Service Honda Bikes

[Slow old Fart]

Bob is right about this, Cr 500 riders.com promotes these bikes which are good but not great. And for the money should be better.

You have got to give Service Honda some credit however they are keeping the big bore 2 stroke alive in the mainstream which is good so that one day a manufacturer may bring them back with the state of the art attention they deserve.

[britincali]

You have got to give Service Honda some credit however they are keeping the big bore 2 stroke alive in the mainstream which is good so that one day a manufacturer may bring them back with the state of the art attention they deserve.

[ShanMan]

Bob is right about this, Cr 500 riders.com promotes these bikes which are good but not great. And for the money should be better.

You have got to give Service Honda some credit however they are keeping the big bore 2 stroke alive in the mainstream which is good so that one day a manufacturer may bring them back with the state of the art attention they deserve.

Sadly, that is likely to never, ever happen other than as a boutique bike only...and for high dollars. If any one of us wanted to get into the business, and really did our homework, you would quickly find that it would be difficult if not impossible to charge much less than SH charges and still be able to feed your kids and make a mortgage payment. You guys are the ones who will be carrying on the big bore two strokes in future years...DIY's and those with deep pockets and a love of open-class power with no valves...pure and simple IMO.

Regardless what you think about Service Honda these days...AJ Waggoner is a nice guy and a fellow hoon who really made all of the AF stuff possible thorugh his work at SH over the years and the exposure to the concept in general. I have spoken to the man several times and can attest to the fact that he is both knowledgable and friendly. But, just like most of us, he has a boss and a budget. I agree that the price for a SH CR500AF these days is rediculous...and that the apparent quality seems sub-par, particularly for those prices.

Don't second guess AJ's work however...he knows his stuff. Ever seen his personal bikes? I have seen one up close (gen two) and was a very nice piece. he is one of us, but he still has to make a living boys. He chooses to build SH bikes a certain way because he builds many of them and has to do so affordably...to maintain profit margins for SH. Unfortunately, instead of welcoming him into the community, BOTH here and CR500riders...as it should be, he only feels comfortable there....which is a bummer because his opinions and experiences are incredibly valuable and relevent.

Between getting banned from the other site for no good reason whatsoever and listening to many people rag on guys like AJ here I am starting to think we all need to ride more, type less, and get over ourselves just a bit.

OUT.

[AlisoBob]

I have spoken to the man several times and can attest to the fact that he is both knowledgable and friendly.

Yup... I still get called a AJ hater......

No truth in that at all....

[dannygraves]

Yeah, AJ has openly given me some really good advise! Hes a hoon in my book, I'm sure there is alot more behind the scenes we don't know about.

When I was at Coastline Micro every server that came out of the place had my name on it, similar to how AJs name is on every SH bike. Well, my boss decided to cut costs (on a SAN storage device that they already made great margins on) by going with a cheaper desktop drive instead of server "eneterprise edition" drives. I mentioned a compatability problem with the drives and RAID controllers, but it was intermitent. Guess what, a crap load of servers came back under warranty and cost the place a ton of money, and the clients kept asking ME why I installed those drives.... I think we're seeing a similar situation. SH probably brought in some highschool autoshop students learning how to weld for $5/hr to keep the assembly line going.

[britincali]

Between getting banned from the other site for no good reason whatsoever and listening to many people rag on guys like AJ here I am starting to think we all need to ride more, type less, and get over ourselves just a bit.

OUT.

[Slow old Fart]

Bob is right about this, Cr 500 riders.com promotes these bikes which are good but not great. And for the money should be better.

You have got to give Service Honda some credit however they are keeping the big bore 2 stroke alive in the mainstream which is good so that one day a manufacturer may bring them back with the state of the art attention they deserve.

Sadly, that is likely to never, ever happen other than as a boutique bike only...and for high dollars. If any one of us wanted to get into the business, and really did our homework, you would quickly find that it would be difficult if not impossible to charge much less than SH charges and still be able to feed your kids and make a mortgage payment. You guys are the ones who will be carrying on the big bore two strokes in future years...DIY's and those with deep pockets and a love of open-class power with no valves...pure and simple IMO.

