What will be the first thing we will lose?

[Travis]

With the new President in charge which thing that you love will be the first thing you lose. I have added an other option and if you choose this post what you think it will be.

[pimp559]

We will all be loosing our freedom of Religion soon. Omama's plan is for an Islamic America. He was recently photographed with a book called "The Post American World, Islamic America".

[south central hoon]

I hope we will lose underfunded schools, and undereducated kids.

[HrcRacing]

I hope we will lose underfunded schools, and undereducated kids.

There's something for the polls.

Maybe it's me but I think you give the president too much credit. I doubt very seriously that the world is going to come to an end because Obama was elected.

[dannygraves]

I hope we will lose underfunded schools, and undereducated kids.

dude, I used to work for 2 different school districts in CA and even wrote some grants. I can tell you right now the schools get TONS of money. money fed in from the federal, state and local governments isn't the problem, the school administrations are the problem.
sorry dude, but you are sounding like a typical left wing ass by assuming money needs to be thrown at every problem.
I worked for CUSD from '97-'02 off and on under IT contracts and was amazed when the superintendents office got all new color laserjets (so they could print pretty graphs and charts) while we had systems at schools that were 5+ years old and non operational. The only time the high schools got any computer hardware was when the digital high school grant came in and gave close to half a million to each high school that HAD to be spend on computer hardware. I don't think the kids at my old high school even realize that its only because of me and one other guy that they now have a digital video editing class and 3 computer labs instead of the 1 run down lab they had when I was a student. the best part about all of this was the principal of my old high school got arested for imbezeling and a couple year later so did the superintendent. now you tell me, is the ammount of money the problem or the assholes who decide where it goes???

[south central hoon]

I hope we will lose underfunded schools, and undereducated kids.

dude, I used to work for 2 different school districts in CA and even wrote some grants. I can tell you right now the schools get TONS of money. money fed in from the federal, state and local governments isn't the problem, the school administrations are the problem.
sorry dude, but you are sounding like a typical left wing ass by assuming money needs to be thrown at every problem.
I worked for CUSD from '97-'02 off and on under IT contracts and was amazed when the superintendents office got all new color laserjets (so they could print pretty graphs and charts) while we had systems at schools that were 5+ years old and non operational. The only time the high schools got any computer hardware was when the digital high school grant came in and gave close to half a million to each high school that HAD to be spend on computer hardware. I don't think the kids at my old high school even realize that its only because of me and one other guy that they now have a digital video editing class and 3 computer labs instead of the 1 run down lab they had when I was a student. the best part about all of this was the principal of my old high school got arested for imbezeling and a couple year later so did the superintendent. now you tell me, is the ammount of money the problem or the assholes who decide where it goes???

What district was this? What were the test scores like? to answer your question, both the money and the administrators are the problem. that is my point. there is not enough regulation on where the dollars go, so the ones that have it exploit it. i hope that changes.

we both want the same thing, right? better operating school systems that prepare american youth for the changing global economy....?

[dannygraves]

Capistrano Unified and Newport-Mesa

[dannygraves]

and yes, we do want the same things, I guess we both just want to take a different path to get there.
Sorry, if I get a little bitchy, I'm just so tired of hearing people go off about throwing money at problems, when %90 of the time the money alone isn't the problem and the underlying issues really need to see attention first. By all this I am really refering to the bail-out-cluster-fuck which put some asshole bankers in shiney resorts and kept a nice coat of gold on their parachutes, and my mother in law is still trying to work with the bank so we don't have to ditch the house

[south central hoon]

and yes, we do want the same things, I guess we both just want to take a different path to get there.
Sorry, if I get a little bitchy, I'm just so tired of hearing people go off about throwing money at problems, when %90 of the time the money alone isn't the problem and the underlying issues really need to see attention first. By all this I am really refering to the bail-out-cluster-fuck which put some asshole bankers in shiney resorts and kept a nice coat of gold on their parachutes, and my mother in law is still trying to work with the bank so we don't have to ditch the house

I hear that.
my folks are in the same boat in florida. the house they bought three years ago for 480,000 just appraised for 160,000.

over 4 grand a month mortgage.....

[Tayler89]

I hope we will lose underfunded schools, and undereducated kids.

Written by someone who is obviously completely ignorant of the true issues associated with lack of student success in schools! Tell me, where do you get your information? Currently we (US) spend more money per student than the rest of the world on education yet we rank close the bottom in regard to actually educating them. Good Idea, lets throw some more money at it.

