4-stroke motor improvment?
4-stroke motor improvment?
I was just thinking: Do you suppose that 4-stroke race motors will keep improving to the point that they will be as durable as, an XR400?
- iggys-amsoil
- Posts: 3602
- Joined: June 1st, 2007, 6:09 pm
- Location: Just North of March Airfield CA
Too many moving parts inside a 4-stroke.....Brands aside team green dominated baja for almost a decade with their kx500 and being as close to the team as I was for all those years I can tell you that sometimes their motors were alot closer to stock than you would think.....In 1992 Honda took their xr600 and punched her out to a 680 just to keep up with the 2 stroke 500 and its 120mph plus top speed.....however that bike never finished the race because around mile marker 300 or so the motor ate itself to death. I remember Dan Ashcraft and all the Honda boys begging Honda to let them race the CR500.....Honda said no, that they wanted to promote the CR as a MX bike and the XR as an off road bike.....Bad choice.
I may be mistaken, and probably am, but I think the late Al Baker rode XR's in the Baja races. Of course, that was a very long time ago and the TT500, CCM and XR's were a novelty.USMC 500 wrote:Too many moving parts inside a 4-stroke.....Brands aside team green dominated baja for almost a decade with their kx500 and being as close to the team as I was for all those years I can tell you that sometimes their motors were alot closer to stock than you would think.....In 1992 Honda took their xr600 and punched her out to a 680 just to keep up with the 2 stroke 500 and its 120mph plus top speed.....however that bike never finished the race because around mile marker 300 or so the motor ate itself to death. I remember Dan Ashcraft and all the Honda boys begging Honda to let them race the CR500.....Honda said no, that they wanted to promote the CR as a MX bike and the XR as an off road bike.....Bad choice.
If you think size doesn't count, you can't count.
Re: 4-stroke motor improvment?
No way. Far too many moving parts. The metallurgy currently utilized is borderline state of the art, for a motorcycle, and even it is subject to failure.B440 wrote:I was just thinking: Do you suppose that 4-stroke race motors will keep improving to the point that they will be as durable as, an XR400?
If you think size doesn't count, you can't count.
Al Baker, Dan Ashcraft, Bruce Ogilvie, Chuck Miller to name a few....Honda's last victory in Baja was in 87.....Team Green showed up in 88 and dominated until they pulled out of racing at the end of 96.....In 97 Johnny Campell and Tim Stabb began the Honda win streak again with the XR600 then the XR650 and then the CRF450 when it came out.sky6709 wrote:I may be mistaken, and probably am, but I think the late Al Baker rode XR's in the Baja races. Of course, that was a very long time ago and the TT500, CCM and XR's were a novelty.USMC 500 wrote:Too many moving parts inside a 4-stroke.....Brands aside team green dominated baja for almost a decade with their kx500 and being as close to the team as I was for all those years I can tell you that sometimes their motors were alot closer to stock than you would think.....In 1992 Honda took their xr600 and punched her out to a 680 just to keep up with the 2 stroke 500 and its 120mph plus top speed.....however that bike never finished the race because around mile marker 300 or so the motor ate itself to death. I remember Dan Ashcraft and all the Honda boys begging Honda to let them race the CR500.....Honda said no, that they wanted to promote the CR as a MX bike and the XR as an off road bike.....Bad choice.
I'm pathetic for knowin this shit dude.........
I see your in Bakes....I'm in Tehachapi....Where do you go riding?
Not pathetic at all. I've been away from the sport for quite some time. I'm relying on memory. Like yourself, I remember a lot of things from the 70s,but probably shouldn't. lol I haven't started riding just yet. My bike is in pieces, but I'm working on it. Where do you ride in Tehachapi?USMC 500 wrote:Al Baker, Dan Ashcraft, Bruce Ogilvie, Chuck Miller to name a few....Honda's last victory in Baja was in 87.....Team Green showed up in 88 and dominated until they pulled out of racing at the end of 96.....In 97 Johnny Campell and Tim Stabb began the Honda win streak again with the XR600 then the XR650 and then the CRF450 when it came out.sky6709 wrote:I may be mistaken, and probably am, but I think the late Al Baker rode XR's in the Baja races. Of course, that was a very long time ago and the TT500, CCM and XR's were a novelty.USMC 500 wrote:Too many moving parts inside a 4-stroke.....Brands aside team green dominated baja for almost a decade with their kx500 and being as close to the team as I was for all those years I can tell you that sometimes their motors were alot closer to stock than you would think.....In 1992 Honda took their xr600 and punched her out to a 680 just to keep up with the 2 stroke 500 and its 120mph plus top speed.....however that bike never finished the race because around mile marker 300 or so the motor ate itself to death. I remember Dan Ashcraft and all the Honda boys begging Honda to let them race the CR500.....Honda said no, that they wanted to promote the CR as a MX bike and the XR as an off road bike.....Bad choice.
