Differences in Gen 1, 2, 3, 4 Handling

[dez500rider]

Hi,
I have searched this site and have gotten alot of good info.
I don't want to seem like i'm posting a topic I could have found the answers by looking.
But it may be better if I just ask my questions.....

What are the handling differences between the different Gen's?
How much improvements is there from one Gen to the other?
Can an inferior Gen be modified to get close to a superior Gen?

In some posts it seems like the difference is small, and others it's large.
Thanks for taking the time to give a detailed reply.

Dez500Rider

[Balaclava]

that's deffinately a question you can only get the answers properly by reading the TONS of threads on this site...being that i've read them all i've got a pretty good understanding of each gen frame, and every model (450,250,250f etc...).

gen 3 450 (first gen 450)- Best big guy bike out there, best for straight lining it but turning can be made much better with the 20mm offsets...only from what i've read, i've got 22 mm offsets on mine and it was an awesome controlling bike until i shattered my ankle on it...

gen4 450- Amazing looking conversions, never ridden one but imagine they can corner a little easier then a gen 3 450...conversion i'm talking about...mods are basically the same except the Y section is quite different...i would also say the gen 3 450 frame is overall larger, it just feels and looks like the biggest dirt bike ever made at that class...

gen5 450- have yet to see one

Gen1 250 - less parts for this old bike, stiffer riding and not as nimble...a great rider could easily tear this bike up as well as any other gen. EAsiest frame to mod, and basically can be done in two days or whatever the peole are saying...

gen2 - basically the same as a gen 3 as far as mods go, the y section is a little bit different to work with...and deffinately takes more time to coax a 500 into then a gen1 250...

gen3 - the 02-07 chassis is the best chassis period for putting a 500 engine into...rad mods are minimal, headstay mod is easy enough, the bottom mounts are still being used and airbox and airboot mods are not needed...125 swingarm bushings centre the engine perfectly...and extremely experienced conversionists praise this chassis for being the best controlling chassis with a 500 engine in it...if properly done of course.

250F's i'm not very familiar with, i feel like they would make a great conversion and service honda is now using this chassis i believe a gen 4 250f chassis has been the model of choice for some years now...there is not really a gen5 250f because only the 450f got changes for 09...from the looks of aliso bobs build it seems to be an amazing conversion choice...

125's are also something i'm not very familiar with because there really aren't many being done...Mike Facher at TTM has the best 125 conversion i've ever seen, and it's a beautiful thing...keep in mind that the 125 gen's basically are exactly the same as the 250 gens and both chassis are very very similar throughout the years (if i'm not mistaken)...biggest difference is the cradle on a 125...

hope that gets you started there are still sooo many ways you could compare these chassis'...

[dez500rider]

gen3 - the 02-07 chassis is the best chassis period for putting a 500 engine into...rad mods are minimal, headstay mod is easy enough, the bottom mounts are still being used and airbox and airboot mods are not needed...125 swingarm bushings centre the engine perfectly...and extremely experienced conversionists praise this chassis for being the best controlling chassis with a 500 engine in it...if properly done of course.

..

Balaclava,
Thanks for taking the time for the detailed reply.
I really appreciate it!

From the searching I have done, your quote above seems to the majority thinking.

I look forward to anymore opinions or comments on Balaclava reply.

Thanks Again.
Dez500Rider

[Mik329]

I would agree with everything that was posted. I have ridden every Gen out there except for the 09 CRF450. My opinion is if you are a desert rider and not over 6'2", I would go with the Gen 3 CR250. (easier conversion) I'm 6'3" 230lbs and my Gen 3 was a little small, but handled great. If you are more of a track guy or taller, I would go with a Gen 4 CRF250 chassis. I'm currently building one and there are a couple good threads on here on this type of build (alisobob's, danny's #1).

[Exnav]

Gen1 250 - less parts for this old bike, stiffer riding and not as nimble...a great rider could easily tear this bike up as well as any other gen. EAsiest frame to mod, and basically can be done in two days or whatever the peole are saying...

I haven't had any problems finding parts except for graphics and seats. But it is the oldest of the beer cans and this isn't going to improve.

[nmdesertrider]

Everyone has an opinion on this, so grain of salt and all that.

Gen 3 250-- best all-around handling bike, turns scary fast but also real stable at speed. Feels like a 250.

Gen 3 450-- I know this bike best cause I have one. If two stroke rear wheel turning style is your thing this bike does it best. It can turn quick but you have to know how. Not using offsets.

Gen 4 450-- more mountain-bikey front wheel turning feel to it.

That's all I have ridden. My buddy is putting together a TT 125 conversion and I will let you know what it is like.

[Exnav]

When funds free up, I would build a Gen 3 250, but each Gen has its' own benefits. Bob always says to build the latest Gen you can afford to build and there is not anything to argue with that thought.

[south central hoon]

assuming from your screen name we know the terrain you ride, but at what level? honestly...
hieght?
wieght?

these things all make a big difference in chassis preference.

i am 5' 6" and around 2 bills. i ride singletrack mostly and i prefer the gen 1 with close ratio gear box....geared 14/48.

[nmdesertrider]

6'4" and 220. I just started racing in the A class last year.

[Exnav]

dannygraves ought to get in on this since he has owned almost all of them

[Roostius_Maximus]

6'3" 220 havent rode my gen 3 250 yet, but have a 02 250 thats good feeling, sure is prone to headshake in a cultivated loose field compared to a steelie

[hoofarted]

Danny is working on getting his Gen3 done. So he'll have almost all of them. I have my Gen2 and love it...but have nothing to compare it to.