One of the problems with education is everyone thinks they are an expert in the field. They truely believe they know becouse they went to school. NEWSFLASH......Just becouse you attended public education hardly qualifies you to know what it's like to be a teacher or an administrator. It arms you with just enough information to spout off and prove your true ignorance.

I have spent the last 15+ years of my life in public education as a teacher, counselor and administrator. I can truely tell you that the true issues in education are the following.....(and I will admit that much of what I am going to say is politically incorrect);

1. The federal government forces all children to attend school, whether or not their parents, or them, want to.....students who do not value the education you are offering will not internalize what you teach them, no matter how good the education or the teachers are!

2. The public school system is targeted for, and designed around, college prep. I know this sounds crazy, but not all childern plan on, or want to go to college! How about basic education till say 8th grade, and then options for college prep, votech education, or even job corps. All of which could meet the requirements for graduation.

3. With entitlement programs as prevelant as they are, there is no incentive for success. Daily, I speak to students who have no motivation to succeed in school since they are "planning on living on welfare like my parents."

THESE STUDENTS/PARENTS DON'T WANT WHAT IS BEING OFFERED. Yet later in life blame the education system for their failure to recieve an education.

Another point I would make is this:
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT OR AUTHORITY TO SAVE PEOPLE FROM THEMSELVES, and this is what happens when they try.

The point is that if public education was run in the manner it was intended we would see success. Here is the fix..... It's simple but will never be done:
Here is your free public education come and get it if you want it, but if you come, these are the rules and behaviors that are acceptable, if you cannot adhere to them you forfeit your rights. PROBLEM SOLVED!!

I could go on and on. If you actually would like to know the truth, then ask, but don't make an ass out of yourself assuming you know something you don't. I would gladly debate educational issues with you comprehensively..... and I would always be right .

If you think Obama can fix education by providing more funding and holding teachers to higher standards you're a retard!

[teemtrubble]

Nice first post Taylor89....

Go to the introduction section and post up for us and by the way "Welcome" in advance

[AlisoBob]

Nice first post Taylor89....

Go to the introduction section and post up for us and by the way "Welcome" in advance

X2


I read somewhere that the LAUSD spends something like $12k per student, per year.... K-12

$12k per year puts you in some pretty fine private schools....

[south central hoon]

I hope we will lose underfunded schools, and undereducated kids.

Written by someone who is obviously completely ignorant of the true issues associated with lack of student success in schools! Tell me, where do you get your information? Currently we (US) spend more money per student than the rest of the world on education yet we rank close the bottom in regard to actually educating them. Good Idea, lets throw some more money at it.

One of the problems with education is everyone thinks they are an expert in the field. They truely believe they know becouse they went to school. NEWSFLASH......Just becouse you attended public education hardly qualifies you to know what it's like to be a teacher or an administrator. It arms you with just enough information to spout off and prove your true ignorance.

I have spent the last 15+ years of my life in public education as a teacher, counselor and administrator. I can truely tell you that the true issues in education are the following.....(and I will admit that much of what I am going to say is politically incorrect);

1. The federal government forces all children to attend school, whether or not their parents, or them, want to.....students who do not value the education you are offering will not internalize what you teach them, no matter how good the education or the teachers are!

2. The public school system is targeted for, and designed around, college prep. I know this sounds crazy, but not all childern plan on, or want to go to college! How about basic education till say 8th grade, and then options for college prep, votech education, or even job corps. All of which could meet the requirements for graduation.

3. With entitlement programs as prevelant as they are, there is no incentive for success. Daily, I speak to students who have no motivation to succeed in school since they are "planning on living on welfare like my parents."

THESE STUDENTS/PARENTS DON'T WANT WHAT IS BEING OFFERED. Yet later in life blame the education system for their failure to recieve an education.

Another point I would make is this:
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT OR AUTHORITY TO SAVE PEOPLE FROM THEMSELVES, and this is what happens when they try.

The point is that if public education was run in the manner it was intended we would see success. Here is the fix..... It's simple but will never be done:
Here is your free public education come and get it if you want it, but if you come, these are the rules and behaviors that are acceptable, if you cannot adhere to them you forfeit your rights. PROBLEM SOLVED!!

I could go on and on. If you actually would like to know the truth, then ask, but don't make an ass out of yourself assuming you know something you don't. I would gladly debate educational issues with you comprehensively..... and I would always be right .

If you think Obama can fix education by providing more funding and holding teachers to higher standards you're a retard!

