set up tips for ice ridin needed

dubious01 · Post by **dubious01** » December 24th, 2010, 12:10 am

real MF44 tires are laguna cross, and have very specific angles and stud placement, as well as special screws

dubious01 · Post by **dubious01** » December 24th, 2010, 12:24 am

oh, and I forgot, the real deal will have a cut street tire liner, and min length 1" screws that go into through the dirt tire carcass, and into the liner.
The short screws that only are in the knob, fles far too much and rip the knobs off or just bend over without the added stud support froma second carcass inside the dirt tire.

Makes for a real heavy tire, but TRACTION LIKE YOUR 500 HAS NEVER HAD BEFORE!

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · December 24th, 2010, 4:49 am

seans tires look to have the liner too, theres a screw head flush with the carcase in some pics

Nodge · Post by **Nodge** » December 24th, 2010, 9:16 am

I've had a new set of MF44's in my garage for 2 years now!
I need to get on the ice again!

jarnott71 · Post by **jarnott71** » December 25th, 2010, 5:26 am

if you do plan on racing check the rules ama only runs kold cutter,the canadian tires work better if their is snow on the ice, i know a guy in mi that will ship tires he builds their proven i have won national # 1 ice races on them. they run about $550 a set for kold cutter screws liners tires and well built

dubious01 · Post by **dubious01** » December 25th, 2010, 1:34 pm

for frozen dirt, use trelleborgs, trelli's won't hold a candle to screws on bare ice, but the tungsten carbide tips will have lasted several winters for me,
Just keep them off rocks and pavement...LOL

or make your own trelliborgs with these....
www.gripstuds.com

I like that I could make my own stud pattern, and use my own tire pattern.
Trelli's don't use enough studs for my liking, so the gripstuds are a great alternative

dubious01 · Post by **dubious01** » December 27th, 2010, 8:17 pm

how are the new tires working for ya Sean?

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » December 28th, 2010, 5:26 am

Maybe I'm a bit of a pansy but I won't go on ice until I see people fishing, trucks etc out there. Still waiting and trying to get in touch with the local network to see when they ride. We just got a foot of snow so the bare ice is gone.

Just bought the kids a mini z snowmachine, gotta get a twist throttle on it today and get some registrations for our sled too.

I have a couple rims that have some bad dings in them. I'm considering either pounding it flatter or using a press. Not sure if they would be good enough for ice use afterwords or not. Anyone ever fix a rock ding on a rim?

I have a 2.15 rim, not sure which one to use.

I have a 2.5 rim I could use as well. It's got the heavy duty spokes so I'm thinking that will be better for ice than stock spokes. Do you guys run heavy duty spokes?

Does the wider rim corner better or go into the corners better?

So what's the trick to cornering. Come in hot and use the rear brake to get a drift going or exactly the opposite? All I know is MX.

Do you set up your gearing to top out in 5'th at the end of the straight for oval work?

Do you run oring chains on ice?

swingarm axle all the way forward? or back?

Oversize front rotor?

Gmbond · Post by **Gmbond** » December 28th, 2010, 7:32 am

Set the axle back so there is clearance to the swingarm so it doesn't chew it up. It will likely chew up the mudflap. The tires "grow" at speed due to the weight on the knobs.

As for the rim width when I was racing it was oval track only so the tires were profiled "machined" on an angle before they were studded and the rim width was critical. You had to tell the builder the width you were going to use so he would profile the tire to fit and shape properly.
So I'm not sure about the turn both ways tires... Contact the tire builder if you can maybe?

dubious01 · Post by **dubious01** » December 28th, 2010, 9:43 am

seanmx57 wrote:Maybe I'm a bit of a pansy but I won't go on ice until I see people fishing, trucks etc out there. Still waiting and trying to get in touch with the local network to see when they ride. We just got a foot of snow so the bare ice is gone.

Just bought the kids a mini z snowmachine, gotta get a twist throttle on it today and get some registrations for our sled too.

I have a couple rims that have some bad dings in them. I'm considering either pounding it flatter or using a press. Not sure if they would be good enough for ice use afterwords or not. Anyone ever fix a rock ding on a rim?

I have used a couple crescents to work a dented rim, go slow and don't move it too much at a time. Find out what rim the tire was profiled for. HD spokes are better, the most important part is to keep them tight. The wheel will see torsion loads (traction) a normal tire will never provide.
A wider flatter rim will flatten a tire profile making it behave like a square profile, it will hook better in a straight line, and will have less corner traction. The tire size and shape determins the rim width required.

I have a 2.5 rim I could use as well. It's got the heavy duty spokes so I'm thinking that will be better for ice than stock spokes. Do you guys run heavy duty spokes?

Does the wider rim corner better or go into the corners better?

So what's the trick to cornering. Come in hot and use the rear brake to get a drift going or exactly the opposite? All I know is MX.

Do you set up your gearing to top out in 5'th at the end of the straight for oval work?

I gear all my 500's tall, to use the torque. Since they don't rev as fast as the little bikes, but like to pull, I gear them up.
On the ice I used 3, 4 , 5th gears, sometimes 2nd for the start, but ususally 3rd.

if its a 1/2 mile oval you might use 5th, if its a 1/4 mile oval, you will never see 5th gear. Not with my tall gearing.
The old transmission with the close 5th is better for ice racing IMO, less gap with taller gears.
all of the decelleration will occur before 1/3 of the of the corner ,and most of it before conrner entry. as soon as I had scrubbed off enough speed, I would give it full throttle to bring the rear around and rear steer through the apex, as the corner opens up, reduce your counter steer to bring it straight and drive forward.
Tire pressure, and suspension will affect the way the bike slides and reacts to power. personally I like the suspension stiff, and the tire soft.
Serious guys want the power to the ice, and use regular chains.
rear axle and wheelbase depends on the handling of your bike. If it hooks so hard the bike wants to do 12"0 clock wheelies, then extend it. If the bike is difficult to turn in, and get sliding, shorten it up.
corner speed is what wins races, so that is the most important thing to focus on.
If a 250 out corners you by 10 mph, even a 500 will have a hard time making up for that on the straight, since half the track distance is corner distance. Our sanction doesn't allow front brakes. I would think oversize wouldn't hurt. Those wheels have allot of kinetic energy with all the iron in them.

