Nikasil/iron . . . . . be realistic !
Nikasil/iron . . . . . be realistic !
Nikasil is fine on 80 - 125 cc race bikes, when every scrap of power is paramount. Who gives a fuck if you lose half a HP to heat transfer on a 500, when we have, if we are gonna be honest with ourselves, more horsepower and torque than we can utilise fully anyway. Moot point ! I'll take the cheaper rebuilds, thanks.
I have 18 bikes ranging from 200cc (03 EC Gasser) to 570cc (10 'Berg) , 1985 to 2010, 2 and 4 strokes, and about 60% of them Nikasil to 40% iron bore, some babied, and some ridden within an inch of their lives. . . with little appreciable difference in reliability/longevity. The life of a bike engine of ANY type has a fucking site more to do with keepin clean air and oil in it, than the type of bore material. Bikes HAVE to wear, it's part of their self preservation mechanism. If they have a spray-chromed bore, they have 'sacrificial' cast rings. Conversely, if they have the softer cast bore, the rings are generally harder chrome type. . . .
They'll all last well if ya just clean the bloody air filter every ride, and chuck in new oil every 1000k's. It costs about 10 bucks guys ! I have an 85 XR600, with 225,000km of dusty Aussie outback riding, including an Australian Safari Rallye, still on it's first oversize (iron )bore !
I have 18 bikes ranging from 200cc (03 EC Gasser) to 570cc (10 'Berg) , 1985 to 2010, 2 and 4 strokes, and about 60% of them Nikasil to 40% iron bore, some babied, and some ridden within an inch of their lives. . . with little appreciable difference in reliability/longevity. The life of a bike engine of ANY type has a fucking site more to do with keepin clean air and oil in it, than the type of bore material. Bikes HAVE to wear, it's part of their self preservation mechanism. If they have a spray-chromed bore, they have 'sacrificial' cast rings. Conversely, if they have the softer cast bore, the rings are generally harder chrome type. . . .
They'll all last well if ya just clean the bloody air filter every ride, and chuck in new oil every 1000k's. It costs about 10 bucks guys ! I have an 85 XR600, with 225,000km of dusty Aussie outback riding, including an Australian Safari Rallye, still on it's first oversize (iron )bore !
- NightBiker07
- Posts: 1942
- Joined: April 16th, 2008, 8:59 pm
- Location: USA
Not really sure what you are ranting about, but nickel/chrome plating lasts longer if you keep up on the rest of the maintenance (piston, rings, and bearings before they break apart and gouge the bore)
the reason the small bores are plated is because they pull insane RPM's and its cheaper to replace the rings and pistons at intervals than the alternative bore job.....it allows the cylinder to last a lot longer.
as for having more power than the members need, and they can lose 50% of their power to heat transfer, i think you are missing the point of owning a 500.....
do i Own a 500? no. I am hunting for the right deal to get into the "club". if i get a lot of work this summer, i will either get one or take another trip this winter.
the reason the small bores are plated is because they pull insane RPM's and its cheaper to replace the rings and pistons at intervals than the alternative bore job.....it allows the cylinder to last a lot longer.
as for having more power than the members need, and they can lose 50% of their power to heat transfer, i think you are missing the point of owning a 500.....
do i Own a 500? no. I am hunting for the right deal to get into the "club". if i get a lot of work this summer, i will either get one or take another trip this winter.
2000 CR250, pipe, filter, Vforce
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
This was a reply to a thread arguing the relative merits of Nikasil and iron lined bores, which I inadvertantly posted in the wrong area, my apologies.
Read carefully , I said lose one half of one horsepower through less efficient heat transfer of iron liner vs Nikasil, not lose half your total HP ! ! !
. . . . and I do own a 500, and I defy anyone to tell me with a straight face that they can ride that sucker at 100% all the time. (Jeff Leisk, don't bother writing, you're the exception !)
As for all that about the bores lasting longer etc etc etc, you've just repeated back what I said. Maintain your bike adequately (rings wearing thru and snapping = fuck all maintenance !) and iron liner vs Nikasil makes no noticable difference to engine life.
Yes, out of context of the original thread, it would have sounded a bit strange. . . . . . .
Read carefully , I said lose one half of one horsepower through less efficient heat transfer of iron liner vs Nikasil, not lose half your total HP ! ! !
. . . . and I do own a 500, and I defy anyone to tell me with a straight face that they can ride that sucker at 100% all the time. (Jeff Leisk, don't bother writing, you're the exception !)