As a University Educator myself (California State University, Long Beach and Loyola Marymount University) I get the students in college that come from educators with your defeatist attitude all the time. its sad. you should retire, or find another line of work. it obviously does not service you, and i fear for the children that come from your institution.

your simplistic analysis of public education is skimming the surface a cultural quandary based upon inactive parents, and beaten down educators like you. the problem is not the kids, or the money. it never has been, it never will be. the problem is the lack of value in the culture for education...ask teemtrubble if his kids are having trouble in school. ask, SOLID, Ask BOB. they are active parents, with disciplined children...i could go on as well but all this pragmatism is boring and this is a dirtbike website.

[Tayler89]

As a University Educator myself (California State University, Long Beach and Loyola Marymount University) I get the students in college that come from educators with your defeatist attitude all the time. its sad. you should retire, or find another line of work. it obviously does not service you, and i fear for the children that come from your institution.

your simplistic analysis of public education is skimming the surface a cultural quandary based upon inactive parents, and beaten down educators like you. the problem is not the kids, or the money. it never has been, it never will be. the problem is the lack of value in the culture for education...ask teemtrubble if his kids are having trouble in school. ask, SOLID, Ask BOB. they are active parents, with disciplined children...i could go on as well but all this pragmatism is boring and this is a dirtbike website.

[/quote]


Once again you make an ass out of yourself since you assume you know something you have no knowledge of. You would be hard pressed to find a teacher I supervise that beileves I am beaten down or a burt out defeatest; nor would you find one of my students that beilieves that either. Just so you are aware, realism doesn't equate to deafeatism.

As for my simplistic view.....how deep would you like to get? If you recall from my original post "I could go on and on."

As for the problem not being the kids or money, but the parents and culture not valuing education, we agree!

Oh and, I did go to college......Masters plus alot, would you like me to provide my transcript? Personally, it's just a bunch of hoops to jump through in an effort to reach my carreer goals. It certainly is no indication of intelligence.

By the way I was born and raised in central Montana and love to ride my AF.....It happens to be my favorite thing to do in the world. I just wish I was better at it!!!!!!

[NightBiker07]

sorry, but if you made attending school "optional" 99% of kids wouldnt attend, and your country would be full of dumbfucks, living on the welfare that 1% of the populace provided.

as smart as i am now, i can honestly say that given the choice as a child, i wouldnt have attended school if i didnt have to.

because kids are forced to go to school, most teens can read and write, and do math to some extent. even if they dont care and fail, they still learn a bit.

[south central hoon]

As a University Educator myself (California State University, Long Beach and Loyola Marymount University) I get the students in college that come from educators with your defeatist attitude all the time. its sad. you should retire, or find another line of work. it obviously does not service you, and i fear for the children that come from your institution.

your simplistic analysis of public education is skimming the surface a cultural quandary based upon inactive parents, and beaten down educators like you. the problem is not the kids, or the money. it never has been, it never will be. the problem is the lack of value in the culture for education...ask teemtrubble if his kids are having trouble in school. ask, SOLID, Ask BOB. they are active parents, with disciplined children...i could go on as well but all this pragmatism is boring and this is a dirtbike website.

Once again you make an ass out of yourself since you assume you know something you have no knowledge of. You would be hard pressed to find a teacher I supervise that beileves I am beaten down or a burt out defeatest; nor would you find one of my students that beilieves that either. Just so you are aware, realism doesn't equate to deafeatism.

As for my simplistic view.....how deep would you like to get? If you recall from my original post "I could go on and on."

As for the problem not being the kids or money, but the parents and culture not valuing education, we agree!

Oh and, I did go to college......Masters plus alot, would you like me to provide my transcript? Personally, it's just a bunch of hoops to jump through in an effort to reach my carreer goals. It certainly is no indication of intelligence.

By the way I was born and raised in central Montana and love to ride my AF.....It happens to be my favorite thing to do in the world. I just wish I was better at it!!!!!!

[/quote]

Taylor, do you have realistic answers then? Optional education is probably the most ludicrous option i have ever heard of. think your taxes are high now? try tripling the unemployment rate because of uneducated workers unable to hold jobs....WTF!!!??? doesn't montana still have more sheep than kids anyway? HEY BRIT YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DO WITH THE SHEEP IN MONTANA!!!!

[Tayler89]

sorry, but if you made attending school "optional" 99% of kids wouldnt attend, and your country would be full of dumbfucks, living on the welfare that 1% of the populace provided.

as smart as i am now, i can honestly say that given the choice as a child, i wouldnt have attended school if i didnt have to.

because kids are forced to go to school, most teens can read and write, and do math to some extent. even if they dont care and fail, they still learn a bit.

Agreed, the problem has been stated as a cultural one, where parents are not instilling the true value of education.

Just because children are forced into school and learn to read somewhat doesn't mean that we can force them to excell or they will excell by chance. One needs to understand the inherent value of the education, to do that.

