M.F.D.B. wrote:
Now who needs the power knap?? Chucklehead, if you went from stock to the SAME SIZE aftermarket you would be saving MORE mass then you are now...
But that kinda defeats the purpose of what I'm trying doesn't it? It's hard to try a 15/52 combo with a 14 tooth sprocket
MICK wrote: To go to a smaller pitch chain than a 520 means changing the length as well (520-420).
SO??
MICK wrote:Now you've got to add links to make the reach. Because the links are shorter you've got to add teeth to the sprocket to acheive your original gearing.
M.F.D.B. wrote:Uhh...im not sure where to start...ok here goes, gear RATIO is just that a RATIO. You take the large gear and devide it by the small. So I have a question for you:
1) If you have 2 CS sprockets and 2 rear sprockets, the CS's are both 2" in diameter and the rears are both 6".
Again this is why it's a waist of time. They weigh the same! You spend that much money and save 2 ounces of unsprung weight! No dice brother It could be worth a shot, but like I said I wasn't able to find a company that would make it happen. Maybe you do?
M.F.D.B. wrote: If you got the scratch to buy all that titanium, you got enough to have 420 gears made. Question is, does anyone make a 420 chain strong enough?? If not, I know there are Titanium 520's...
I spent $110 on Ti parts. Tell me where I can get custom built sprockets for that? I can get the chain no problem...but the sprockets I'm left with my hands in my pockets.
Uh, interesting discussion. Anyways, with the 15 tooth the chain is too close to the case for my taste. I don't feel like buggering up my case. Plus it brings the rear wheel farther forward than I want.
I'll go with a (14) 47 rear and call it a day. I'd rather extend the wheelbase than shorten it.
On another note I really don't see the point in gearing down a 60hp beast like a CR500 and turn it into a 35 mph single track bike. That seems a bit like swatting at flys with a sledge hammer to me. I also can't really get behind the idea of reving such a motor to achieve controllability. I just don't ride that way or in those conditions. If I did I'd probably get a trials bike or perhaps a nice bicycle!
FZ1426 wrote:Uh, interesting discussion. Anyways, with the 15 tooth the chain is too close to the case for my taste. I don't feel like buggering up my case. Plus it brings the rear wheel farther forward than I want.
I'll go with a (14) 47 rear and call it a day. I'd rather extend the wheelbase than shorten it.
On another note I really don't see the point in gearing down a 60hp beast like a CR500 and turn it into a 35 mph single track bike. That seems a bit like swatting at flys with a sledge hammer to me. I also can't really get behind the idea of reving such a motor to achieve controllability. I just don't ride that way or in those conditions. If I did I'd probably get a trials bike or perhaps a nice bicycle!
you're not really getting what I am saying. The 500 makes the most power right from idle (MFDB, where is your dyno sheet?) so if you are keeping in lower in the rpm range every crack of the throttle is gonna try to kick you off. with the 500 as it revs it becomes quite a bit more tame and loses a lot of throttle response thus making it more controlable. Trust me I've got a big ol' pile of sprockets, everything from 53 to 45 and 15 front and so far I think stock or close to it is best. I run 14/48 (because its a '90 motor with a close ratio 4th and 5th) on my trail bike and 14/49 on my dunes bike. I used to run 14/47 on my dunes bike, but it made my 2nd gear launches a bit too tall and threw me into an uncontrolable wheelie. I don't know where you ride, if it is strait open desert and you want to do 100mph wheelies for miles, than 15/45 by all means. I ride some hairy shit, but still need 5th for haulin' in the gravel washes, so I found close to stock to work out best, if I was strait ST I'd run like 14/53.
'09 kx450f 4-Poke
Gen-4 trail bike --SOLD--
Gen-3 badass trail/mx bike --SOLD--
Gen-1 built dunes bike --SOLD--
'05 klx110 --SOLD--
'95 pw80
I run a 15 48, we do mostly fast stuff and it is a big plus in the whoops to have that wide space between gears. You can flip the bike pretty easy in the whoops with a 14.
nmdesertrider wrote:I run a 15 48, we do mostly fast stuff and it is a big plus in the whoops to have that wide space between gears. You can flip the bike pretty easy in the whoops with a 14.
