR500 when they came back to road racing, & Honda has been THE major force in all the pro 4 stroke rules/changes in all areas of bike racing. About the only time they have been thwarted in their attempts to push 4 strokes is when the World Trials Championships was scheduled to go to 4ts only a few years ago - the small (but huge in trials sales ) companies like Gas Gas, Beta etc threatened to quit the series so the anti 2t rule was stopped at that time. Honda win the WTC by having the ability to pick the right rider & running 130lb works exotica (fair enough too). They are still trying to change the rules, that plus the perception created by 4 stroke dominance to the average punter means all the Trials companies are selling /developing 4t trials bikes.Watch WTC videos & see how 'quiet trials bikes" is not how you would describe Bou & others 4 strokes. I am really interested in seeing how the 350 Side Valve Gas Gas goes - motor no taller than a 2t & with enough capacity to negate the lower flow of 2 side valves. I'm not anti 4t. I'm interested in all types of motor.
Look at what has happened with GPs - 250s being replaced with 600cc 4 strokes - Honda of course being the sole powerplant supplier....... Relevance to the market is cited, but with development of DFI (think the KTMs had a semi fuel injection on their 250, but they have pulled out in disgust - Honda had fuel injection on the 500 2 t a few times as well in the last few years of 500cc ) 2 strokes really do have relevance again - lets hope they don't kill off the 125 2t. Classically, after the last few years of indifference, Honda seem to be making a big effort to with the last 250gp championship ( it is their 50th year of WC racing ) providing Aoyama & a few others with very quick NS's
Honda IS the engineering company - witness so many of their projects. Even with their commitment to 4 strokes they still pursued 2t innovation - witness the EXP400 with the Activated Radical combustion process ( there are very informative tech papers on the net by the engineers who did it ). The EXP400 got 5th ( I think ) in the Dakar against the twins ( & even 4cyl Yams still ran then ). With a bike over 100lbs lighter, perhaps 10hp less than the works NX twins , but More torque. They also used less fuel than the 4ts! They did produce the CRM250AR - a dual sport bike from I think 97 to 2002- mainly for the Asian market but plenty found their way here to OZ & easy to find 2nd hand. With a race kit comprising a new head & chamber (=?) these performed, motor wise, not far below a CR of the time. Compared to XLs,XRs, XT, TT, DR, KLX they would make of joke of the 4ts, at least ,motorwise. So Honda certainly have the ability to bring out clean, great performing 2ts if they wanted at the tick of a boss's pen. But don't hold your breath for it to happen.
They reason why I got back onto a 500 in 03 was many fold, Street legal (10years too late), not going to be outdated by next years model syndrome, lots of spares from my earlier years riding them & bullet proof - these fitted well with my life of poverty as I changed careers & became a mature aged student ( yup, it's good being the dirty old man on campus - youth & beauty is wasted on the young - best thing is I've hooked up with a couple of their mums.... hmmmm , yummie Grumies) in my late 40s. Shit , my IMS tank is 20 years old, my Unic (Scotts to you) the same as was the last piston I put in, - found it wrapped in Honda paper hiding behind my mill - a good find! I'm not anti 4 stroke , just anti BS capacity rules - sitting 10 ft away from me are 2 rolling chassis, one an 83 RM floater that housed a variety of XR motors , the other a 89 CR 125 that had a XR200 bottom end mated to a TLR250 top end.
I doubt we will ever see a Honda 2 stroke again - electric bikes yes ( eg - Gas Gas management have implied they would being moving to electric before developing DFI 2ts) but it would be great to have a DFI, AR 500. Or any DFI, modern 2t - I hope KTM do bring out something new for 2011 model range. And with 2011 coming up, perhaps we may be in big trouble getting parts - our main thanks to SH may be that they may keep up enough demand for motor parts to keep us going long into the future.
Sorry for rambling on - I'm off- Diana Krall is on Elvis Costello's show - gotta have a perv at his wife - she's strangely cute..........that sneer she has when singing is quite alluring.
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Wheelie-Gene
- Posts: 311
- Joined: May 26th, 2008, 11:52 am
- Location: stick country-TX
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Yep....Honda has always been at the front of 4 stroke development. Look back many decades ago, anyone remember the 6 cylinder 125 and 250 road racers that Hailwood rode? Little pistons, tiny valves, and engines that revved to the moon. (And) who could ever forget the NR500, and NR750 (street version) with V4 engines, oval pistons and 32 valves. The race version would rev to 23K rpms (maybe it was something like 19K).
With all of Honda's 4T techno, they sure produced some nice smokers over the years. They had to fill a gap and that's what they came up with. The CR500 engine seems like it was built to power a tank. I purchased 2 junk cores when I started my conversion. Both had nasty-ass, old oil in the trannies....really led abused lives. I threw the parts in a basket, rinsed everything down in the washer.....and I was amazed that everything looked as if it came from a low-hour engine. Most of the bearings were loaded with junk, but all the gears and forks looked great.
So.....yes. They built a bulletproof engine and I'm sure replacement parts sales weren't comparable to other models.
Looks like we all need to start hording old junk (good) engines for those parts that we will need in decades to come.
With all of Honda's 4T techno, they sure produced some nice smokers over the years. They had to fill a gap and that's what they came up with. The CR500 engine seems like it was built to power a tank. I purchased 2 junk cores when I started my conversion. Both had nasty-ass, old oil in the trannies....really led abused lives. I threw the parts in a basket, rinsed everything down in the washer.....and I was amazed that everything looked as if it came from a low-hour engine. Most of the bearings were loaded with junk, but all the gears and forks looked great.
So.....yes. They built a bulletproof engine and I'm sure replacement parts sales weren't comparable to other models.
Looks like we all need to start hording old junk (good) engines for those parts that we will need in decades to come.
2nd gen SSS street hooligan
83 CR480
83 XL600
97 VFR750
Kawasaki H1-F
Suzuki Titan
HondaHarley
83 CB1100F
83 CR480
83 XL600
97 VFR750
Kawasaki H1-F
Suzuki Titan
HondaHarley
83 CB1100F
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JBaze
For all of the interest in the 500's, I can't believe that someone with some sandcasting skillz hasn't reverse engineered some of tthe components like cases and covers and what not and started selling off brand like oem engines and things like what S&S and Revtech did with Harley engines. If a person had the equipment and know how, it wouldn't be that hard I would think.
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searcher415
- Posts: 44
- Joined: December 18th, 2008, 10:04 pm
