Crank seals and bearings

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » March 23rd, 2011, 5:44 pm

Does anyone know part #'s that cross reference from honda lower end bearings( tranny and crank) to SKF????

oggo69 · Post by **oggo69** » March 24th, 2011, 4:18 am

seanmx57 wrote:Does anyone know part #'s that cross reference from honda lower end bearings( tranny and crank) to SKF????

Sean i have SKF mains for my rebuild they are 63/28( same with any maker) the / dash is important !!

tranny shaft bearings :
1 off : 6203 (same # with any maker)
1 off : 6205 (same number with any maker)
1 off : i will have to check later

last one is the OEM only due to the retainer groove

selector drum :
1 off : 6209 (same # with any maker)
1 off : oem , small needle roller(2.5 rollers are specials) 33x38x8 ?(IIRC)

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » March 26th, 2011, 5:37 am

Some wisdom from oogo69 THANKS

bearings have a universal part # that ALL manufactors use , so for example main crank bearings made by SKF , Koyo , NTN , NSK , FAG will all have the same part # as in 63/28 , honda will use their own part # KZA --------- , basically they wont give away the universal part # so folks buy straight from honda if they dont know how easy and cheaper it is to buy from a bearing stockist or engineering supplies .
i used to pay 3 euro each for wheel bearings for my cr125 , thats about 4 dollars 6004 was the bearing number . honda would easily charge $10+ for each bearing becuase its in a honda bubble wrap packet

when folks say buy OEM bearings that is complete rubbish of course in my opinion , honda dont make bearings and as discussed Koyo & NTN make some of the honda bearings you get as OEM .
SKF are european , french in fact and they are the maket leaders , no question , i use them and buy them in work , the french acutally have this nailed .

back to my post , i listed out bearing numbers that all you need to do is pick up the phone or call into ur local enginnering stockist or bearing supplier and call out these numbers .
when i say special , this is a bearing which is not standard to production ie specially made for honda , unfortunately there is a few bearings that you cannot buy off teh shelf and need to buy OEM , honda would have these licenced and not for joe public .

so from the is above you can get :
crank mains bearings
counter shaft bearings
main shaft bearings
selector drum bearings

i mentioned 2 that are specials and you need to buy OEM and one bearing i will need to get the number of for you .
if you have ur motor aprt check the outer race of any bearing and you will see the bearing number

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » March 26th, 2011, 7:54 am

aparently these are some new style of needle bearings. might be something to look into

http://www.ina.com/content.ina.de/en/pr ... id=3430272

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » March 26th, 2011, 8:11 am

this is some type of hybrid bearing for motorcycle crankshafts. i guess its steel cage with ceramic balls. sounds cool

http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/indu ... 276.515314

oggo69 · Post by **oggo69** » March 26th, 2011, 9:04 am

100hp honda wrote:this is some type of hybrid bearing for motorcycle crankshafts. i guess its steel cage with ceramic balls. sounds cool

http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/indu ... 276.515314

we have similar bearing in a process vaccum pump , 2 stage liquid ring on a VSD ... bearings where prematurely failing , on inspection of the race we found "fluting" basically spark erosion from high frequency electrical currents , bizzare but it happens .
i would consider this type bearing(not full ceramic) for mains . must get a price on them for curiosity .

oggo69 · Post by **oggo69** » March 30th, 2011, 11:52 am

100hp honda wrote:this is some type of hybrid bearing for motorcycle crankshafts. i guess its steel cage with ceramic balls. sounds cool

http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/indu ... 276.515314

will find out in the morning what price these are , and will get a set to run in my engine , i will bring home the vibration analysis kit and get a base line reading once i have it built and running .. for pig iron and all that

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · Post by **Roostius_Maximus** » March 30th, 2011, 11:58 am

the shop i do my dyno runs at just finished a major r+d session on ceramic and other bearings in 2strokes. theyre back to SKF

oggo69 · Post by **oggo69** » March 30th, 2011, 12:03 pm

Roostius_Maximus wrote:the shop i do my dyno runs at just finished a major r+d session on ceramic and other bearings in 2strokes. theyre back to SKF

as in no use adam ?
what was their thoughts or did they say ?

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · Post by **Roostius_Maximus** » March 30th, 2011, 12:08 pm

they pitted, cracked and burnt out a few different kinds of bearings, they wrecked alot of stuff, they were working with goveronment $ on an emissions test maily, the bearings were supposedly going to help, but they failed everything but standard skfs

oggo69 · Post by **oggo69** » March 30th, 2011, 12:44 pm

Roostius_Maximus wrote:they pitted, cracked and burnt out a few different kinds of bearings, they wrecked alot of stuff, they were working with goveronment $ on an emissions test maily, the bearings were supposedly going to help, but they failed everything but standard skfs

interesting

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · Post by **Roostius_Maximus** » March 30th, 2011, 12:54 pm

the bearing companies determined that the 2strokes were not providing the lube needed for the bearings, the 4stroke engines had no problems

oggo69 · Post by **oggo69** » March 30th, 2011, 1:14 pm

Roostius_Maximus wrote:the bearing companies determined that the 2strokes were not providing the lube needed for the bearings, the 4stroke engines had no problems

ah that makes more sense , steelies it is then .