Regardless what you think about Service Honda these days...AJ Waggoner is a nice guy and a fellow hoon who really made all of the AF stuff possible thorugh his work at SH over the years and the exposure to the concept in general. I have spoken to the man several times and can attest to the fact that he is both knowledgable and friendly. But, just like most of us, he has a boss and a budget. I agree that the price for a SH CR500AF these days is rediculous...and that the apparent quality seems sub-par, particularly for those prices.

Don't second guess AJ's work however...he knows his stuff. Ever seen his personal bikes? I have seen one up close (gen two) and was a very nice piece. he is one of us, but he still has to make a living boys. He chooses to build SH bikes a certain way because he builds many of them and has to do so affordably...to maintain profit margins for SH. Unfortunately, instead of welcoming him into the community, BOTH here and CR500riders...as it should be, he only feels comfortable there....which is a bummer because his opinions and experiences are incredibly valuable and relevent.

Between getting banned from the other site for no good reason whatsoever and listening to many people rag on guys like AJ here I am starting to think we all need to ride more, type less, and get over ourselves just a bit.

OUT.

A lot of guy's I know are going or trying to go back to 2 strokes. If there is a big enough call and some capitalism left in the world you could see a come back.

I have a CRf250 right now and I am dumping it in a trade this week because of some of the issues with them. I will buy a 4 stroke but only as a play bike. They are great until you try and make them run with a 2 stroke and then they have to many issues and alot of guy's over the last 5 yeras are tired of them, Any one thing goes wrong with these new 4jokes and you are down for the day with no easy fix and alot of guy's are tired of it.

[AlisoBob]

I have a CRf250 right now and I am dumping it in a trade

CR500 A/F , dude!

[Slow old Fart]

I have a CRf250 right now and I am dumping it in a trade

CR500 A/F , dude!

I already have a 2003 CRF450 cr 500 and a 2005 CRF450 cr 500 so I have plenty of AF's already.

I have a trade lined up on a bombadier 250 quad 2006 and a big wheel TTR 125 for it and I want the TTR 125 and will dump the quad.

[Ported&Polished]

2 strokes will never come back, sorry. Yes people will ride them, build them etc. but the manafacturers won't make them ever again. Making motorbikes is a business, and companies like Honda are in it for the money. 2 strokes just don't equate to as much income, that's the main reason they started making 4 strokes. Take for example the initial cost of a bike now as compared to 10 years ago. the 2 stroke techknowlogy was stagnant and hadn't changed in 15 years, so folks in the market for a new bike couldn't be expected to pay more money each year for basically the same machine. Now look at the aftermarket and the service end of bike sales. A 2 stroke pipe has cost between 150 and 200 dollars for 20 years. With the 4 stokes comes the opertunity for companies to make a new pipe and charge whatever they want for it, it's a whole new market. Is a 4 stroke pipe worth much more than a 2 stroke pipe based on the materials and techknowlogy they have? No, but it's new and improved supposedly, and has no previous pricing levels to compare too, so they charge more. And with service, not only are the machines more complicated forcing folks to take them in for service, but there are many more parts needed for a complete service. The entire industry wins with 4 strokes because the consumer pays more all around the board to own and ride a dirtbike. Just look at the dirtbike industry these days, it's booming, and more consumers are into the scene since the early 70's. And look at the average dirtbike consumer. Instead of middle income folks with pick ups and tents going to the desert, it's folks with 300,000 dollar deisel pushers, matching toy boxes, and a stash of bikes and buggies. Going to Glamis these days looks like a RV convention is in town. It used to be you would see a ton of poor folks riding clapped out bikes and hundreds of chicanos riding beat up ATCs. Now this is just my opinion, take it for what it's worth because I'm not posting this to sound like I have all the answers.

[Slow old Fart]

In the long run they will dry up their own business and price themselves out of the market.

[2weelz]

P&P is right...I totally agree.

[HrcRacing]

Yep, it's all marketing and corporate greed. As Fart alludes to, it will be interesting to see the long term effects of this.

With the FIM pushing 2-strokes and the AMA changing amatuer rules to be more 2-stroke friendly, maybe there is a glimmer of hope. More likely, it's a case of too little, too late.