I'm pathetic for knowin this shit dude.........
I see your in Bakes....I'm in Tehachapi....Where do you go riding?
If you think size doesn't count, you can't count.
Nowhere really in Tehachapi to ride.....locals don't like it if you ride around here any faster than a walking pace.....I usually head up the grapvine to Gorman or 20 minutes down the mountain from me I have Mojave, and another 30 min north of that I have dove springs, jaw bone......we got some variety around here brother. Let me know when she's put together and we'll go hit up some trails.sky6709 wrote:Not pathetic at all. I've been away from the sport for quite some time. I'm relying on memory. Like yourself, I remember a lot of things from the 70s,but probably shouldn't. lol I haven't started riding just yet. My bike is in pieces, but I'm working on it. Where do you ride in Tehachapi?USMC 500 wrote:Al Baker, Dan Ashcraft, Bruce Ogilvie, Chuck Miller to name a few....Honda's last victory in Baja was in 87.....Team Green showed up in 88 and dominated until they pulled out of racing at the end of 96.....In 97 Johnny Campell and Tim Stabb began the Honda win streak again with the XR600 then the XR650 and then the CRF450 when it came out.sky6709 wrote: I may be mistaken, and probably am, but I think the late Al Baker rode XR's in the Baja races. Of course, that was a very long time ago and the TT500, CCM and XR's were a novelty.
I'm pathetic for knowin this shit dude.........
I see your in Bakes....I'm in Tehachapi....Where do you go riding?
That's what I thought. Most of the property up there is private and the locals are a bunch of fuckin' whiners. California City sure has become a popular place to go. I built a few houses out there, during the building boom. You can ride around Bakersfield, but you have to be an irreverent asshole like me and just not care if it's private or not.USMC 500 wrote:Nowhere really in Tehachapi to ride.....locals don't like it if you ride around here any faster than a walking pace.....I usually head up the grapvine to Gorman or 20 minutes down the mountain from me I have Mojave, and another 30 min north of that I have dove springs, jaw bone......we got some variety around here brother. Let me know when she's put together and we'll go hit up some trails.sky6709 wrote:Not pathetic at all. I've been away from the sport for quite some time. I'm relying on memory. Like yourself, I remember a lot of things from the 70s,but probably shouldn't. lol I haven't started riding just yet. My bike is in pieces, but I'm working on it. Where do you ride in Tehachapi?USMC 500 wrote: Al Baker, Dan Ashcraft, Bruce Ogilvie, Chuck Miller to name a few....Honda's last victory in Baja was in 87.....Team Green showed up in 88 and dominated until they pulled out of racing at the end of 96.....In 97 Johnny Campell and Tim Stabb began the Honda win streak again with the XR600 then the XR650 and then the CRF450 when it came out.
I'm pathetic for knowin this shit dude.........
I see your in Bakes....I'm in Tehachapi....Where do you go riding?
If you think size doesn't count, you can't count.
Probably not the same one,but the guy I'm thinking about certainly deserved a fist sandwich.USMC 500 wrote:Of coure I know Chavez......that boxer dude right?....lolll!!sky6709 wrote:AlisoBob wrote:From the store, look west across the empty field towards the Fire Station. The house your looking at is the house I stayed in.......
Were you good friends with Caesar Chavez? lol
If you think size doesn't count, you can't count.
- 2strokeforever
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: November 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Vernon B.C Canada
they have been refined for ever, and have reached a peak, what else can they do? beryllium pistons or MMCS con rodDo you suppose that 4-stroke race motors will keep improving to the point that they will be as durable as, an XR400?
2 strokes theres still a huge amount of potential waiting to get developed, not just exotic (and expensive) materials
direct injection without a throttle body being the big one
the 450 will have less power and will be harder to start, and will be heavier, but to make up for it it will require more maintenance.
4stroke=dead fish
4stroke=dead fish
This is correct. Now if they can get the politics out of the way, maybe some progress can be made.2strokeforever wrote: 2 strokes theres still a huge amount of potential waiting to get developed, not just exotic (and expensive) materials
direct injection without a throttle body being the big one
The CR500 is an acquired taste. If you don't like it, acquire some taste...