I dont know about your 500 but mine has enough nuts to flip easily in ANY GEAR and with any ratio I have run. In fact, I dont even wheelie the thing till im in 4th or 5th gear cuz its too snappy. And although im not the best wheelie guy, I have dont a few, so I think I know what im talkin bout...
15 CS is for high speed open desert. I run 14/51 and it works great ALL OVER. If I was going to AZ single track it again I would go 13 front to save my left hand. Who the F*&K needs to go 100mph in the friggin dirt?? Hope you got lotsa skills, cuz that shit would scare the cheez wiz outta me, and I like to go fast!!
Faster then Speedy Gonzalez, slower then the Road Runner!!! MEEP MEEP
so dude, speaking of wheelies and going too fast... Are we riding next weekend. I figure this weekend is out because of Danielle's surgery, and I think Jason got himseld in trouble with the wifey last weekend.
'09 kx450f 4-Poke
Gen-4 trail bike --SOLD--
Gen-3 badass trail/mx bike --SOLD--
Gen-1 built dunes bike --SOLD--
'05 klx110 --SOLD--
'95 pw80
dannygraves wrote:so dude, speaking of wheelies and going too fast... Are we riding next weekend. I figure this weekend is out because of Danielle's surgery, and I think Jason got himseld in trouble with the wifey last weekend.
I swapped the tires so whenever is good with me. Wheelies are dangerous; lack of control, vison, and reaction time all BAD. Do you hear me boys and girls...BAD umkaayy!!
Faster then Speedy Gonzalez, slower then the Road Runner!!! MEEP MEEP
dannygraves wrote:so dude, speaking of wheelies and going too fast... Are we riding next weekend. I figure this weekend is out because of Danielle's surgery, and I think Jason got himseld in trouble with the wifey last weekend.
I swapped the tires so whenever is good with me. Wheelies are dangerous; lack of control, vison, and reaction time all BAD. Do you hear me boys and girls...BAD umkaayy!!
ya, a responsible rider like you would NEVER do wheelies! That would just be dangerous, and definitly not haul ass through whoops, then pin it in 5th through dangerous rock filled gravel washes! A safe guy like you would definitly not do any of these things especially w/o health insurance! That would make you some sort of insane risk taker who one might refer to as a "HOON"
'09 kx450f 4-Poke
Gen-4 trail bike --SOLD--
Gen-3 badass trail/mx bike --SOLD--
Gen-1 built dunes bike --SOLD--
'05 klx110 --SOLD--
'95 pw80
dannygraves wrote: ya, a responsible rider like you would NEVER do wheelies! That would just be dangerous, and definitly not haul ass through whoops, then pin it in 5th through dangerous rock filled gravel washes! A safe guy like you would definitly not do any of these things especially w/o health insurance! That would make you some sort of insane risk taker who one might refer to as a "HOON"
Ya, not to mention 5th gear pinned wheelies OVER rocky whoops, I wouldnt even THINK of that!!
Faster then Speedy Gonzalez, slower then the Road Runner!!! MEEP MEEP
M.F.D.B. wrote:
How does the size of your gears effect your wheelbase??
he is not adding links to the chain, instead pushing the rear wheel forward.
It was a retoricle question, anyone who does things RIGHT would add a link or remove one as appropriate...
Thats like saying you want to put new gears on but your chain is used so you are going to wait till it snaps...
After having put on a 15 and seeing the lack of case clearance it is safe to say anyone who does things right wouldn't put a 15 on in the first place regardless of chain length/wheelbase. I sure as hell wouldn't run two master links either, and replacing the chain nullifies the whole point of easy and/or semi economical gearing changes.
FZ1426 wrote:
I sure as hell wouldn't run two master links
Why not?? You have ONE aleady right??
It would just bug me. Maybe a holdout from bad memories from my early days of the dreaded worn out master link coming loose and ruining a weekend riding trip. It seems the master link is the weakest link, and having two doubles the chance of a problem. Maybe something I oughta get over but it just seems kinda cheesy to me. Like, if you can't afford the right size chain maybe you should get a cheaper hobby...