[ShanMan]

the concept that is the two stroke is so incredibly superior to the four-stroke in terms of HP/liter that I find it hard to believe that the technology will be allowed to die entirely.

That said, the only way we are likely to see them again is when they convert them to FI (Chrysler did long ago BTW), even for off-road applications. Even then, there comes a point when you strap enough no-go hardware on the engine to clean it up that it loses the majority of the benifits it once had over the four-stroke. ADVANTAGE four stroke...by beurocratic design.

[mxracr121]

2 strokes will never come back, sorry. Yes people will ride them, build them etc. but the manafacturers won't make them ever again. Making motorbikes is a business, and companies like Honda are in it for the money. 2 strokes just don't equate to as much income, that's the main reason they started making 4 strokes. Take for example the initial cost of a bike now as compared to 10 years ago. the 2 stroke techknowlogy was stagnant and hadn't changed in 15 years, so folks in the market for a new bike couldn't be expected to pay more money each year for basically the same machine. Now look at the aftermarket and the service end of bike sales. A 2 stroke pipe has cost between 150 and 200 dollars for 20 years. With the 4 stokes comes the opertunity for companies to make a new pipe and charge whatever they want for it, it's a whole new market. Is a 4 stroke pipe worth much more than a 2 stroke pipe based on the materials and techknowlogy they have? No, but it's new and improved supposedly, and has no previous pricing levels to compare too, so they charge more. And with service, not only are the machines more complicated forcing folks to take them in for service, but there are many more parts needed for a complete service. The entire industry wins with 4 strokes because the consumer pays more all around the board to own and ride a dirtbike. Just look at the dirtbike industry these days, it's booming, and more consumers are into the scene since the early 70's. And look at the average dirtbike consumer. Instead of middle income folks with pick ups and tents going to the desert, it's folks with 300,000 dollar deisel pushers, matching toy boxes, and a stash of bikes and buggies. Going to Glamis these days looks like a RV convention is in town. It used to be you would see a ton of poor folks riding clapped out bikes and hundreds of chicanos riding beat up ATCs. Now this is just my opinion, take it for what it's worth because I'm not posting this to sound like I have all the answers.

Right on the money. The only thing I see differently is this. Dirt bike sales are actually down compared to past years. Also at the MX races, entries are WAY down. Lots of people have been priced out.

[Slow old Fart]

2 strokes will never come back, sorry. Yes people will ride them, build them etc. but the manafacturers won't make them ever again. Making motorbikes is a business, and companies like Honda are in it for the money. 2 strokes just don't equate to as much income, that's the main reason they started making 4 strokes. Take for example the initial cost of a bike now as compared to 10 years ago. the 2 stroke techknowlogy was stagnant and hadn't changed in 15 years, so folks in the market for a new bike couldn't be expected to pay more money each year for basically the same machine. Now look at the aftermarket and the service end of bike sales. A 2 stroke pipe has cost between 150 and 200 dollars for 20 years. With the 4 stokes comes the opertunity for companies to make a new pipe and charge whatever they want for it, it's a whole new market. Is a 4 stroke pipe worth much more than a 2 stroke pipe based on the materials and techknowlogy they have? No, but it's new and improved supposedly, and has no previous pricing levels to compare too, so they charge more. And with service, not only are the machines more complicated forcing folks to take them in for service, but there are many more parts needed for a complete service. The entire industry wins with 4 strokes because the consumer pays more all around the board to own and ride a dirtbike. Just look at the dirtbike industry these days, it's booming, and more consumers are into the scene since the early 70's. And look at the average dirtbike consumer. Instead of middle income folks with pick ups and tents going to the desert, it's folks with 300,000 dollar deisel pushers, matching toy boxes, and a stash of bikes and buggies. Going to Glamis these days looks like a RV convention is in town. It used to be you would see a ton of poor folks riding clapped out bikes and hundreds of chicanos riding beat up ATCs. Now this is just my opinion, take it for what it's worth because I'm not posting this to sound like I have all the answers.

If you don't have any customers you aren't making any money.