My point is that things being the way they are, you will never be able to have all students excell in school like some believe.

Also, it is my personal beilef that forcing parents to send their kids to school is unconstitutional. I completely understand your point, but doing so removes the very liberties that the constitution provides. Just becouse you believe it is best for the country, as I do also, does not give you the right to force it. That equates to forcing your belief system on someone else.

The preamble to the Constitution says "promote the gerneral welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty."

What that means is that we can promote the general welfare but we cannot do it at the expense of personal liberties.

That is how we slowly but surely loose our liberties......under the guise of something wonderful.

THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAVE PEOPLE FROM THEMSELVES.

That is what seperates the United States from every other democracy in the world.

Most people think this country is based on Democracy....Not True!!
We don't have the Statue of Democracy, or the Democracy Bell. We have the Statue of Liberty and the Liberty Bell. Our Democracy/Republic was established with limited powers to insure the peoples liberties were protected above all all else.

All people would be better off if they understood this.

[Tayler89]

Taylor, do you have realistic answers then? Optional education is probably the most ludicrous option i have ever heard of. think your taxes are high now? try tripling the unemployment rate because of uneducated workers unable to hold jobs....WTF!!!??? doesn't montana still have more sheep than kids anyway? HEY BRIT YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DO WITH THE SHEEP IN MONTANA!!!!

That's interesting since many educational systems that are more successful than ours, and spending much less money, are providing just those options. But if you say they are ludicrous......it must be.

Cattle

[arleybeer40]

Keep talkin

[quantum500]

THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAVE PEOPLE FROM THEMSELVES.

Dude you fuckin' rock and no one can prove other wise!

[iggys-amsoil]

THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAVE PEOPLE FROM THEMSELVES.

Dude you fuckin' rock and no one can prove other wise!

Oh but they sure dam well think they do.

[Travis]

I didn't expect the post to go toward the educational side. But I think this is awesome. So it looks like new taxes is the winner so far with 66% of the vote.

[dannygraves]

and yes, we do want the same things, I guess we both just want to take a different path to get there.
Sorry, if I get a little bitchy, I'm just so tired of hearing people go off about throwing money at problems, when %90 of the time the money alone isn't the problem and the underlying issues really need to see attention first. By all this I am really refering to the bail-out-cluster-fuck which put some asshole bankers in shiney resorts and kept a nice coat of gold on their parachutes, and my mother in law is still trying to work with the bank so we don't have to ditch the house

I hear that.
my folks are in the same boat in florida. the house they bought three years ago for 480,000 just appraised for 160,000.

over 4 grand a month mortgage.....

ya, my mother in law paid 550 for a house that can't sell for 300 now...$4300/mo where is HER bailout?!

[dannygraves]

sorry, but if you made attending school "optional" 99% of kids wouldnt attend, and your country would be full of dumbfucks, living on the welfare that 1% of the populace provided.

as smart as i am now, i can honestly say that given the choice as a child, i wouldnt have attended school if i didnt have to.

because kids are forced to go to school, most teens can read and write, and do math to some extent. even if they dont care and fail, they still learn a bit.

I have to disagree. I lived in hungary 3 times totalling close to 3 years and went to public school while there.
School is optional after 8th grade and schools rank differently and specialize in different subjects. students have to test in to get accepted in their elementary and highschool of choice. they have a different mentality and every student had to try to get into that school and by failing they will not only let down their teachers and school admins and parrents, but themselves and their future. they take school VERY seriously. not a single student failed any classes my freshmen year there.
they don't have anywhere near the funding we do, infact students HAVE TO BUY THEIR OWN BOOKS and pay for their own lunches and even the computer lab was donated by a local computer shop and a bunch of parents.
MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM. if students don't wanty to be there let them go... In hungary the go because they want to be successful and they want to please their parents and if they stopped going their parents would disown them anyway.

I graduated from San Clemente Highschool in 2001 we had 41 valedictorians, every type of AP and honors class and shit for average test score. I know I kicked ass at the stanford 9, SAT and every other standardised test we had... you know why our scores were low, the mexican kids. not because they were from mexico, but because non of them wanted to be there and none of them thought school would get them anywhere. we had a crap load of ESL student who refused to speak english and took basic high school math (5th -7th grade math fractions and shit) while I was taking AP trig and pre calc.

I say let the kids whop don't want to be there leave!

[britincali]

ya, my mother in law paid 550 for a house that can't sell for 300 now...$4300/mo where is HER bailout?!

"THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAVE PEOPLE FROM THEMSELVES. "