Do you run oring chains on ice?

swingarm axle all the way forward? or back?

Oversize front rotor?

Iceman · Post by **Iceman** » December 29th, 2010, 10:18 pm

FYI so everyone knows. The man that has built/designed the MF44 tire has nothing to do with MF44 anymore. His website is www.marcelfournier.ca, his tires will not be legal in AMA events.
Uses the lagonacross for 19 rears
Uses a Motoz for the 18 rears (just got my set last week)
He uses 1 1/5 screws in the rear
and 1 1/4 screws in the front

I would use the 2.15 rim, more then likely he used the same size when he built/studding the ones you own. Wider rim may distort the profile.

Oval set up is different the supermot set up
Oval
14:50 - Gearing will vary 4th in the corner and 5th down the straight,
you want it to just tap out at the end of the straight.

We can not run front brakes

Tracks get ruff (semi plush suspension, not supercross suspension, not supermoto suspension)

Supermoto
I prefer the larger front disk
Gearing 15:49
Same oval suspension

Both set ups
I try to run the axel back. (buggered up one swing arm with tire swell at higher speeds, it looked like I had 3/4" room and it still hit)
Check tire pressure constantly (I like 14-15psi in his tires)
Chain guards (top and bottom)
EGT
Silencer clearance
Barkbusters with those mitts over them
Run a old tire tub over the shock spring to keep ice off of the shock
Remove the mudflap
Teather
Lower the suspension as much as possible with out modding it, (keeping it level)

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » January 5th, 2011, 7:26 pm

Roostius_Maximus wrote:seans tires look to have the liner too, theres a screw head flush with the carcase in some pics

2 Linersin the rear wheel, not sure about the front, they ain't messing around.

The builder charley Beatie, recommends a maxxis 80/90/100-20-21 TR4 HD tube for the front wheel. It's a mountain bike tube. There is not much room for a regular tube in the front.

Got the word today the ice is 8" thick. Time to play.

Thanks for the tips guys.

dubious01 · Post by **dubious01** » January 6th, 2011, 11:25 am

8"

Thats all?

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · Post by **Roostius_Maximus** » January 6th, 2011, 12:22 pm

its not that thick here yet and its been dammn cold

jarnott71 · Post by **jarnott71** » January 6th, 2011, 1:07 pm

we got at least 10 in michigan been on the ice for three weeks,4 inches will hold a bike just dont fall

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » January 6th, 2011, 1:59 pm

Well 8" is enough for the fishmen to fish so I can try out Adam's antics

Chain guards (top and bottom) ???? What's a chain guard

EGT ??? HUH?

Silencer clearance ** I'll check that

Barkbusters with those mitts over them ** trying to spoil me.......

Run a old tire tub over the shock spring to keep ice off of the shock ?? Tire tub ??

Remove the mudflap ** OK

Teather ** I'll take your word for it, I have one. Seems like overkill

Lower the suspension as much as possible with out modding it, (keeping it level) ** not a chance, I wanna hit some jumps and air the bitch out.

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · Post by **Roostius_Maximus** » January 6th, 2011, 2:15 pm

just put the tires on and go

Gmbond · Post by **Gmbond** » January 6th, 2011, 2:17 pm

I believe he meant to take an old piece of tire tube and put it over the shock spring. The ice being thrown can and will damage the shaft and seal (no mudflap) not to mention if a stud looses the head it can really damage the shock.

Also check clearance between the silencer and the studs and the chain and studs.

And also

Have a blast... I miss ice racing!!

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » January 6th, 2011, 2:23 pm

Roostius_Maximus wrote:just put the tires on and go

That's what I used to do.

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » January 7th, 2011, 5:48 pm

Anyone have knowledge about how to remove a bad ding out of a rim. I don't want to dedicate a nice set of wheels to playing on the ice. I have a couple wheels with big dents on on lip from smacking a rock.

Do I use heat? BFH (Big Fucking Hammer) ? Big adjustable wrench? Combinations of this stuff? Press?

I don't need it perfect or anything but better than status quo. There is only 1 big ding on this wheel, it's a front rim.

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » January 8th, 2011, 3:49 pm

Called the tire builder today, he built the rear wheel to be used on 2.15 rim.

bearoso gave me a good tip about removing dings from rims, Press it out using a vice. I don't have a press at home.

now I just gotta build a rear wheel and fix the front up a bit.

What do you guys do to stop corrosion on the aluminum on the inside where the tube is. Oil it?

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » January 13th, 2012, 8:32 pm

Anyone running on ice around NH yet?

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · Post by **Roostius_Maximus** » January 13th, 2012, 8:36 pm

i'm hitting the ice SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!!!
just got back from cancun and i gotta ride

2strokeforever · Post by **2strokeforever** » January 13th, 2012, 8:40 pm

definatly get those factory effects temp stickers and you want a winter front,
it cant be good for your cylinder to be 25 degrees and your piston 425+

seanmx57 · Post by **seanmx57** » January 14th, 2012, 5:42 am

What's a "winter front"?

I run a ceramic coating on the dome of the piston, keeps the temp down and the heat in the pipe better.

BannedCR500Riders.com

set up tips for ice ridin needed

ice racing set up