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » March 30th, 2011, 1:23 pm

i have no plans to use ceramic. i just posted the link in case anyone else wanted to give them a shot

.

oggo69 · Post by **oggo69** » March 30th, 2011, 1:48 pm

100hp honda wrote:i have no plans to use ceramic. i just posted the link in case anyone else wanted to give them a shot .

i was going to try the ceramic roller only type , doubt it now , will see how much they are , but my vendor already told me they are FOC

2strokeforever · Post by **2strokeforever** » March 30th, 2011, 11:42 pm

i heard (a rumor) gas gas was using a ceramic big end bearing to be able to recommend 100: to pass emissions
dont know for sure tho

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · Post by **Roostius_Maximus** » March 31st, 2011, 8:54 am

the first thing that failed on 3 of the 4 gas gas bikes my buddy nick had was the 6spd trans, next was crank bearings. a 200, a 250 and a 300, one 250 was just rebuilt when he got it and it lasted til he traded it in.

rsss396 · Post by **rsss396** » March 31st, 2011, 10:42 am

Roostius_Maximus wrote:the first thing that failed on 3 of the 4 gas gas bikes my buddy nick had was the 6spd trans, next was crank bearings. a 200, a 250 and a 300, one 250 was just rebuilt when he got it and it lasted til he traded it in.

did they notice any differance in performance before failure and approx how long did they last hour wise

thanks

oggo69 · Post by **oggo69** » March 31st, 2011, 1:39 pm

oggo69 wrote:
seanmx57 wrote:Does anyone know part #'s that cross reference from honda lower end bearings( tranny and crank) to SKF????
Sean i have SKF mains for my rebuild they are 63/28( same with any maker) the / dash is important !!

tranny shaft bearings :
1 off : 6203 (same # with any maker)
1 off : 6205 (same number with any maker)
1 off : 6203
1 off : OEM # 91001-ML3-873 : is the OEM only due to the retainer groove

selector drum :
1 off : 6209 (same # with any maker)
1 off : oem # 91022-KA4-740

just added the other bearing for the tranny , 2 of the same number is used and the OEM part # for the final bearing .
and gear shift drum added oem part #

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » March 31st, 2011, 4:13 pm

Roostius_Maximus wrote:the shop i do my dyno runs at just finished a major r+d session on ceramic and other bearings in 2strokes. theyre back to SKF

what brand were they using ? the skf hybrids are ceramic rollers. specifically for motorcycle cranks. doesnt say if theyre 2t or 4t. says they enhance wear resistance in poor lube situations. 20:1-32:1 would be plenty of oil.

http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/indu ... 276.515314

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » April 8th, 2011, 1:01 pm

oggo69 wrote:
oggo69 wrote:
seanmx57 wrote:Does anyone know part #'s that cross reference from honda lower end bearings( tranny and crank) to SKF????
Sean i have SKF mains for my rebuild they are 63/28( same with any maker) the / dash is important !!

tranny shaft bearings :
1 off : 6203 (same # with any maker)
1 off : 6205 (same number with any maker)
1 off : 6203
1 off : OEM # 91001-ML3-873 : is the OEM only due to the retainer groove

selector drum :
1 off : 6209 (same # with any maker)
1 off : oem # 91022-KA4-740

just added the other bearing for the tranny , 2 of the same number is used and the OEM part # for the final bearing .
and gear shift drum added oem part #
Thanks. maybe I'm dense but what does the "1 off:" mean??

I have a NTN 6203 in my hand so I get that I can just order a skf 6203.

oggo69 · Post by **oggo69** » April 8th, 2011, 1:05 pm

just means one sean , just how we do take offs on materials

, and ur correct on ordering the 6203

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » April 8th, 2011, 4:03 pm

OK, I figured if that was the case you would have posted 2 off: 6203

thus the confusion

gonna get me some bearins now.

mr2ace · Post by **mr2ace** » April 8th, 2011, 4:54 pm

honda will use their own part # KZA --------- , basically they wont give away the universal part # so folks buy straight from honda if they dont know how easy and cheaper it is to buy from a bearing stockist or engineering supplies .

You can go to Babbitts Online and in the parts breakdown you will
see,not always but most times,the bearing number.

91003-KA4-771 BEARING (63/28-CS30) $25.76
96100-62050-00 BEARING (6205) $10.07

It will also show seal size and bearing size.
Again not always.

oggo69 · Post by **oggo69** » April 9th, 2011, 1:49 am

seanmx57 wrote:OK, I figured if that was the case you would have posted 2 off: 6203

thus the confusion

gonna get me some bearins now.

sean it was my mistake , ur correct , just looked back , the second entry for 6203 was the bearing i had to check and did not know until after my first post ... i added it in and re quoted , i should have done 2 off

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Crank seals and bearings