Like you said, a chain is only as strong as the weakest link. Strength wise a master link isnt necesarily weaker if the clip doesnt fail. Having more then one doesnt make the chain any weaker or more prone to failure as long as POROPER MAINTENANCE is practiced which includes frequent inspection.
Truth is, the BEST thing to do is have gear "sets" for each ratio. That means front/rear gears and chain as a "set". Gears and chains are like cams and lifters. You arnt suppose to mix new and old as they "wear in" to eachother and doing so accelerates wear and increases failure rate.
Insufficient chain slack will cause far more problems then 2 master links...
I do BOTH wrong. I use 2 master links and swap gears on the same chain. Been doing it for years with ZERO failures...
Faster then Speedy Gonzalez, slower then the Road Runner!!! MEEP MEEP
I went riding yesterday instead of this weekend. Swapped gears three times and burnt up five gallons of gas riding around in circles on a 1.5 mile track. All the rain Florida has been getting has made for awsome riding! The 15/52 gearing does pull harder than 14/49. But it doesn't pull hard enough. I still don't have the desired effect from each gear I want. So the question remained in my head whether the 15/52 pulled harder just because the combo is over 1.5 lbs lighter than my old 14/49 setup. In the later hours of the day I began running a 14/52 combination and was much more pleased. I had a lot more flexibility and room for adjustment. I didn't like having to scream the motor that much down the straights as it takes longer for the motor to wind down requiring me to cut the throttle sooner. But it was more effective than using either a 14/49 or 15/52. I'll be getting a good 14/50-51 setup I think and enjoing it.
But I'm confused FZ1426 why you think there is clearance issues with a 15? Unless you're running something I'm unfamiliar with, this Pro Taper 15t had clearance for days...and days. In concert with my non o-ring chain I can't for the life of me see an issue here?
I don't know what days and days is, and I didn't actually measure the clearance, but it looked to me like about .050" max with a 15 tooth AFAM sprocket.
Not enough clearance for my taste. Plus I would have had to trim the case protector down to the point of uselessness to run it. It would work, but like I said I didn't want to F up my nice virgin case over it. Not when a 14/47 would be fine for me. Part of my curiosity involved trying to do gearing changes with as little effect on wheelbase as possible. I thought that because the countershaft was only a one tooth change it wouldn't move the rear wheel as much as a 2-3 tooth change on the rear.
I was basically reminded that there's no free lunch. I suspect there's some engineering types out there who could point out mathematically that changing the countershaft (one) will change the wheelbase the same as a proportionate change (2-3 tooth) to the rear sprocket. Duh!
A non-oring chain is much thinner then an o-ring, but should be much the same height. You guys are prolly seeing variations in case and protector dimention and sprocket/chain wear. Unless you are looking for MAJOR top end there is no reason to run a 15. Like I stated before, I run 14/51 and it works great for just about everything, and I bet I could do 100mph...
Faster then Speedy Gonzalez, slower then the Road Runner!!! MEEP MEEP
FZ1426 wrote:but it looked to me like about .050" max with a 15 tooth AFAM sprocket.
Not enough clearance for my taste. Plus I would have had to trim the case protector down to the point of uselessness to run it.
Yes what we are running is obviously nothing alike. I'm working with parts built in Mars and you're working with Venus imports...my 15t sprocket requires little modification. All but 1.5mm off the center of the case saver remains untouched. Clearance perpendicular to the cases is unchanged, and as mentioned in regards to the case saver clearance parallel to the chain is only slightly decreased. Certainly nothing alarming.
But that kinda defeats the purpose of what I'm trying doesn't it? It's hard to try a 15/52 combo with a 14 tooth sprocket 
Oh boy, all this reverse engineering. I think I'll go hit the track.
Yes what we are running is obviously nothing alike. I'm working with parts built in Mars and you're working with Venus imports...my 15t sprocket requires little modification. All but 1.5mm off the center of the case saver remains untouched. Clearance perpendicular to the cases is unchanged, and as mentioned in regards to the case saver clearance parallel to the chain is only slightly decreased. Certainly nothing alarming.