[dez500rider]

assuming from your screen name we know the terrain you ride, but at what level? honestly...
hieght?
wieght?

these things all make a big difference in chassis preference.

i am 5' 6" and around 2 bills. i ride singletrack mostly and i prefer the gen 1 with close ratio gear box....geared 14/48.

SC Hoon and All,
I ride he desert in and around Las Vegas.
Although ripping across the virgin terrain at speed feels like flying, it is very painful when the inevitable invisible rock, or barrell cactus sends you crashing into the ground. So since I like/need the rush but don't like the pain, my riding gets more and more technical. This way I have the same fear factor to get the blood flowing but if an unplanned dismount occurs, the body pays a smaller price tag. My buddies and I have been riding some of the coolest, gnarliest washes we can find. Not the kind of washes that are full of sand but the ones where there isn't really a line but it's more like survival thru the boulders, drop, shelves, stairsteps, etc.. I would say I'm a very good intermediate rider.
I am pretty big and strong. 240 lbs and 6'2". Need to drop a few lbs [like most of us] or just do some porting on the motor to help move the load around.
I enjoy single track, washes [most all kinds], extreme hill climbing, insane downhills and basically making a trail where it loks like you shouldn't even consider going. My buds ride smaller two strokes. The 4 strokes just don't work well in these conditions.
I have a 1994 CR500 geared 13/52. I loss alot of top end but can go granny slow when I need to in the technical stuff, which is alot of the time.
I have a limited budget, right now it's around zero, but this is my vice or addiction and I'm not looking for an intervention. Some times you spend 10-15% more and get 25-35% improvement. But simple and cheap is kinda my favor. And the enemy of good is perfect.
I love chicken cutlets and baked macaroni......ah, I'll stop here.
Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate it. I don't think I can get this type of honest answers from a non 500 site. I'm not a 250 rider, i'm a big bore junkie and that 500 is the spike in my arm. And I think there maybe quite a few of the career junkies in here.......
Thanks Bros!
Dez500Rider

[dez500rider]

Thanks for all the info and replies.

OK, I have refined my question.....

Since the Gen 1 is very simple, and the least expensive, I am leaning towards that directions since it's cheaper and easier.

BUT IF the handling difference between the Gen 1 and Gen 3 are great enough, then I will shoot for a Gen 3...more money and harder to do but it may be worth it. This is where I lack information......

In terms of handling, and possibility of upgrades,
How does the Gen 1 compare the Gen 3 and do you think the differences are that big and do you think it is worth the time and effort to do a Gen 3?

As always thanks for taking the time and effort to reply.
I have read most all the posts here that deal with this, but they seem to vary quite alot. In reality, there may be no one or two opinions that most agree upon.

Thanks
Dez500Rider

[Mik329]

The Gen 1 is far too rigid for my taste, but I'm more of a track guy. This is the only Gen I have not had with a 500 in it, I rode one with a 250 and did not like it at all. I think you could do better buying a Gen 2/3 in terms of getting more money for the parts you dont need. I bought a Gen 4 with a bad crank for a grand and have got all my money back on Ebay, so this is something to think about as well. If you're looking for a real easy build with minimal fab work, consider a Gen 2. Buy parts from Shanman, mook it up and you're off to the welder in a day. I bet if you take your time looking you could find one in the 1200 buck range and probably get at least half of that back selling the motor on Flebay.

[dez500rider]

The Gen 1 is far too rigid for my taste, but I'm more of a track guy. .

This may sound stupid but what exactly does 'too rigid' feel like? And how would it differ on a track vs. off road riding?

I think you could do better buying a Gen 2/3 in terms of getting more money for the parts you dont need.

But in terms handling alone,isn't a Gen 2 very close to a Gen 1?
And isn't a Gen 3 quite a bit better in terms of handling/suspension?

Thanks for the reply.
I appreciate it.

[Travis]

This is going to be something that cannot be explained well enough for you to make a decision. You will need to get on one of each and ride then to see the difference. You may not even notice a difference depends on how much you ride. I can tell you all are an improvement over the steelie.

[Mik329]

But in terms handling alone,isn't a Gen 2 very close to a Gen 1?
And isn't a Gen 3 quite a bit better in terms of handling/suspension?

Thanks for the reply.
I appreciate it.

I spent alot of time setting up my Gen 2 for outdoor mx tracks and felt that it handled very well. I spent little time setting up my Gen 3 and never got it as good as it could be, but I felt my Gen 2 handled just as well. I thought the Gen 1 suspension sucked and it turned crappy. This was not a bike set up my me and I'm sure it could have been better with set up time. You are going to get a ton if different opinions on this and rider skill level and size make each bike different. What felt like crap to me could feel bitchen to a guy just coming off of a stealy. There are a ton of guys on the board that love the Gen 1's and I'm sure you could make one do what you need it to with the right settings. Long story short, I would have to agree with Bob's statement of "build the latest chassis you can afford "; they just got better with every new model.

[Exnav]

I am pretty big and strong. 240 lbs and 6'2". Need to drop a few lbs [like most of us] or just do some porting on the motor to help move the load around.

At your size, you are going to need the suspension done for your weight so figure that in on any discussion of the Generations.