As for all that about the bores lasting longer etc etc etc, you've just repeated back what I said. Maintain your bike adequately (rings wearing thru and snapping = fuck all maintenance !) and iron liner vs Nikasil makes no noticable difference to engine life.
Yes, out of context of the original thread, it would have sounded a bit strange. . . . . . .
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- NightBiker07
- Posts: 1942
- Joined: April 16th, 2008, 8:59 pm
- Location: USA
well, of course it isnt possible to utilize 100% of a bikes power all the time. as soon as you let off the throttle, you arent utilizing power. i would venture to say a real hillclimber would utilize the power 99% of the time. riding in wide open dunes, you could also utilize the power. On a MX track, only a gifted few can.
and if it is a reply to a thread, why didnt you put the post in that thread instead of creating a new one?
and if it is a reply to a thread, why didnt you put the post in that thread instead of creating a new one?
2000 CR250, pipe, filter, Vforce
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
1980 XL80s
1969 Broncco TX-6
Natural selection favors Smart people, so nature selects morons to be slow and dumb for tigers and stuff too eat. But in our modern world there just aren't enough tigers.
NightBiker07 wrote:if it is a reply to a thread, why didnt you put the post in that thread instead of creating a new one IN THE WRONG FORUM?
Fixed it for you NightBiker07.
Jack Schitt
DIE FIRST, worry about it later!
DON'T talk about it, Just DO IT!
When in doubt, GO FLAT OUT!
2001 CR500R1 - SOLD
2007 CR250R7 - SOLD
Wife and Daughter - Left Aug 17 - 2010
Jack Schitt - ??????????????
DIE FIRST, worry about it later!
DON'T talk about it, Just DO IT!
When in doubt, GO FLAT OUT!
2001 CR500R1 - SOLD
2007 CR250R7 - SOLD
Wife and Daughter - Left Aug 17 - 2010
Jack Schitt - ??????????????
- 2strokeforever
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: November 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Vernon B.C Canada
iron<nikasil
ive owned 3 cr 80s and i ended up reboring twice 2 new pistons 3 sets of rings in 1.5 years of riding when i was 10 YO ...
had 2 other 80s nikasil from 12 to 17 YO rodo the piss outa them, put new rings in both once, let my cousin ride it and she held it WIDE OPEN FOR A MILE AND A HALF IN FIRST GEAR streched the conn rod half an inch bearings welded to rod, CAST PISTON FINE, NIKASIL WAS PERFECT iron woulda been scored to shit
keep in mind how high a PERFECTLY JETTED 80 can rev with no load
so when i was 10 the iron bore couldnt hold up ...
17 beat the shit outa the bike killed the bottom end, nikasil held up
ive owned 3 cr 80s and i ended up reboring twice 2 new pistons 3 sets of rings in 1.5 years of riding when i was 10 YO ...
had 2 other 80s nikasil from 12 to 17 YO rodo the piss outa them, put new rings in both once, let my cousin ride it and she held it WIDE OPEN FOR A MILE AND A HALF IN FIRST GEAR streched the conn rod half an inch bearings welded to rod, CAST PISTON FINE, NIKASIL WAS PERFECT iron woulda been scored to shit
keep in mind how high a PERFECTLY JETTED 80 can rev with no load
so when i was 10 the iron bore couldnt hold up ...
17 beat the shit outa the bike killed the bottom end, nikasil held up
the 450 will have less power and will be harder to start, and will be heavier, but to make up for it it will require more maintenance.
4stroke=dead fish
4stroke=dead fish
- Roostius_Maximus
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I've seen 2 500s plated, one on an aluminum sleeve, 1 in cast, both had wiseco pistons, both have been replated after 8 hr MAX because it rolled off the bridge.
2 different coating guys, same situation. The last one came back and there was no chamfer work done in the ports, back it went. Thats alot of fucking arround and $.
It stil hasnt gone back on the bike, actually its here in the shop waiting for me to install it on his shortblock
2 different coating guys, same situation. The last one came back and there was no chamfer work done in the ports, back it went. Thats alot of fucking arround and $.
It stil hasnt gone back on the bike, actually its here in the shop waiting for me to install it on his shortblock
http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore
My CR500 Tech Reference... http://sdrv.ms/1a0CIiz
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My CR500 Tech Reference... http://sdrv.ms/1a0CIiz
MRE Components... http://sdrv.ms/1bs2zhd
- dannygraves
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- 2strokeforever
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